Darth Krayt vs Darth Malgus

Started by Q9916 pages
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Interesting. Enlighten me with details, if you can.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm pretty sure he learned it from Cade. That was the whole reason he was interested in him as I recall (I read A Legacy comic. No 4 as I recall).

Ok, here's the chain of events of the only two Dark Transfer users there are: Young Cade, during the Massacre of Ossus, had his master Wolf Sazen dying in his arms. Being a Skywalker and thus tremendously powerful, he reached into the darkside and rejected death, pulling Sazen back. Though Cade's power and desperation, this is the first time it's ever been done.

Cut to seven years later. Krayt's implants are getting worse, but he discovers Cade Skywalker and the ability. He manages to snag Cade, but the implants being all tangled up in him for a century, are a more tricky task that requires not just power but precision. He teaches Cade the dark side to give him that precision, but Cade tries to kill Krayt. Krayt beats him down, but Cade's mom manages to rescue him and yoinks Cade away.

Around this time Wyyrlok kills Darth Andeddu and steals his immortality secrets (essence transfer and such), and gives them to Krayt.

Then the Muur talisman surfaces, and Krayt learns that option. He seeks it, and, discovering Muur has Cade, is even more attracted.

He goes to meet with Muur, and Muur initiates healing, but then Krayt gets ambushed by Jedi and Imperial Knights, ends up in an epic duel with Muur's host, overwhelms her enough that Muur takes the driver's seat, the two get into an epic duel- then an Imperial Knight master stabs him in the back of the neck while mid-lightning duel (lightning so strong even the master, caught in the edge, was fatally wounded and required Cade's dark transfer to live). Woops. He then gets tossed off a cliff. Then Wyyrlok blasts him with force lightning to kill him. And he died- even those connected to him in the force could sense nothing, and his biological functions had ceased. Wyyrlok placed the body in stasis to hide this.

Krayt by that point, however, had gleened enough info from Muur's brief healing attempt, and the writing's of Andeddu, and his study of Cade's technique, to not only replicate the technique, but untangle the tricky part of the vong growths, healing himself completely from death and eliminating the symbionts that had held his force power back for so long, as well as gaining clarity from passing through dead, making him more focused than ever.

Cade had similarly improved by creating a light side version. They fought, and Krayt used the move on Cade to kill him, then bringing him back, counting on the passage through death to transform Cade as it did Krayt through the clarify gained by the experience (and it kinda did, just in the wrong direction).

And that's the story of the two Dark Transfer users (minus the half-dozen other times Cade's used it).

Neph
Yeah, I agree with you that the era was likely the pinnacle of Jedi and Sith combat. However, I will never use that as an argument for one individual to be above another or that standing out in that era means that they're superior to standouts of other eras.

Indeed. If one era has a '10' and five '8's, and another era has two '9s', three '8s,' and a bunch 7s and less, then the first era is clearly strong... but the two 9s will still beat anyone in the former era outside the ten.

Also: Let me enter just how much it took to kill Krayt as a toughness feat.

Lightning from an ancient sith lord so powerful it killed a Master standing *next* to Krayt.

Light saber to the back of the neck.

Fall off a tall cliff.

Still capable of moving and talking, so yet more lightning.

but then Krayt gets ambushed by Jedi and Imperial Knights, ends up in an epic duel with Muur's host, overwhelms her enough that Muur takes the driver's seat

That's not how events went at all. Muur was already working with Morne in that fight scene and at no point did Krayt overwhelm her/him.

Originally posted by psmith81992
That's not how events went at all. Muur was already working with Morne in that fight scene and at no point did Krayt overwhelm her/him.

That's exactly what happened. Morne was tapping into Muur before then and not letting him take control, Muur said, 'See how strong Krayt is! You're doomed unless you let me take over!'. Morne refuses. Then he takes over anyway.

I've mentioned your tendency to get factual things wrong in Legacy before...

That's exactly what happened. Morne was tapping into Muur before then and not letting him take control, Muur said, 'See how strong Krayt is! You're doomed unless you let me take over!'. Morne refuses. Then he takes over anyway.

I've mentioned your tendency to get factual things wrong in Legacy before...


And I've mentioned your baseless assertions before. Go ahead, post the scans.

Originally posted by Q99
That's exactly what happened. Morne was tapping into Muur before then and not letting him take control, Muur said, 'See how strong Krayt is! You're doomed unless you let me take over!'. Morne refuses. Then he takes over anyway.

I've mentioned your tendency to get factual things wrong in Legacy before...

Except he is right... You claimed Krayt overwhelmed Morne, that did not happen. Muur merely said that Morne would fall against Krayt given enough time. That's it, Morne herself is not bested or overwhelmed by Krayt alone. Instead she holds Krayt back and, at one point, is battling both Krayt and Maladi.

Originally posted by ares834
Except he is right... You claimed Krayt overwhelmed Morne, that did not happen. Muur merely said that Morne would fall against Krayt given enough time. That's it, Morne herself is not bested or overwhelmed by Krayt alone. Instead she holds Krayt back and, at one point, is battling both Krayt and Maladi.

Muur is literally taunting Morne about how she's being overwhelmed. Maladi only shows up for a second, and Krayt is clearly overpowering Morne even when it's one-on-one and she's drawing on Muur. He's also calling on her to turn and join him, so it's not like he's even trying to kill her, yet the difference in power is evident.

Seriously, your track record on getting things factually wrong is so bad we're generally better off assuming the opposite of what you say.

S W Legend is more accurate than you and he hasn't read the series.

Seriously, your track record on getting things factually wrong is so bad we're generally better off assuming the opposite of what you say.

S W Legend is more accurate than you and he hasn't read the series.


Yet it was you who was corrected by a third party but I enjoyed that rationalization when being called out. Good try.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Yet it was you who was corrected by a third party but I enjoyed that rationalization when being called out. Good try.

You're the guy who didn't know which two proportions of the galaxy was bigger or that Krayt initiated all the events that lead up to his takeover or the proportion of Jedi taken down. When it comes to credibility, you're rather on the short end of the stick.

And I disagree with the third party's interpretation, Krayt was overwhelming Morne. I mean, here is the page right before Muur took over for the last time. She's on the defensive, very much struggling, and Krayt's giving her job offers.

You're the guy who didn't know which two proportions of the galaxy was bigger or that Krayt initiated all the events that lead up to his takeover or the proportion of Jedi taken down. When it comes to credibility, you're rather on the short end of the stick.

You claim I didn't know A, B, and C, yet there is no evidence for it. The only evidence that HAS been confirmed by a 3rd party is that YOU lack knowledge of certain events. So unfortunately, you're not allowed to talk about anyone's credibility, or use the term "we" because "we" is reserved for us, those who judge you. You are by yourself. Understand that and move on.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If you are so sure of Krayt's supremacy then create another thread about Krayt and list down all of his feats in it. I will rip apart all of your arguments in this comparative analysis, I assure you.

Why not just use this thread?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He isn't.

Also, expect my response to one of your arguments in the referred thread soon.

Please don't.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why not just use this thread?

This is the best I have seen in favor of Krayt in this thread:

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Oh, and to add to his accomplishments:

-He's turned two stone pillars into rubble with FL, and has also used FL to kill a group of Yuuzahn Vong warriors instantly.

-He's speedblitzed 3 Imperial Knights while suffering from diminished health--The Imperial Knights are a very selective order and practically all of it's members are elite.

-He's ragdolled both Cade and Nihl. When ragdolling the former, the sheer force of when he pulled him brought down a nearby pillar.

-Basically completely outmatched Cade and Wyyrlok as duelists. These two are basically the respective best Jedi/Sith in the galaxy in this regard sans Krayt, so yeah.

He should be a pretty good match for Malgus. These two have very similar levels of ability.

All of these points have been effectively countered in page 6 of this thread.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Please don't.

I would like to call spade a spade and complete my argument, mate.

Its OK that our opinions diverge in certain aspects of the mythos.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is the best I have seen in favor of Krayt in this thread:

All of these points have been effectively countered in page 6 of this thread.

Well the thread got really off-topic with your dumb Decimus derail. I think the important things are:

-He beat up Cade, a Jedi powerful enough to easily survive a entire base exploding around him.

-Dark Transfer seems to be an instakill move that Malgus has no counter for.

-They are comparable in terms of lightsaber combat, with Krayt actually probably having the edge here. He blitzed those Knights who are elite force users, was a good match for RotS Kenobi and beat AotC Anakin before he vastly improved through 2 large powerups.

-Was able to telepathically contact all Sith in the galaxy, a feat that left Luke Skywalker exhausted after doing something similar.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I would like to call spade a spade and complete my argument, mate.

Its OK that our opinions diverge in certain aspects of the mythos.

Ahhhhghghghghgghghghgghgghghgh!

To be fair, the Krayt faction has not done its job. He might have the edge, but the argument that he's superior because of power unrelated techniques and unspecified increases are hardly convincing.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well the thread got really off-topic with your dumb Decimus derail.

Your failure at recognizing the supremacy of Decimus is a testament to your failure as a Sith apprentice.

As a Sith instructor, it is my responsibility to educate you about the ground realities of the Sith Order.

Originally posted by Nephthys
-He beat up Cade, a Jedi powerful enough to easily survive a entire base exploding around him.

Elaborate please.

This is the not the first time that a Force-user have managed to endure lethal explosions, sometimes even at point-blank range.

Malgus was also very good at defending himself from various forms of external threats. He have tanked explosions, missiles and even tolerated Force powers potent enough to shatter cliffs.

Originally posted by Nephthys
-Dark Transfer seems to be an instakill move that Malgus has no counter for.

It works in circumstantial way actually. What happens is that an individual with fresh wounds can be compromised by this talent. However, proper physical contact is required for this talent to work. I don't think that Malgus would allow Krayt to put a hand on him and not do something about it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
-They are comparable in terms of lightsaber combat, with Krayt actually probably having the edge here. He blitzed those Knights who are elite force users, was a good match for RotS Kenobi and beat AotC Anakin before he vastly improved through 2 large powerups.

- Beating AoTC Anakin is not a big deal.
- Loss to Obi-Wan doesn't favors Krayt's position either.
- This "vast improvement" is how much in the context of martial abilities? Blitizing some Knights?

Ven Zallow cut down some "elite Sith warriors" like fodder too but still lost to Malgus. In addition, Kao have demonstrated superior bladework then any opponent of Krayt and still lost to Malgus. Malgus outdueled even the mighty Satele Shan who could cut a swath through enemy forces and was extremely agile and capable fighter.

Malgus is evidently the superior duelist in this contest.

Originally posted by Nephthys
-Was able to telepathically contact all Sith in the galaxy, a feat that left Luke Skywalker exhausted after doing something similar.

This isn't reflective of his combat prowess.

Analogy: Malgus didn't collapse buildings but he destroyed an opponent who did.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ahhhhghghghghgghghghgghgghghgh!

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your failure at recognizing the supremacy of Decimus is a testament to your failure as a Sith apprentice.

As a Sith instructor, it is my responsibility to educate you about the ground realities of the Sith Order.

Decimus sucks. You call him a stand out of the era, but he's no more standout that Plo Koon or Aayla Secura were in the PT era.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Elaborate please.

This is the not the first time that a Force-user have managed to endure lethal explosions, sometimes even at point-blank range.

Malgus was also very good at defending himself from various forms of external threats. He have tanked explosions, missiles and even tolerated Force powers potent enough to shatter cliffs.

Cade was in a base that self-destructed because he stayed behind to heal a friend. He tanked the explosion and walked out non the worse for ware, blocking the explosion with a Force Shield. I'm sure you can agree thats a bit more impressive than anything Malgus has tanked. Hell, Malcom scarred his face with a explosive round on Alderaan.

Yet Krayt was still more powerful and better in TK than him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It works in circumstantial way actually. What happens is that an individual with fresh wounds can be compromised by this talent. However, proper physical contact is required for this talent to work. I don't think that Malgus would allow Krayt to put a hand on him and not do something about it.

Did Cade has fresh injuries when Krayt used the technique to kill him?

Malgus isn't so good that Krayt couldn't touch him if he wanted to. And Malgus has plenty of injuries Krayt could use.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Beating AoTC Anakin is not a big deal.
- Loss to Obi-Wan doesn't favors Krayt's position either.
- This "vast improvement" is how much in the context of martial abilities? Blitizing some Knights?

-Its still pretty impressive. Even then Anakin was an extremely capable duelist who slightly pressed Dooku. Plus at the time Krayt fought him, Anakin was enraged. And we all know how good Anakin can get when angry.
-That he was that good before he even fell to the darkside does favor his side. In terms pf bladework, Obi-Wan would give Makgus trouble imo.
-He got a lot more powerful, learned from a number of ancient holocron and generally improved tremendously.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ven Zallow cut down some "elite Sith warriors" like fodder too but still lost to Malgus. In addition, Kao have demonstrated superior bladework then any opponent of Krayt and still lost to Malgus. Malgus outdueled even the mighty Satele Shan who could cut a swath through enemy forces and was extremely agile and capable fighter.

Beating Sith Warriors like fodder isn't the same as blitzing 3 of them at once. Blah blah Kao wank. Beating Shan doesn't put him above Krayt.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malgus is evidently the superior duelist in this contest.

Nah.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This isn't reflective of his combat prowess.

[B]Analogy: Malgus didn't collapse buildings but he destroyed an opponent who did.[/b]

Its reflective of power. Also, telepathy can be used in combat. 😛

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Please don't bother. That argument was so dumb.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Decimus sucks. You call him a stand out of the era, but he's no more standout that Plo Koon or Aayla Secura were in the PT era.

Decimus sucks? Seriously?

His peers are Thanaton and Malgus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Cade was in a base that self-destructed because he stayed behind to heal a friend. He tanked the explosion and walked out non the worse for ware, blocking the explosion with a Force Shield. I'm sure you can agree thats a bit more impressive than anything Malgus has tanked. Hell, Malcom scarred his face with a explosive round on Alderaan.

Yet Krayt was still more powerful and better in TK than him.


This doesn't proves that Cade is above Malgus or Malgus is inferior to Krayt. Malgus can conjure up protection bubble, making himself virtually immune to a wide-range of external threats. Protection bubble represents highest level of Force based defensive measures, if I am not mistaken.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Did Cade has fresh injuries when Krayt used the technique to kill him?

My assessment is based on how Cade undermined Talon with this application.

And yes, Cade got injured in his final clash against Krayt.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Malgus isn't so good that Krayt couldn't touch him if he wanted to. And Malgus has plenty of injuries Krayt could use.

In the heat of combat, I don't recall anybody managing to touch Malgus with bare hands. In addition, none of Malgus's injuries crippled him. Even in his worst day, he fought and killed two Jedi (one being a powerhouse). Your point is moot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
-Its still pretty impressive. Even then Anakin was an extremely capable duelist who slightly pressed Dooku. Plus at the time Krayt fought him, Anakin was enraged. And we all know how good Anakin can get when angry.

As of AOTC, Anakin wasn't as powerful as he was at the end of The Clone Wars. His anger wouldn't have made much difference in the early phase of his story arc.

Originally posted by Nephthys
-That he was that good before he even fell to the darkside does favor his side. In terms pf bladework, Obi-Wan would give Makgus trouble imo.

Malgus would slaughter Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
-He got a lot more powerful, learned from a number of ancient holocron and generally improved tremendously.

I know this. However, my point is about martial prowess; how much he improved in this aspect?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Beating Sith Warriors like fodder isn't the same as blitzing 3 of them at once. Blah blah Kao wank.

Those Sith warriors weren't mooks but elites. They had proven themselves in combat before they were chosen for Sacking of Coruscant mission.

Also, fodder = blitz:

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Deceived

Malgus finally spotted Master Zallow ten paces away, whirling, spinning, his green blade a blur of precision and speed. One Sith warrior fell to him, another. Lord Adraas landed before him, trying to take Malgus's kill for himself. Adraas ducked low and slashed at Zallow’s knees. Zallow leapt over the blow and unleashed a blast of energy that sent Adraas skidding on his backside across the hall.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Beating Shan doesn't put him above Krayt.

Since when is beating Shan a non-factor?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah.

He is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its reflective of power. Also, telepathy can be used in combat. 😛

You dodged my analogy.

And have Krayt ever broken powerful Force-users with his telepathic abilities during combat situations? I don't think so.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Please don't bother. That argument was so dumb.

"I will do what I must"

Uh..... having some trouble?