Originally posted by Sinious
Am I missing something than?
This is just my own interpretation but I think the point Oneness is making (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Palpatine was fully committed to the dark side of the Force and had embraced it completely.
As Nephthys pointed out Mace could use Vaapad to channel Palpatine's darkness, effectively using his own power against him.
I think what Oneness was saying was that unlike Palpatine, Vader was not fully committed to the dark side because he still had a spark of Anakin in his spirit, and this "flawed connection" to the dark side would prevent Mace from channeling his own darkness and using it against him.
Does that hep?
Originally posted by chilled monkey
This is just my own interpretation but I think the point Oneness is making (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Palpatine was fully committed to the dark side of the Force and had embraced it completely.As Nephthys pointed out Mace could use Vaapad to channel Palpatine's darkness, effectively using his own power against him.
I think what Oneness was saying was that unlike Palpatine, Vader was not fully committed to the dark side because he still had a spark of Anakin in his spirit, and this "flawed connection" to the dark side would prevent Mace from channeling his own darkness and using it against him.
Does that hep?
Yeah English is not my first language sorry 😮
Thanks for explaining and I think the argument makes sense.
Its a really close fight though so still it could go either way.
Originally posted by SiniousI have no idea. Windu's duels with dark Jedi, fully committed Sith, etc throughout TCW didn't have that effect. It's safe to assume what the book calls "superconducting loop" is not not normal.
Asking cause I don't know.Why was Windu able to do that with Sidious since I take it that he can't with other sith lords?
If I had to guess, three Jedi were dying, Sith feed off of negative emotions, Windu was taking in all of it. It had nothing to do with Sidious being stronger than his usual opponents - Windu had a stronger channel of emotion than normal.
Originally posted by Sinious
Yeah English is not my first language sorry 😮Thanks for explaining and I think the argument makes sense.
Its a really close fight though so still it could go either way.
You're welcome.
No need to apologise. Everyone has times where they don't quite get something and need some explanation. And for someone whose first language isn't English you're doing fine.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
You're welcome.No need to apologise. Everyone has times where they don't quite get something and need some explanation. And for someone whose first language isn't English you're doing fine.
Thanks! 🙂
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Did you read Shatterpoint?
No so not an expert on Windu. My logic worked based on Windu's victory against Palp and the fact that Vader is %80 of Emperor but apparently there is more to it than that.
It's a good novel. Basically, Mace has both mastered a more complete form of Juyo in Vaapad, and has a unique ability known shatterpoint that lets him see weaknesses in combat situations. Pro hint: Vader's got a huge weak point on his chest and face. And in the novel, Windu destroys a Force user with the raw power to rival even Yoda.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It's a good novel. Basically, Mace has both mastered a more complete form of Juyo in Vaapad, and has a unique ability known shatterpoint that lets him see weaknesses in combat situations. Pro hint: Vader's got a huge weak point on his chest and face. And in the novel, Windu destroys a Force user with the raw power to rival even Yoda.
Ah I was always confused with what shatterpoint exactly was. This all gives Windu an upper hand than is it not?
Also I think if Palpatine would have used heavier force skills on Windu and try to finish him quick he would win this but its the classic old Palp, he likes play with his opponent and mess with them for a while. Over confidence back fires I guess.
Originally posted by Sinious
Ah I was always confused with what shatterpoint exactly was. This all gives Windu an upper hand than is it not?Also I think if Palpatine would have used heavier force skills on Windu and try to finish him quick he would win this but its the classic old Palp, he likes play with his opponent and mess with them for a while. Over confidence back fires I guess.
Shatterpoint can be used in a personal combat situation or on a greater scale. For example, Mace sees Dooku as the Shatterpoint of the Confederacy during AotC, while he sees Kar Vastors and Depas, etc. It's not a guaranteed kill, but basically it gives him an intuitive understanding of how to undermine his opponent and I think that's worth something. Mace Windu has been a Council member of the Jedi Order and 2IC since before Anakin was born pretty much, so he has a lot of experience in his favor, as well as brute strength, raw Force power, and Shatterpoint/Vaapad.
In fact, Mace has a better chance to kill Vader than Dooku does.
^
Not really. Both, Dooku and Mace are above Vader in all out. Vader's TK is considered as greater then Dooku's, but Dooku somehow used his skills much better and samrter. With his TK (or TK + lightning sometimes), Dooku was able to defeat Anakin (AOTC), Obi-Wan (ROTS), Asajj Ventress (many times), Quinlan Vos. He also best Sora Bulq, who - as a master of Vaapad - should be harder to defeat with dark powers.
Vader on the other hand had a hard time with... yeah, Dark Woman. He was unable to take clear advantage in skill or power over Obi-Wan Kenobi in ANH (Kenobi was loosing that fight, becacuse of his lack of stamina).
Windu was in fact below Vader's league in the force, but his protects enable him to fought people from Vader's level (or above) equally.
As a duelist, Vader is in Maul's league at best. But I doubt, that he really is. As TCW showed us, Maul's is about equal to Kenobi with sabers.
As Lucas pointed, Kenobi and Anakin in ROTS are above Vader and Ben in AHN.
Vader finally - after great fight - lost to Maul in pure lighstaber combat. He would lost to ROTS Kenobi too. Even unexperienced Luke, was able to hit his shoulder during their duel on Bespin.
Dooku on the other hand, was able to defend himself against Mace, Anakin and Obi-Wan or Yoda.
Mace fought equally with Sidious and Dooku.
If Vader wont be able to overhelm Mace with the force TK, he wont be able to win this duel. Same against Dooku.
Hmm going by TFUII Vader can put up an unbreakable defense for quite a while. Seems like he really mastered Soresu after ROTS.
Given that, and his awesome TK, there's every chance he could fend off Dooku, or even Windu, in Sabers long enough to defeat either of them with his Force TK Powers.
That's going by TFU, and other EU stuff. In the movies Vader doesn't seem to be the best Saber combatant, and Lucas's damn comments only add to that. But then Lucas is always revamping stuff, and he is the one who said Vader is 80% as powerful as Sidious. I doubt Dooku or Windu are more powerful than that.