Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Decimus sucks? Seriously?His peers are Thanaton and Malgus.
Yeah, and Plo Koons peers are Mace Windu and Yoda, doesn't mean he's in their league.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This doesn't proves that Cade is above Malgus or Malgus is inferior to Krayt. Malgus can conjure up protection bubble, making himself virtually immune to a wide-range of external threats. Protection bubble represents highest level of Force based defensive measures, if I am not mistaken.
I never claimed that either Cade or Krayt were above Malgus. All I said was that Krayt can 'match' Malgus. Meaning that I see them as equals.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My assessment is based on how Cade undermined Talon with this application.And yes, Cade got injured in his final clash against Krayt.
Ok.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In the heat of combat, I don't recall anybody managing to touch Malgus with bare hands. In addition, none of Malgus's injuries crippled him. Even in his worst day, he fought and killed two Jedi (one being a powerhouse). Your point is moot.
Aryn Leneer managed to grab his leg and throw him 20 feet in their fight.
I know that none of his injuries crippled. I only mentioned them as ways that Krayt could use the Dark Transfer technique on him.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As of AOTC, Anakin wasn't as powerful as he was at the end of The Clone Wars. His anger wouldn't have made much difference in the early phase of his story arc.
True, but AOTC Anakin still managed to press Dooku in their fight, and again not long afterwards in the Clone Wars movie. I think his anger would have made a difference based on his level at the time already being relatively good.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus would slaughter Obi-Wan.
All-out, yes. But in a contest of pure swordsmanship Kenobi would be a lot of trouble for him, as Zallow was but even moreso.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I know this. However, my point is about martial prowess; how much he improved in this aspect?
Increasing his power would increase his martial prowess, as would a lot more training and experience.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Those Sith warriors weren't mooks but elites. They had proven themselves in combat before they were chosen for Sacking of Coruscant mission.Also, fodder = blitz:
I didn't say that they were mooks. They were elites just like the Imperial Knights were. What I said was that Krayt blized 3 at once, while Zallow and Malgus only took down their opponents in the Sack of Coruscant one at a time. Krayts feat is superior.
And he got more powerful that he was at that point.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Since when is beating Shan a non-factor?
Did I say it was? No, I said that it doesn't put Malgus above Krayt. Krayt would beat her too.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You dodged my analogy.And have Krayt ever broken powerful Force-users with his telepathic abilities during combat situations? I don't think so.
I don't see how your analogy was relevant to what we were talking about.
I don't know. Ask Q99 or Tempest.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, and Plo Koons peers are Mace Windu and Yoda, doesn't mean he's in their league.
The latter 2 were/are great warriors by all accounts. So why not Decimus? Do you have any reason to underestimate him?
Originally posted by Nephthys
I never claimed that either Cade or Krayt were above Malgus. All I said was that Krayt can 'match' Malgus. Meaning that I see them as equals.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Ok.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Aryn Leneer managed to grab his leg and throw him 20 feet in their fight.I know that none of his injuries crippled. I only mentioned them as ways that Krayt could use the Dark Transfer technique on him.
2. But it would useless since none of the injuries that Malgus suffered, crippled him. In-fact, Krayt would end up enraging Malgus with utilization of this talent (should he get the opportunity) and compel him to get in the zone. And when Malgus gets in the zone, its game over for most.
Originally posted by Nephthys
True, but AOTC Anakin still managed to press Dooku in their fight, and again not long afterwards in the Clone Wars movie. I think his anger would have made a difference based on his level at the time already being relatively good.
Originally posted by Nephthys
All-out, yes. But in a contest of pure swordsmanship Kenobi would be a lot of trouble for him, as Zallow was but even moreso.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Increasing his power would increase his martial prowess, as would a lot more training and experience.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't say that they were mooks. They were elites just like the Imperial Knights were. What I said was that Krayt blized 3 at once, while Zallow and Malgus only took down their opponents in the Sack of Coruscant one at a time. Krayts feat is superior.
Also, Zallow blitzed two elite Sith warriors on one occasion:
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: DeceivedMalgus spun into a high, Force-augmented kick that hit Zallow in the chest and sent him flying backward ten meters. Zallow flipped and landed upright in a crouch near two of Malgus's Sith warriors. They lunged for him and Zallow parried one blow, leapt over the second, and spun a rapid circle, cutting down both Sith.
Now, Malgus cut down a duelist of this caliber in a short span of time. Respect his dueling prowess.
Heck, on one occasion, 3 Jedi ganged up on Malgus simultaneously and none was able to hit him.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And he got more powerful that he was at that point.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Did I say it was? No, I said that it doesn't put Malgus above Krayt. Krayt would beat her too.
In just one battle, Satele unleashed a mysterious energy which killed 3 Sith simultaneously, cut a swath through Imperial forces to reach Malgus's position, destroyed gigantic objects weighing hundreds of tons with her telekinetic powers and even prevented a lightsaber strike aimed for her to impale her with bare hands. In another battle, Satele overwhelmed multiple opponents simultaneously with her dueling prowess and disintegrated a blast door with her shatterpoint abilities. In yet another battle, she exploded multiple dangerous droids with a gesture and was noted to be an unbelievably fast and refined warrior by another Force-user. I think that you need to respect her more.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't see how your analogy was relevant to what we were talking about.I don't know. Ask Q99 or Tempest.
Someones chipper today.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You have a point but you do not yet realize the hype behind Decimus. He is counted among the "CHAMPIONS OF BATTLE" in the [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia, a section in which 3 names have been mentioned; Malgus; Thanaton; and Decimus.The latter 2 were/are great warriors by all accounts. So why not Decimus? Do you have any reason to underestimate him?[/b]
I realise that hype, I just do not buy into it as much as you do. Plo Koon could be named a Champion of Battle, its an extremely hyperbolic and vague title. Decimus has little to his name that makes me think he's any more impressive than Koon. Less, probably. At least Koon has frozen a creek.
I have no reason to estimate him highly in the first place.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I disagree! But I accept that he would put up a good fight.
Krayt was THE dominant Force user in his time. Malgus by comparison had plenty of competition and was surpassed by a few. Even though the TOR era had a lot of extremely powerful beings, I don't see Krayt as inferior to someone like Malgus.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
1. Ok, first one is interesting! It shows that how damn good Aryn is, keeping in mind that even Satele does not have matching feat and she is canonically unbelievably fast.2. But it would useless since none of the injuries that Malgus suffered, crippled him. In-fact, Krayt would end up enraging Malgus with utilization of this talent (should he get the opportunity) and compel him to get in the zone. And when Malgus gets in the zone, its game over for most.
I think Leneer is without a doubt Satele's superior based on their duels with Malgus.
What? 😬 Dark Transfer doesn't need the person to be crippled for the attack to work. Read this:
"I got this crazy healing ability. I can see the weak points in you like little broken red lines! I can see where you got wounded recently. Someone smack you during a sparring session? Bet it was Nihl. I could heal that hurt. Pour the Force into the place where the red lines intersect. Or—and here's a new idea—Maybe I could explode that point. Kill you. Interesting idea. Should we try?"
Cade's talking about mere bruises here. Krayt only needs there to be wounds for that to work. And Malgus has plenty of wounds all over his body. Or if it needs to be fresh, he could just make a few bruises. Dark Transfer is seriously OP.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I know but a lot of Force-users can beat AOTC Anakin, IMO.
I know, I would say that anyone truly impressive could. Less could when he's angry imo, but still. But thats what I'm saying. Anyone impressive can beat him. Anyone on the Jedi/Dark Council level for instance. The fact is though that Krayt did that extremely early in his career. Before his turn to the darkside. It serves to demonstrate a good base for his abilities, which vastly increased after that point.
So as Hett he's > Anakin, but as Krayt he'd be >>> Anakin, and as his reborn self he's >>>>> Anakin, which is extremely impressive when even Dooku was only >>> Anakin.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You do realize that Force Mastery makes difference even in lightsaber duels, right?
Of course, but it isn't a deciding factor. Even though he's not especially powerful, Kenobi was able to outduel Maul and Savage together despite being less powerful than either of them, and having less Force Mastery than Maul.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
How good were the Imperial Knights whom Krayt blitzed? Were they battle-hardened?Also, Zallow blitzed two elite Sith warriors on one occasion:
Now, Malgus cut down a duelist of this caliber in a short span of time. Respect his dueling prowess.
Heck, on one occasion, 3 Jedi ganged up on Malgus simultaneously and none was able to hit him.
According to Q99 these were elites. They were the bodyguards for the Emperor after all.
Hmm, I'd say thats on the cusp of a blitz myself. He still had to leap over them to catch them off guard. Compare this to the HoT or Palpatine where they just cuts them down since they're too slow to block their attacks. Thats a true blitz.
I do respect his dueling prowess. I just don't think its superior to Krayts.
But he didn't blitz them, did he?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well, this is a tall claim or you underestimate Satele too much.In just one battle, Satele unleashed a mysterious energy which killed 3 Sith simultaneously, cut a swath through Imperial forces to reach Malgus's position, destroyed gigantic objects weighing hundreds of tons with her telekinetic powers and even prevented a lightsaber strike aimed for her to impale her with bare hands. In another battle, Satele overwhelmed multiple opponents simultaneously with her dueling prowess and disintegrated a blast door with her shatterpoint abilities. In yet another battle, she exploded multiple dangerous droids with a gesture and was noted to be an unbelievably fast and refined warrior by another Force-user. I think that you need to respect her more.
Or you underestimate Krayt.
Krayt defeated Cade, who has feats of a similar scale to Satele and was a Skywalker. His mere presence in the universe made Jacen wet his diapers and go nuts with fear over a future where Krayt ruled the galaxy. He fought as an equal with Luke Skywalker against Abeloth. Even if he was weaker, that he stood shoulder to shoulder with such a giant marks him as impressive.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ok! But your point is useless as well since Krayt's feat of telepathically contacting all Sith in the galaxy (very impressive, I admit) is not relevant for his combat prowess.
I still stand by that its relevant to the scale of his power. I recall you mentioning Vitiate being able to contact people across the galaxy when talking about how powerful he is, I don't see why you shouldn't recognise the same in the case of Krayt.
According to Q99 these were elites. They were the bodyguards for the Emperor after all.
Including the Emperor's cousin, a Fel, and the leader of the bodyguards (who'd demonstrated good sensing skill and did a little telekinesis earlier. And he seemed very confident in his saber skill). And Krayt didn't even have surprise- he was just able to slice them apart immediately even though they were surrounding him.
Mohrgan Fel even went in with a plan for the knights to fight their way out.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I realise that hype, I just do not buy into it as much as you do. Plo Koon could be named a Champion of Battle, its an extremely hyperbolic and vague title. Decimus has little to his name that makes me think he's any more impressive than Koon. Less, probably. At least Koon has frozen a creek.I have no reason to estimate him highly in the first place.
Decimus have been officially recognized as among the champions of Sith which makes difference. And it is mentioned that he could disorient armies with sheer force of his will, which is phenomenal feat for a lone individual. I admit that not much is known about his capabilities thus far but he was deemed worthy for a position in the Dark Council as well, which is another plus point for him.
Even if we assume that Decimus is not as good as the other two, he have comparable hype nonetheless.
Holistically, the list of Sith who have hype on par with that of Decimus, is not long.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Krayt was THE dominant Force user in his time. Malgus by comparison had plenty of competition and was surpassed by a few. Even though the TOR era had a lot of extremely powerful beings, I don't see Krayt as inferior to someone like Malgus.
If you think that Krayt would not be challenged for supremacy in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire, think hard. In-fact, Krayt's rise to power have circumstances attached to it and he was lucky in the sense that he did not had to face the magnitude of cutthroat competition which Sith in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire had to go through.
You cannot just compare Malgus's situation with that of Krayt. Malgus is representative of a Sith sharpened and honed to his utmost via cutthroat mechanics of a Sith Empire which have tested Sith like no other in galactic history.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I think Leneer is without a doubt Satele's superior based on their duels with Malgus.
She was so damn fast that a millisecond appeared to her like a minute, a duration in which she could perform multiple actions. She could react so fast that she just freeze time itself.
Telekinetically, she survived fall from 50 km height, shielding even her companion from death with her remarkable powers. In addition, she demonstrated the capability to shatter structures and even hurled large vehicles like missiles towards her targets with barely an effort.
Furthermore, she possessed senses to perceive her environment with great clarity even on planetary scale. Dammit.
This is why she was able to duel Malgus so effectively. THINK.
Originally posted by Nephthys
What? 😬 Dark Transfer doesn't need the person to be crippled for the attack to work. Read this:"I got this crazy healing ability. I can see the weak points in you like little broken red lines! I can see where you got wounded recently. Someone smack you during a sparring session? Bet it was Nihl. I could heal that hurt. Pour the Force into the place where the red lines intersect. Or—and here's a new idea—Maybe I could explode that point. Kill you. Interesting idea. Should we try?"
Cade's talking about mere bruises here. Krayt only needs there to be wounds for that to work. And Malgus has plenty of wounds all over his body. Or if it needs to be fresh, he could just make a few bruises. Dark Transfer is seriously OP.
My point is that this talent works in circumstantial way; to compromise an opponent with this talent, it is necessary for that opponent to have a weakness which can be exploited on the spot; sever wounds which the opponent had suffered not long ago (key word is "recently"😉. So the key to defeat that opponent with this talent is to reopen those wounds (acquired not long ago), even if they have been healed/medically treated.
Malgus, even in his most heavily injured condition, was able to destroy 2 Jedi in a duel, one of these Jedi was a powerhouse to be precise.
And we are not considering injured Malgus in this contest or are we?
We are considering Emperor Malgus in this contest, no? I don't recall Emperor Malgus suffering any life-threatening injuries prior to acquiring the throne. He is at the height of his power at this point.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I know, I would say that anyone truly impressive could. Less could when he's angry imo, but still. But thats what I'm saying. Anyone impressive can beat him. Anyone on the Jedi/Dark Council level for instance. The fact is though that Krayt did that extremely early in his career. Before his turn to the darkside. It serves to demonstrate a good base for his abilities, which vastly increased after that point.So as Hett he's > Anakin, but as Krayt he'd be >>> Anakin, and as his reborn self he's >>>>> Anakin, which is extremely impressive when even Dooku was only >>> Anakin.
Now want me to give you a snapshot of Malgus's power progression?
Fine:-
Malgus (Apprentice) > Kao Cen Darach (Dooku caliber)
Malgus (Sith Lord) > Satele Shan (Yoda caliber)
Malgus (Emperor) > ?
He acquired such talents that he even taught the mighty Sidious a thing or two about how to hone his Force Mastery to peak levels.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Of course, but it isn't a deciding factor. Even though he's not especially powerful, Kenobi was able to outduel Maul and Savage together despite being less powerful than either of them, and having less Force Mastery than Maul.
Also, do you think that Obi-Wan is comparable of Aryn? He is f***King not.
Originally posted by Nephthys
According to Q99 these were elites. They were the bodyguards for the Emperor after all.Hmm, I'd say thats on the cusp of a blitz myself. He still had to leap over them to catch them off guard. Compare this to the HoT or Palpatine where they just cuts them down since they're too slow to block their attacks. Thats a true blitz.
The Sith warriors who participated in Sacking of Coruscant have history of participating in wars and killing lot of enemies including Jedi. Their is a battle which takes place prior to Sacking of Coruscant in which Sith clashed with Jedi in a very vicious battle. The survivors of this clash were selected to raid the Jedi Temple on Coruscant (Malgus was among these survivors).
Originally posted by Nephthys
I do respect his dueling prowess. I just don't think its superior to Krayts.
Originally posted by Nephthys
But he didn't blitz them, did he?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Or you underestimate Krayt.Krayt defeated Cade, who has feats of a similar scale to Satele and was a Skywalker. His mere presence in the universe made Jacen wet his diapers and go nuts with fear over a future where Krayt ruled the galaxy. He fought as an equal with Luke Skywalker against Abeloth. Even if he was weaker, that he stood shoulder to shoulder with such a giant marks him as impressive.
However, he doesn't compares to paragons of the reconstituted Sith Empire. He is not this damn powerful.
High end holistically? Yes.
And pit Krayt against Abeloth one-on-one and we will see what he can do.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I still stand by that its relevant to the scale of his power. I recall you mentioning Vitiate being able to contact people across the galaxy when talking about how powerful he is, I don't see why you shouldn't recognise the same in the case of Krayt.
Also, Vitiate have so much more going for him. It is not even funny.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
lol
Also, check this analysis: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=562050&pagenumber=4
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Don't be surprised by the fact that several Force-users can compete with Yoda in the mythos. Its not like as if Yoda have broken planets apart with mere thought and he cannot be matched by anyone else.
No, but he is a high force potential individual with 900 years of experience, so it takes a fair amount to convincingly argue someone else as stronger.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Unless Plo Koon have comparable hype, his example is useless to cite as an argument.Decimus have been officially recognized as among the champions of Sith which makes difference. And it is mentioned that he could disorient armies with sheer force of his will, which is phenomenal feat for a lone individual. I admit that not much is known about his capabilities thus far but he was deemed worthy for a position in the Dark Council as well, which is another plus point for him.
Even if we assume that Decimus is not as good as the other two, he have comparable hype nonetheless.
Holistically, the list of Sith who have hype on par with that of Decimus, is not long.
Plo Koon does have hype. Maul considered him one of the greatest swordsmen of the era, he was on the Jedi High Council and he invented the Electric Judgement attack. According to Wookieepedia he could move objects with TK without looking at them and he possessed advanced knowledge of the Alter Environment ability.
Sorry, but I'm not rating Decimus any higher than Koon.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus did attempt to become Sith Emperor and he was almost successful but competition was so damn tough in his era that he got knocked out from the position.If you think that Krayt would not be challenged for supremacy in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire, think hard. In-fact, Krayt's rise to power have circumstances attached to it and he was lucky in the sense that he did not had to face the magnitude of cutthroat competition which Sith in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire had to go through.
You cannot just compare Malgus's situation with that of Krayt. Malgus is representative of a Sith sharpened and honed to his utmost via cutthroat mechanics of a Sith Empire which have tested Sith like no other in galactic history.
Right, he proved to not be up to the task.
I think he would be challenged, but I don't see him doing worse than Malgus did, especially not his reborn self. Krayt has faced challenges from the Jedi and Sith and came out on top to declare himself Emperor. He did not get lucky. He forged his Sith from scratch.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I revisited [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived to learn more about. My god, she have feats that even put Krayt to shame.She was so damn fast that a millisecond appeared to her like a minute, a duration in which she could perform multiple actions. She could react so fast that she just freeze time itself.
Telekinetically, she survived fall from 50 km height, shielding even her companion from death with her remarkable powers. In addition, she demonstrated the capability to shatter structures and even hurled large vehicles like missiles towards her targets with barely an effort.
Furthermore, she possessed senses to perceive her environment with great clarity even on planetary scale. Dammit.
This is why she was able to duel Malgus so effectively. THINK. [/b]
Yeah, she's pretty beastly. And I give mad respect to Malgus for beating her as easily as he did in their second fight.
She also owned 2 Sith Lords when she got pissed off. As I recall she just snatched the lightsaber from the hands of one of them in a great display of dominance.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I think that you misunderstood my point.My point is that this talent works in circumstantial way; to compromise an opponent with this talent, it is necessary for that opponent to have a weakness which can be exploited on the spot; sever wounds which the opponent had suffered not long ago (key word is "recently"😉. So the key to defeat that opponent with this talent is to reopen those wounds (acquired not long ago), even if they have been healed/medically treated.
Malgus, even in his most heavily injured condition, was able to destroy 2 Jedi in a duel, one of these Jedi was a powerhouse to be precise.
And we are not considering injured Malgus in this contest or are we?
We are considering [B]Emperor
Malgus in this contest, no? I don't recall Emperor Malgus suffering any life-threatening injuries prior to acquiring the throne. He is at the height of his power at this point.[/b]
I'm not sure I buy that. Malgus' wounds were such that he needed cybernetics and a breathing apparatus to survive. He never recovered from them. I don't see why the technique couldn't be used on such extensive scars and unhealed wounds.
Hell, if you look here, Krayt uses the technique on Cade when Cade has no actual wounds. The only thing you could say was the Cade was maybe bruised from when Krayt force pushed him earlier. Certainly the wounds do not need to be severe for the technique to work. So I don't think it is nearly as hard to use as you are making it seem.
Even if Malgus' wounds are not suitable for Krayt to use, as shown in the above image, Krayt doesn't need much damage to use the technique of someone. He could easily inflict enough damage to use it on Malgus. He'd only hit Cade once and was able to use Dark Transfer on him, he'd only need to hit Malgus once to do the same.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You will need to narrow down even the list of "truly impressive" individuals who can take Malgus at his prime. Trust me! The list is very small holistically.
We're not talking about people in their prime though. I'm saying that at the weakest we've seen Krayt at, he's superior to AotC Anakin.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Now want me to give you a snapshot of Malgus's power progression?Fine:-
Malgus (Apprentice) > Kao Cen Darach (Dooku caliber)
Malgus (Sith Lord) > Satele Shan (Yoda caliber)
Malgus (Emperor) > ?He acquired such talents that he even taught the mighty Sidious a thing or two about how to hone his Force Mastery to peak levels.
Satele is not Yoda level.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is the deciding factor actually. This is how Bane handled Kas'im.Also, do you think that Obi-Wan is comparable of Aryn? He is f***King not.
True, but even then Bane didn't flat out stomp him. The fight was described as being quite extensive, with Bane being the superior and pushing him back, but not outright demolishing him. Thats all I said about Kenobi vs Malgus, that he would be a tough fight in a duel.
His lightsaber abilities have received a lot more praise than hers.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Bodyguards?The Sith warriors who participated in Sacking of Coruscant have history of participating in wars and killing lot of enemies including Jedi. Their is a battle which takes place prior to Sacking of Coruscant in which Sith clashed with Jedi in a very vicious battle. The survivors of this clash were selected to raid the Jedi Temple on Coruscant (Malgus was among these survivors).
Yes, bodyguards. Your problem?????
Yeah, and these are the bodyguards chosen to guard the freaking Emperor. You think they were anything else than extremely elite warriors?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He is more formidable duelist then Krayt.
So you say.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not getting hit by them with their "combined effort" indicates that he was capable of blitzing them, should he have attempted to do so but he chose to humiliate Jedi in every possible way.
Nope. One of them even parries one of Malgus' attacks. Just because he beat them doesn't mean he could blitz them.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I do no underestimate Krayt. I respect him.However, he doesn't compares to paragons of the reconstituted Sith Empire. He is not this damn powerful.
High end [B]holistically
? Yes.And pit Krayt against Abeloth one-on-one and we will see what he can do. [/b]
Then perhaps you OVERestimate Malgus.
Yes he does. He is every bit as powerful as the most powerful Sith under Vitiate.
Pit Malgus against Abeloth and see what he can do. He has never faced an opponent as powerful as her.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is one of the reasons that I consider Krayt as high end Sith holistically. I have even admitted that he may give some challenge to Malgus but he is not on par with this guy.Also, Vitiate have so much more going for him. It is not even funny.
I'm actually starting to lean towards Krayt myself. He may not be more powerful than Malgus, but I think he can still beat him with the Dark Transfer technique.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Plo Koon does have hype. Maul considered him one of the greatest swordsmen of the era, he was on the Jedi High Council and he invented the Electric Judgement attack. According to Wookieepedia he could move objects with TK without looking at them and he possessed advanced knowledge of the Alter Environment ability.Sorry, but I'm not rating Decimus any higher than Koon.
In addition, being a Jedi High Council member is not the same as thing as being a Dark Council member. Both have different criteria and ascending to Dark Council is relatively much more challenging task. Consult Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia to understand the differences in this regard.
Moving objects with the Force without eye-contact is something that any trained Force-user can do. This feat can be performed through meditative efforts.
I do acknowledge the fact that Plo Koon was decent in the ways of the Force. Unlike many Jedi of his era, he have some feats.
The hype behind Decimus have different dynamics. He is acknowledged as among the greatest warriors of Sith (mentioned along with legendary warriors such as Thanaton and Malgus) from 3rd party perspective and not just some opinion of another individual. Among thousands of Sith, he was among the few who were deemed worthy for ascension to Dark Council in an environment of cutthroat competition. And Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia makes it abundantly clear that the standards for Sith (Lords) in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire are highest in galactic history.
If you cannot or do not wish to understand these differences, I am not going to pursue you further in this regard. Let us drop Decimus from this discussion since he is not relevant anyways. However, do not expect me to regard Decimus like some nobody or average joe. Sorry.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Right, he proved to not be up to the task.
He was very much capable of commanding a Sith Empire with plethora of experience and knowledge of dark side he had accumulated from his past experiences. However, their was so much competition in his time that he found himself outmatched by some others from within the Empire he served. Try to comprehend this.
Only Sith Emperor was able to rule his Sith Empire with iron fist. A lesser Sith could not pull off this feat for long because such were the standards that Sith Emperor had set in his Empire; his Empire have produced some of the most domineering, wisest and powerful Sith in galactic history and competition was cutthroat in it accordingly.
With many (extremely) powerful Sith vying for supremacy, it is nearly impossible for just one to dictate his terms for long. Palpatine understood this fact and therefore kept most of his dark adepts undertrained.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I think he would be challenged, but I don't see him doing worse than Malgus did, especially not his reborn self. Krayt has faced challenges from the Jedi and Sith and came out on top to declare himself Emperor. He did not get lucky. He forged his Sith from scratch.
If you just send reborn Krayt back in time to this Empire, he would be perceived as a threat by many others and would have to contend with the cutthroat competition the likes of he have never experienced before in his original setting. And if he somehow manages to turn some heads, their is not a problem that Sith of this time cannot find a way to solve with their antics.
Here is a thread which explains Krayt's rise to prominence:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t587882.html
The ground realities surrounding Krayt are vastly different from the ground realities surrounding Malgus.
Malgus arrived as a youngling and ascended enough to eventually compete for the greatest position of power in a system designed to test the Sith like no other in galactic history. This is very different from how Krayt orchestrated his rise in absence of such a system. You can thank Vong for his ascension too. Yes, Krayt was talented and showed promise in his time but his rise to prominence have circumstances attached to it, a lot.
If Malgus had been born in another setting, he would have accomplished wonders. Malgus could impress even Sidious; end of argument.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, she's pretty beastly. And I give mad respect to Malgus for beating her as easily as he did in their second fight.She also owned 2 Sith Lords when she got pissed off. As I recall she just snatched the lightsaber from the hands of one of them in a great display of dominance.
She can move and react so fast in a burst of speed that a millisecond seems to pass like a minute to her and she can perform multiple actions in a span of millisecond alone. On top of this, she is a master swordsman. Now try to comprehend how difficult it would be for someone to cope with Aryn's dueling prowess in single combat. No wonder, she managed to make (offensive) physical contact with Malgus during the heat of battle, a feat that no one else managed to pull off before.
Wish you Good luck for trying to prove that Krayt can match Aryn in speed.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not sure I buy that. Malgus' wounds were such that he needed cybernetics and a breathing apparatus to survive. He never recovered from them. I don't see why the technique couldn't be used on such extensive scars and unhealed wounds.
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Third LessonHis breathing sounded like a rasp of wood. His skin stung from burns. A Republic commando had exploded a grenade in his face, and combat with a Jedi witch had damaged his lungs. Lacerations and contusions made a grim mosaic on his flesh.
But he felt no pain. He felt only anger.
Malgus's injuries were life-threatening in medical context but he packed enormous power in the Force, preventing his injuries from crippling him.
Even with life-threatening injuries, Malgus summoned enough strength to defeat seemingly overwhelming odds in a confrontation. On the basis of this entire performance alone, Malgus proved that he is above the likes of Darth Vader, Darth Krayt and dare I say Darth Caedus?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Hell, if you look here, Krayt uses the technique on Cade when Cade has no actual wounds. The only thing you could say was the Cade was maybe bruised from when Krayt force pushed him earlier. Certainly the wounds do not need to be severe for the technique to work. So I don't think it is nearly as hard to use as you are making it seem.Even if Malgus' wounds are not suitable for Krayt to use, as shown in the above image, Krayt doesn't need much damage to use the technique of someone. He could easily inflict enough damage to use it on Malgus. He'd only hit Cade once and was able to use Dark Transfer on him, he'd only need to hit Malgus once to do the same.
As far as I know, Cade used this power to undermine Darth Talon who had been seriously injured not long ago but Cade reopened her freshly healed wounds with this power, incapacitating her in the process.
In addition, it is unlikely for Krayt to put Malgus down with his lightning in the manner as he did to Cade as shown in the screenshot. Malgus is beyond this level of vulnerability with his defensive abilities.
Originally posted by Nephthys
We're not talking about people in their prime though. I'm saying that at the weakest we've seen Krayt at, he's superior to AotC Anakin.
Originally posted by NephthysSatele is not Yoda level.
Originally posted by Nephthys
True, but even then Bane didn't flat out stomp him. The fight was described as being quite extensive, with Bane being the superior and pushing him back, but not outright demolishing him. Thats all I said about Kenobi vs Malgus, that he would be a tough fight in a duel.
Have Kenobi even blitzed (proven) warriors? He haven't. Zallow have. Do the math.
Originally posted by Nephthys
His lightsaber abilities have received a lot more praise than hers.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, bodyguards. Your problem?????Yeah, and these are the bodyguards chosen to guard the freaking Emperor. You think they were anything else than extremely elite warriors?
Yes, I do expect these bodyguards to be well-trained but to expect them to be on par with the Sith who participated in Sacking of Coruscant? You have reached too far with your assumptions now.
The Sith who were dispatched to raid the Jedi Temple on Coruscant were warriors with proven battlefield records (including actual Jedi kills under their belt); they weren't some bodyguards, assassins or individuals roaming freely around in cantinas.
You seem to have no idea about the buildup of events that led to Sacking of Coruscant.
Consult Book of Sith: Secrets of the Dark Side for some information in this regard.
Originally posted by Nephthys
So you say.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nope. One of them even parries one of Malgus' attacks. Just because he beat them doesn't mean he could blitz them.
The act of blitzing is a moment's game. The opportunity to do so is either availed or not.
Every thing is not so black and white, Neph. You from all you at-least know this better.
Authors do not have to spoon-feed feats to you about a character to prove that how bad@ss that character is.
It is apparent from Malgus's victory over Zallow that what the latter is capable off, Malgus is capable of duplicating it or do even better.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Then perhaps you OVERestimate Malgus.Yes he does. He is every bit as powerful as the most powerful Sith under Vitiate.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Pit Malgus against Abeloth and see what he can do. He has never faced an opponent as powerful as her.
From Star Wars: The Old Republic: EncyclopediaFOR MORE THAN THREE DECADES Darth Malgus has played a crucial role in many major imperial victories. He has repeatedly taken enemies by surprise and crushed even the strongest resistance with his unorthodox methods and powerful anger.
Oh, did somebody believed that Malgus's battlefield feats have never been duplicated? Yes, that somebody was the mighty Sidious.
The sheer amount of history that exists before Sidious is enormous in scope and detail. Krayt doesn't have combat history on par with Malgus. Beat it.
Now you would boast that Krayt came after Sidious, he still doesn't have combat history on par with that of Malgus because the ground realities surrounding him are vastly different and he spent most of his time in the shadows (backfooting), learning and plotting.
If Vong had not experimented on Krayt, Jedi Order had not been so blind and Palpatine had not left a platform for him to step on (Fel Empire), Krayt would have been a nobody. Suck it up.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm actually starting to lean towards Krayt myself. He may not be more powerful than Malgus, but I think he can still beat him with the Dark Transfer technique.
1. Bane
2. Krayt
On the whole, I respect you for being open-minded and great debater. However, when you find a favorite, all bets are off.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus demonstrated the capability to evade the offensive moves of 3 Jedi who ganged up on him, so why he cannot blitz them? He have outdueled opponents who have blitzing potential. Common sense.The act of blitzing is a moment's game. The opportunity to do so is either availed or not.
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