DARTH POWER
Senior Member
Originally posted by Dolos
The fight never displayed that Anakin's lightsaber abilities were impaired. In fact, it literally states that his style had become even more ferocious, and that he implored maneuvers that required even greater skill of Djem So than before.
I never once claimed his "skill" was impaired. But his power in the Force was due to the fear of losing Padme. His fear would make him weaker, and impair the power of his anger as confirmed by the ROTS novel. I can give you extracts if you like.
But the Skywalker who overpowered Dooku let go of all his fear. And just unleashed pure chosen one power.
Sith Anakin was nothing next to Zone Anakin. Where Dooku's Force Powers were a Joke next to Zonakin, Sith Anakin could not even overpower Kenobi in a force push.
Originally posted by Dolos
I concede that perhaps, overall, Anakin was a more skilled in battle than Kenobi, but I maintain that Dooku was the best duelist of the era.
He's very possibly the most "techincally skilled" fencer next to Yoda. Being the Master of the best form for pure fencing.
Originally posted by Dolos
He got the better of Dooku's hubris. Dooku underestimated him and was overpowered, not bettered in swordplay. Yes because whoever wins is always the better duelist. This is why Vitiate trashed Revan and co. You're obviously aware of that being a sort of ridiculous stance and maybe hoping I don't notice it as such?Yes, Skywalker overpowered him. Yes, he wasn't a poor swordsman. Yes, he beat Dooku with a grappling maneuver. Those are the facts. That does not mean he was overall the better duelist. By no means.
What? Of course ZonAkin was a more powerful duelist than Dooku. What kind of crap is this?
Skywalker has consistently stalemated Dooku during the Clone Wars. It's only been Dooku's superior force powers that have given him a slight edge in the all out. But Skywalker was easily his match as a Swordsman.
ZonAkin was Peak Skywalker, so yes he's a more powerful duelist than Dooku. He might not be as "techhnically skilled," but he's not exactly lacking in that department either.
Originally posted by Dolos
If there's any possible way Mace Windu could have bested Dooku without killing, without using TK or some other offensive technique, without leaving the dueling area, without using any object as a projectile, without any armed personnel affecting the course of the battle, without breaking the rules of sparring in any way, etc. than he would have picked it up and won right there upon finding a shatterpoint, yes. But do you see how incredibly limited shatterpoint's effectiveness is here??? Lastly, the biggest variable you're not taking into account, or maybe you are and hoping I don't notice it, is that Mace Windu didn't fully perfect Vapaad until after TPM. This was long before Vapaad made Windu more and more lethal the longer he stayed in battle.
Maybe you need to rehash yourself on the Mace vs Sidious fight, because Mace used shatterpoint to defeat Sidious without killing him. So yes Shatterpoint is useful even if your not "going for the kill."
Firstly give me proof that Vapaad was only perfected after TPM.
Second, it doesn't matter because he's confirmed as Dooku's equal after AOTC.
Originally posted by Dolos
Why you would take one statement as the end all be all, sum total, comparison of all their abilities put together, is beyond me.
Because it's as canon source, which provides evidence. There's lots more evidence- Their sparring matches, the ease with which Dooku bested Sora Bulq and General Grievous, despite Mace struggling against them.
There's lots and lots of evidence which your ignoring. And bringing nothing but pure speculation to the debate yourself.
Originally posted by Dolos
That is why I put Sidious second to Windu between the four. Sidious beat Yoda, Windu beat Sidious, Dooku beat Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan beat Anakin and the list goes on, there are other factors that you're oversimplifying in your unfair analyses.
Context to all those fights is the key. Your analysis is ignoring context, and therefore your the one oversimplifying and making unfair analyses.
Originally posted by Dolos
Again this is an unfair comparison. So you're saying that because it might take longer for Yoda to beat Dooku that Yoda is less powerful, less skilled, and less competent in combat than Anakin overall?No, the only fair conclusion you can get from that fact is that Yoda's less up-close-and-personal Ataru wasn't as quick in ending fights as Anakin's aggressive Djem So style.
Windu beats Anakin faster than he disarmed Palpatine.
What the heck? Who mentioned anything about the amount of time it took to defeat him?
It was how badly Skywalker had Dooku outmatched in power which is they key. Dooku being someone who can put up a half decent fight against Yoda, and is one of the most powerful Jedi/Sith in history. In the elite few in fact. And Skywalker just made all his power and experience and mastery of swordplay into a complete joke.
Originally posted by Dolos
Dooku retreated in AOTC so we can't get anything from that. In their second confrontation on Vjun, Dooku utilized the dark side energies present there to supplement his own power. Despite that fact, Dooku could not win, this confirms that even an amped Dooku cannot beat Yoda, and - culminated with the fact that he retreated during their first duel - Yoda would most definitely beat a regular Dooku.Windu's style was far more lethal, Windu used Force speed, and the longer he fought the more ferocious he became due to the nature of the Vapaad style.
Dark Rendezvous the same source your quoting for Yoda's huge superiority over Dooku is the same source which confims Windu is Dooku's equal at best.
So either accept the whole source or ignore it all. Don't pick and choose as you like.
Windu is not "far more lethal" than Dooku. At most he'd have an edge over him- At Most. But they're basically peers.
