Originally posted by Nephthys
God you like to talk. 🙁
Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean like how you assume everyone from the TOR era was a great warrior? Yeah, I don't take that seriously any longer either. 😉
My point is that the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire had set the bar too high for Sith in the mythos. In this setting, those who reached "paragons" status were/are remarkably talented and powerful individuals holistically.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I know all about this. But like it or not the Jedi on the Council are the most powerful Jedi in the Order. Just because they do not have to fight to get on it doesn't diminish them. Jedi do not benefit from such competitive environments. Despite not having that kind of competition, they are still extremely good fighters that are a match for the Sith.
A Jedi does not needs to be a powerhouse to ascend to Jedi High Council. Vacant positions are often filled through voting by other Council members and power is not a deciding factor in this matter. This is why Coleman Trebor (types) can also become members of the Jedi High Council. Jedi wisdom is much more important determinant.
Many Jedi powerhouses have never been Jedi High Council members. Even the likes of Revan have not been.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I did not say he was an average joe. I said that he doesn't deserve to be mentioned next to any truly great Jedi or Sith like you did:"So we can safely assume that Krayt can kill anybody with this technique? Sidious? Luke? Vitiate? Yoda? Plagueis? Marr? Nihilus? Decimus? Revan? Abeloth? The Father? The Son? The Daughter?"
Decimus isn't even in the same ballpark as these people. 😬
Though, I am willing to be more careful next time.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus was the Emperor for less than a day. Its pretty pathetic actually. I expected more from him. Decades spent planning and building up his power base only to get taken out immediately. 😬
I guess that Thanaton is pathetic by Dark Council standards as well since he didn't last a day in it either. 🙄
You need to realize the fact that the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire set the bar too high for Sith in the context of competition for supremacy and survivability. This system was designed to test even extraordinary individuals like no other. This doesn't means that extraordinary individuals didn't achieve success in this Empire; example of Darth Marr is in-front of you..
Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh my god Legend, please stop writing so much. Brevity is the soul of wit! Holy shit, badmouth Malgus and you go ****ing nuts.Krayt didn't receive as much competition because he was the unquestioned ultimate Sith at the time. Not because he sucks. Put Krayt in TOR and he'd be on the Dark Council easily. He's strong and cunning enough to thrive in the TOR era.
Korriban was no longer a Sith-killer place by the time of Brotherhood, let alone Krayt. Heck, even Brotherhood had some standards but it was still a decaying system.
Krayt had to begin from scratch on Korriban and he monopolized things in his favor; train other individuals in the ways of Sith but not to such a degree that they would take down the Master. I recall only one individual who challenged Krayt for supremacy but Krayt was well-prepared to handle such a threat, thanks to tutorship from an ancient powerhouse and assistance from his own followers to try to find ways to uplift him.
This is self-explanatory:
"For generations, the Wyyrloks served you, kept you alive, served as your voice when your physical frailties forced you into stasis! We hid your weakness! What do you know of me? Of my own desires and plans? Nothing! I kept my own counsel and waited!"
Of-course, Krayt did set some standards for the Sith because he wouldn't want mooks either but his monopoly turned out be his undoing and several ancient Sith criticized his policies (Bane included).
Bane set much higher standards for Sith then Krayt ever did but this standard went down the drain after Sidious's demise. Since then, we see some individuals trying to relying on Palpatine's leftovers to achieve supremacy (i.e. Fel Empire). The ground realities of this time were vastly different from the ground realities of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I know Legend. I own the book:"Aryn did not bother to respond. She dwelled in the Force, floated in and on the warm network of lines that connected all things, one to another. Her consciousness expanded to see and feel everything near her. She focused on her perception of the passage of time, first on how it felt as she moved through it, then on spreading it, stretching it, until she could linger in a millisecond as if it were a moment, then a minute. To Zeerid it would appear that she were a blur of motion, existing simultaneously in multiple places. To her, it felt as if the universe around her had stilled. She smiled, seeing the moments that hung before her, each millisecond a long moment in which she could think, in which she could act. The effort taxed her, and she knew she could not maintain it for long."
Its incredibly impressive, but hardly groundbreaking. Plus she seems to be moving faster here than she would in a duel, since she says she can't move this fast for very long. She seems to be pushing herself to her peak, benefiting from being able to deeply concentrate and connect to the Force, which she likely wouldn't be able to do in the heat of battle.
I mean, being able to perform multiple actions in a span of millisecond, is not something that we get to read often. And Aryn wasn't in danger of getting exhausted in a millisecond with this level of speed, she could maintain this level of speed for a reasonable time which would be more then enough to change the game for her.
Also, Aryn outpaced Malgus in speed factor, this is why she didn't end up getting impaled or something. Malgus had to resort to his superior command of the Force to bring her to her knees.
Downplaying capabilities of Malgus's greatest foes and his own performances without merit is not going to work in your favor in a debate with me.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, Malgus could sustain himself well enough and for the last time, yes I FAWKING know it didn't cripple him. Jesus. But his wounds were still extensive and I see no reason why Krayt can't use them to utilise the Dark Transfer technique.
As I have repeatedly pointed out before, this technique works in circumstantial way. It is not an insta-killer.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, you don't. Caedus kept fighting after getting his arm cut off. Pain and injury only made him stronger.
And I don't consider Jaina to be on par with the opposition that Malgus faced on Aldeeran, not even close.
Originally posted by Nephthys
As far as I know the whole fight is this:Then the image I posted. After placing his hand on Cade, Krayt then uses Dark Transfer to kill him then bring him back to life, after which Cade surprises him and kills him. My source is here.
But we don't need any history. You can see for yourself that Cade is not extensively injured. Krayt uses the technique on a person with a hell of a lot less wounds than Malgus has. He can use it on Malgus.
Also, I don't see Cade summoning any protection bubble to prevent the powers of his opponent to undermine him in this contest. Malgus possesses this talent and have history of using it in combat situations to significantly up his safeguard.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, he isn't. Remember this:Cade has superior defensive abilities to Malgus. Yet in the fight above Krayt still smacks him around with his TK.
And no, Cade doesn't have superior defensive abilities then Malgus. The latter also specializes in defensive aspects of the Force, capable of forming a protection bubble around himself which represents highest level of defensive measure in the mythos.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Against a berserk AotC Anakin I highly doubt it's be that easy.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, no not that close.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Unlike Zallow, Kenobi's fighting style is based on defense. It would take more for Malgus to overwhelm Kenobi than it would Zallow.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Kenobi has never faced Sith Warriors you goof. 😬 He's plenty fast.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yet Kenobi is better than them. Kenobi has extremely good lightsaber feats to back it up. You shouldn't underestimate him so much.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Erm.... hello! The bodyguards of the EMPEROR! You don't think the freaking Emperor, the most important person in the Empire, would be protected by the very best of the best they have available? This is like expecting the people guarding Vitiate to not be very good. Um, no. They're the best. Duh. 😬
However, the Sith who participated in Sacking of Coruscant event have relatively superior combat experience and feats under their belt. Those 50 Sith managed to slaughter HUNDREDS of Jedi in this confrontation alone. Do the math.
Originally posted by Nephthys
😬Legend, cut it out with this condescending shit. I know just as much about TOR as you do. I've read Deceived, I have the Encylcopedia, I've watched the holonet and I've played the game a lot more than you and in all of those the Sacking of Coruscant is well documented.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus' dueling ability is less documented than his force abilities. I'd be a bit more sure if he'd received some info on how good of a duelist he was.
He disarmed/killed some of the greatest duelists of the mythos and you have doubts about his dueling prowess?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Because he didn't speedblitz them. Its that simple. Maybe he could, but he didn't. So you can't say that he did.
Originally posted by Nephthys
What, no it isn't. If you can speedblitz someone it doesn't matter about the moment, you can move so much faster than your opponent that you can beat them regardless of the circumstances.
Malgus cut down most Jedi with a move or two.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sure.
Originally posted by NephthysI don't give a shit about Sidious' opinion. Plagueis was well versed in the lore of the Sith and was supremely confident that he was the most powerful Sith to ever live. Are you going to blindly believe his word as well?
Sidious is unlikely to praise many; he have ridiculous standards and have cocky attitude on top of this.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Lmao. Yeah, and if Satele Shan had spent a few minutes digging through the rubble, she could have easily killed Malgus and he'd be a nothing too!
Well, Malgus was buried beneath a mountain of rubble from a rocky formation and it was pretty much obvious to any onlooker that no one would manage to survive after going through such an ordeal unless that guy is a Sith Emperor or The Father or close.
Originally posted by Nephthys
LOLWUT!?I've never even read any of the comics with Krayt in them. I know nothing about him other than what I've read in peoples arguments for him here and some research for feats. 😆
I'm seriously not biased for him, especially against Malgus who I actually know and like somewhat.
Everyone knows that you're the real biased one here anyway. Intrepid was right to laugh. Malgus above Yoda? Serious? Lol!
However, this doesn't clouds my judgment. I prefer to be realistic in my assessments.
You won't ever see me boasting that Luke would beat everyone with a hand tied behind his back or same for Revan or Malgus or whatever.
Also, we all experiment with new ideas. It is a matter of perspective that Yoda is supposed to be superior to any Force-user preceding him. I do not subscribe to this theory, just because an outdated source implies this to be the case. I have my own way to evaluate characters; feats; hype; accolades; surroundings; and other factors.
Malgus, at the height of his power, may pose significant threat to even Sidious as of OT, if not better. Thank you.
Originally posted by Q99
And we feel that in some matters, it does, and that you tend to rate some above where we see the feats as being at.
For example: You rate the Exiles highly and I do so too.
I have openly acknowledged that Krayt's era is among the quality eras of the mythos. However, ground realities associated with him are vastly different from those of the TOR era.
Krayt is certainly among the quality Sith of the mythos, based on his feats and accomplishments. However, he isn't Malgus; he haven't been tested like Malgus; he haven't proven his mettle on the frontlines like Malgus; he haven't disarmed legendary Grand Jedi Masters like Malgus; he haven't been through what Malgus had been through to prove his worth. Their were no circumstances attached to Malgus' rise to prominence.
Yes, Krayt did became very powerful in the end after all idiots around him assisted him to get through his issues. He did beat two impressive opponents at the height of his power and I respect him for this. But I am not blinded by the hype surrounding him.
You pit Krayt against Dooku and I may argue that Krayt can win after a good fight. You pit Krayt against Maul and I may argue that Krayt can beat him too after a good fight. However, their are so many factors that I feel inclined to consider when I evaluate characters holistically.
Reconstituted ancient Sith Empire represented the PRIME of ancients; the epitome of what the Exiles may have desired to accomplish. This you need to understand. From the entire mythos, few would be able to contend with paragons of the ancients.
Just learn a thing or two from Meetra's example. Their is more evidence in her favor for vouching for her chances against elites of other eras then we have for Krayt. Meetra have history of defeating extremely dangerous Sith Lords which is remarkable accomplishment for any Jedi. But when she found herself contending with the paragons of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire, she was outmatched. Such was the level of that Empire.
SW LegendKrayt is certainly among the quality Sith of the mythos, based on his feats and accomplishments. However, he isn't Malgus; he haven't been tested like Malgus;
See, I disagree. Krayt's been tested across three eras, even against a foe beyond any Malgus ever fought (Abeloth). He's also got a greater amount of total experience.
Additionally, it's not just compared to Krayt that I think you rate Malgus and other TOR characters too high. I think you rate them too high compared to clone wars characters like Yoda as well. I don't feel you're underrating my era of specialty, so much as boosting your era above all the others more than is demonstrated.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean, other than in the Clone Wars?
Have he turned the tide of many battles in favor of the Jedi Order during this war?
And what is the quality of the opposition in this war? Lame droids?
Originally posted by Q99
See, I disagree. Krayt's been tested across three eras, even against a foe beyond any Malgus ever fought (Abeloth). He's also got a greater amount of total experience.
Krayt haven't been tested in the ways like Malgus had been on the whole. This is the difference that you fail to understand.
Also, I can make a list of individuals who have fought against Abeloth and survived. Want to regard all of them as peers of Krayt?
Krayt had Luke (at his prime) on his side (an unprecedentedly powerful Jedi) when he confronted Abeloth. In addition, Abeloth had overreached by trying to fight so many Force-users on galactic level which turned out to be her undoing; she wasn't a tactician, she was an idiot.
You should stop wanking Krayt vis-à-vis his part against Abeloth. He isn't special in this respect. Individuals lesser then him survived Abeloth.
And what greater amount of total experience? Like spending time as a prisoner of Vong and hiding in the shadows most of the time? Seriously?
Originally posted by Q99
Additionally, it's not just compared to Krayt that I think you rate Malgus and other TOR characters too high. I think you rate them too high compared to clone wars characters like Yoda as well. I don't feel you're underrating my era of specialty, so much as boosting your era above all the others more than is demonstrated.
Its not "my" era; and I have not authored sourcebooks representing TOR era content. I am presenting a factual picture of this content, problem is that this factual information challenges your beliefs.
Originally posted by Q99
Rather more impressive than blitzing two no-named Sith Warriors.
It is not practical for BIOWARE to expand on the story of every character featured in TOR era. This is a very expensive and tedious task for even a team and the costs have surpassed 200 million USD mark already.
This is the ground reality:-
Did I said that those bodyguards sucked or something? I acknowledge their presumed bad@assry.
However, the Sith who participated in Sacking of Coruscant event have relatively superior combat experience and feats under their belt. Those 50 Sith managed to slaughter HUNDREDS of Jedi in this confrontation alone. Do the math.
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But the story not just ends at this point about those 50 Sith warriors. They have a whole history of combat experience behind this one event. They proved their mettle during the Great Galactic War and qualified for such an important raid on merit.
I disagree Q. I think he is underrating Krayt and the Legacy era. I mean:
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You pit Krayt against Dooku and I may argue that Krayt can win after a good fight. You pit Krayt against Maul and I may argue that Krayt can beat him too after a good fight.
Lol.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Reconstituted ancient Sith Empire represented the PRIME of ancients; the epitome of what the Exiles may have desired to accomplish. This you need to understand. From the entire mythos, few would be able to contend with paragons of the ancients.
You mean paragons like Andeddu? 😉
Originally posted by Nephthys
I disagree Q. I think he is underrating Krayt and the Legacy era. I mean:Lol.
I consider (prime) Krayt to be above the likes of Dooku and Maul.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean paragons like Andeddu? 😉
Ancient Sith reached the height of their power by the time of arrival of Satele Shan. The Sith have come a long way since the time of Andeddu, improving themselves in the process.
All of this is crystal-clear in the sourcebooks you possess.