Darth Vader vs. Darth Malgus

Started by Nephthys12 pages

No. Vitiate possessing Kira and Tol Braga both knocked around the HoT and still lost to her. The Barsen'thor was smacked around by the First Son then beat him. You don't need to be actually above someone to hit them with Force powers. Still impressive though.

Could you give a link?

To this?

YouTube video

2.20 Note that the Strike Team Malgus blasted either contained the HoT and the Barsen'thor or Darth Nox and the Emperor's Wrath.

I'm gonna watch it in a little bit. Why is there a possibility of him facing two different teams though?

You can fight him as the Republic or the Empire.

I always enjoyed force pushing Malgus off the ramp.

stupidly, they wanted to stress that he's actually dead, so you just kill him. No pushing or anything.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No. Vitiate possessing Kira and Tol Braga both knocked around the HoT and still lost to her. The Barsen'thor was smacked around by the First Son then beat him. You don't need to be actually above someone to hit them with Force powers. Still impressive though.

I was rather thinking about the clear conflict if we try to put these characters on a power scale.

If Malgus is indeed = Vader, then HoT/Barsen'thor logically shouldn't be at that level, given that they challange Malgus as a duo + two other companions.

If HoT or Barsen'thor are as powerful as Malgus/Vader, they should be able to take him down individually.

But it certainly does not apper so, given the fact that they opt for a 1 vs. 4 duel, and Malgus still gives them a helluva of a fight.

Aren't there some scans of Vader moving extremely fast to deflect turret fire/turbo laser?

So Satele snaps a 1-2meter thick tree and then gives it a little nudge to change the magnitude.

Yoda has effortlessly moved 3600 tons for several seconds.

Lifting some of the rubble than Leneer collapsed on him is more impressive than what he did in that video imo.

Not considering the caliber of the people he was tossing around.

To me it looked like he pushed them a bit, not much else.

So? They're all incredibly good combatants. Some above Malgus.

Wow, you guys have really pushed this thread in the last couple of days.

Some good arguments can be made for both cases, clearly, but what really gets my attention is how Malgus pushed Nox/Emperor's Wrath/Barsen'thor/HoT. I'd say Vader can replicate every other of Malgus' feats [except for lightning] other than that one. That's the most impressive. I'm not sure who to vote for now...

Originally posted by Stigma
I was rather thinking about the clear conflict if we try to put these characters on a power scale.

If Malgus is indeed = Vader, then HoT/Barsen'thor logically shouldn't be at that level, given that they challange Malgus as a duo + two other companions.

If HoT or Barsen'thor are as powerful as Malgus/Vader, they should be able to take him down individually.

But it certainly does not apper so, given the fact that they opt for a 1 vs. 4 duel, and Malgus still gives them a helluva of a fight.

He still lost. Theres no indication that they can't beat him individually. Just because they fought him as a team doesn't mean they needed to. The fact that he put up a good fight only shows that he's somewhat close to them.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Aren't there some scans of Vader moving extremely fast to deflect turret fire/turbo laser?

Vader deflected that firepower. This feat isn't about speed.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Yoda has effortlessly moved 3600 tons for several seconds.

In a medium in which a lone Jedi can solo droid armies. By the way, Yoda may just have steered those spaceships into each other by taking possession of their control mechanisms; looks can be deceiving.

The most notable feats of Yoda that are often cited in literature are as follows:

1. Destroyed a gigantic droid with his Force abilities once during The Clone Wars. (I think this was a Hailfire droid.)

2. Lifted and moved an X-Wing class fighter.

Originally posted by Petrus
I'd say Vader can replicate every other of Malgus' feats [except for lightning] other than that one. That's the most impressive. I'm not sure who to vote for now...

Available evidence suggests that Vader cannot match Malgus; fans of Vader are actually desperate.

- Did Vader blew apart the portion of rubble that fell over him during the collapse of a cathedral?

- Can Vader unleash Force Maelstrom?

Vader may not be able to outduel some of Malgus's opponents, let alone him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So? They're all incredibly good combatants. Some above Malgus.

Sure, but Bulq pushed Mace on his ass, then in turn got smacked by Dooku's lightning. Doesn't mean Dooku would smack Mace around.

Pushing someone isn't really all that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He still lost.

Obviously.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Theres no indication that they can't beat him individually. Just because they fought him as a team doesn't mean they needed to.

True. Nevertheless I have some problems with it. A bit nitpicky, I know.

Since HoT beat Vitiate, the most powerful Sith Lord up to this point, he should be extremely confident in taking on Malgus solo. The other 3 Jedi would only add into Malgus’s humiliation.

Let me try an analogy.

Sidious = Yoda
So… Sidious vs. 2 x Yoda + Fisto + Kolar is a straight-up spite.

You say, Malgus =< HoT / Barsen’thor, am I correct?
If so:
Malgus vs. HoT + Barsen'thor + 2 other decent Jedi should be a straight-up spite… but it’s not. o_O

It seems that either Malgus is more powerful than Vitiate (after all HoT defeats Vitiate solo) or HoT / Barsen’thor are not on a power level they are believed to be.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sure, but Bulq pushed Mace on his ass, then in turn got smacked by Dooku's lightning. Doesn't mean Dooku would smack Mace around.

Pushing someone isn't really all that.

Yeah and Ventress choked out Anakin and Obi-Wan at once, but you better believe that both those feats are brought up when talking about those characters. Because they're extremely good feats. Just like Malgus blasting 2 extremely powerful force users is still incredibly impressive. Like, what, you don't think it shows anything at all? Should we just ignore it?

Oh really, so you don't think Yoda putting Sidious on his ass is all that either huh? Or Sidious blasting his lightsaber out of his hands? I mean, its not really all that, right? I mean ok sure both cases of them blowing through their opponents defenses, but that doesn't really show anything at all, right?

Originally posted by Stigma
True. Nevertheless I have some problems with it. A bit nitpicky, I know.

Since HoT beat Vitiate, the most powerful Sith Lord up to this point, he should be extremely confident in taking on Malgus solo. The other 3 Jedi would only add into Malgus’s humiliation.

Let me try an analogy.

Sidious = Yoda
So… Sidious vs. 2 x Yoda + Fisto + Kolar is a straight-up spite.

You say, Malgus =< HoT / Barsen’thor, am I correct?
If so:
Malgus vs. HoT + Barsen'thor + 2 other decent Jedi should be a straight-up spite… but it’s not. o_O

It seems that either Malgus is more powerful than Vitiate (after all HoT defeats Vitiate solo) or HoT / Barsen’thor are not on a power level they are believed to be.

Ok first up it doesn't need to be the HoT and the Barsen'thor. It could be them or it could be Darth Nox/Emperor's Wrath.

Secondly, it isn't 3 other Jedi. Its the Hero of Tython, the Barsen'thor, the Voidhound (Smuggler, awesome name btw) and the Havoc Squad Commander (Trooper) / Darth Nox, The Emperor's Wrath, The Grand Champion of the Great Hunt (Bounty Hunter) and Cipher 9 (Imperial Agent). Both teams are comprised of 2 Force Using classes and 2 Non-Force using classes. And in the case of the non-Force users the Bounty Hunter is the only one with really good feats.

Thirdly your Sidious comparison isn't correct. Since Windu is = to Sidious and Palps still took him on with Fisto, Kolar and Tiin.

Fourthly my headcanon is:

HoT > Malgus (via beating someone superior to him, Vitiate, who by the way is stated to be more powerful than Malgus in SWTORE)

Barsen'thor = Malgus (Supremely good Force feats. Beat an Ancient Sith Lord amped on the power of hundreds of Jedi Masters. Beat the First Son.)

Darth Nox = Malgus (Has the power of SIX (Theres another one you get on Voss) spirits, 4 of which are Sith Lords. Casually dominated Darth Thanaton.)

The Emperor's Wrath < Malgus (I don't really know anything about him but I've not seen anything that makes me think he's equal to Malgus)

Then of the non-Force users I don't really know. The Havoc Squad Commander is by far the best soldier in the Republic so pretty good? The Smuggler is an incredible fighter but other than that not much to go on? Cipher 9 is the best Imperial Agent in the Empire so I guess good? They beat a Jedi Master at least. And then the Grand Champion has actual great feats in beating Kellian Jarro, a Jedi Master who killed over a hundred veteran Mandalorians in the Sack of Coruscant, Jun Seros, the Orders Battlemaster whose never been defeated before and Darth Tormen, an extremely powerful Sith Lord who once blitzed another Sith in a Kaggath (as described in SWTORE).

Lastly, as to the actual point, extremely skilled combatants can fight people close to them in power without being pwned. This doesn't make them better than them, merely showing that they are very good and can't be taken out that easily, even when they are outmatched. As Malgus was. Ventress has duelled Anakin and Obi-Wan for lengths of time despite not being superior, or maybe even equal to either of them. Obi-Wan fought Maul and Savage Opress to a victory despite being at a disadvantage and not superior to Maul.

I don't use Ventress choking Obi-Wan and Anakin when showcasing her TK, nor do I ever use Sidious disarming Yoda or Yoda Force pushing Sidious. Why would I? Both have done more impressive stuff, like Malgus.