All he did was take over the existing Galactic Empire. The Jedi order wasn't half of what it was when Vitiate was fighting it. While all of that is very impressive, I'm not sure why he would be #2. I'd say Vitiate goes there. He rebuilt the entire sith empire and had the Republic on its ass. Or Revan, whose Civil War left only 100 jedi remaining.
Krayt was a partner in the Empire's return to prominence and all that entails. Obviously it's nothing compared to the magnificent bastardry Palpatine demonstrated, but given the time and resources Vitiate had at his disposal, Krayt's gains were much more impressive and expedient.
Vitiate's gains weren't all that when you consider all that he had at his disposal.
Not quite from scratch, he did have the remnants of Sadow's empire to play with. Neither Vitiate nor Krayt started from ground zero. And in the end, Krayt achieved more or less galactic domination in a fraction of the time it took Vitiate to achieve half the outcome. Thus Krayt is second only to the Emperor, imo.
Revan is up there as well, but he relied on defecting Republic forces and the Star Forge. While the damage he dealt to the Jedi was profound, the rest of his achievements don't come close to matching Palpatine's, which is why I don't put the two on par.
My rough list is:
Palpatine
-large gap-
Krayt
Vitiate
Then, after another gap, you have Dooku, Plagueis, Ragnos, Bane, and Revan duking it out.
What's the difference between Revan taking Republic troops, and Krayt taking Empire troops? Revan did more in 3-5 years than Krayt planned for in 100.
Again, Revan's war left barely 100 jedi alive, or was it less than 100. The Republic was completely fractured as well. That could easily be comparable to Sidious' 20-40 year grand plan no?
Originally posted by psmith81992
No, he created a sith order with tens of thousands
What 'no'? That's exactly what I said- he created a sith order from the ground up. He didn't inherit any of those.
That should be 'yes,' he created a sith order with tens of thousands.
of average force users, so while that's impressive, most of his order sucks.
A lot of them were pretty strong. Some of them were *very* strong.
Like Legend noted, it takes a high-level force user to make a force barrier, and it was a common technique of his senior sith, even ones not in his inner circle. Krayt's elite sith were quite strong.
Even non-elite, Kruhl was considered expendable and he was still strong enough to sneak into Bastion and give Fel a fight.
Of course in a big order there's plenty of rank and file, but that's true of literally every big sith order so I don't know where you're going with that. They had a good number of powerful sith.
Revan brought the republic to its news and almost wiped out the jedi at the same time, all within a 3 year period.
3 years? Funny, that's about the same amount of time it took for Krayt to defeat the Alliance- much bigger than the Republic of the KotoR at that- and reduce them to a nomad fleet, and destroy the majority of the Jedi order, sending the rest into hiding to be hunted down.
Notably, a sizable chunk of the Republic navy was with Revan from the start. As Neph said, the Republic at that point was pretty pants.
Some of them were *very* strong.
3 years? Funny, that's about the same amount of time it took for Krayt to defeat the Alliance- much bigger than the Republic of the KotoR at that- and reduce them to a nomad fleet, and destroy the majority of the Jedi order, sending the rest into hiding to be hunted down.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Some were strong. I count 4, maybe 5 in the entire order.
Krayt, Wyyrlok, Nihl, Talon, Maladi, Havok, Azard, Styfe, Saarai, were the ones highlighted in the first series. Notably three of those weren't even part of the inner circle, and one was still an apprentice.
And then in the next series, we're seeing more of them who weren't highlighted before, like Wredd, Wredd's master... it is entirely clear we have not seen near the whole roster of strong sith in the order, whereever Ania goes she's running into Sith masters not in the prior series. The RPG books also had a strong one in Galaxy of Intrigue called Vurik.
Not to mention, the Sith Troopers weren't exactly weak.
Actually, he never really defeated the alliance, nor the jedi. Seven years after he took over, things were still the same. In 3 years, Revan took his troops, nearly ousted the republic, and nearly wiped out the jedi order. Only Sidious' feat is comparable.
In 3 years, the Republican still had a territory of their own, and more Jedi council members than Krayt left standing, the Jedi were an active if wounded force until the Triumvirate hit.
'Nearly' ousted the Republic is not as much as Krayt did, and both of them were engaged in a Jedi purge that inflicted very heavy casualties.
Are you not familiar with Legacy? Because arguments about how Revan conquering a good chunk but not all of the Republic 'only being comparable to Sidious' makes me think not.
Originally posted by psmith81992
What's the difference between Revan taking Republic troops, and Krayt taking Empire troops? Revan did more in 3-5 years than Krayt planned for in 100.
Krayt conquered the galaxy though. Revan only got about a third of it.
Anyway, no doubt that Revan's success is impressive. I'd say he was probably the third most successful Sith after Krayt and Sidious.
Krayt, Wyyrlok, Nihl, Talon, Maladi, Havok, Azard, Styfe, Saarai,
And then in the next series, we're seeing more of them who weren't highlighted before, like Wredd, Wredd's master... it is entirely clear we have not seen near the whole roster of strong sith in the order, whereever Ania goes she's running into Sith masters not in the prior series. The RPG books also had a strong one in Galaxy of Intrigue called Vurik.We have no real information on the Sith Troopers other than shitty writing. I'm not sure if they can be considered when you're discussing Krayt's Sith Empire.Not to mention, the Sith Troopers weren't exactly weak.
In 3 years, the Republican still had a territory of their own, and more Jedi council members than Krayt left standing, the Jedi were an active if wounded force until the Triumvirate hit.
'Nearly' ousted the Republic is not as much as Krayt did, and both of them were engaged in a Jedi purge that inflicted very heavy casualties.
Are you not familiar with Legacy? Because arguments about how Revan conquering a good chunk but not all of the Republic 'only being comparable to Sidious' makes me think not.
Krayt conquered the galaxy though. Revan only got about a third of it.
Sure he did. Krayt manipulated the Empire into conquering the galaxy and then made himself Emperor.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Ahem, Vitiate?
Vitiate falls behind all three. He ended up only conquering half the galaxy.
Sidious and Krayt both conquered more.
Revan, meanwhile, conquered almost as much and nearly destroyed the Jedi Order.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Making yourself emperor doesn't mean you conquered the galaxy. Sidious conquered the galaxy. Revan got closer than anyone else. Krayt was an emperor fighting against both the republic and parts of the empire.
Except, the Empire pretty much ruled the entire galaxy at the time.
Originally posted by psmith81992
What's the difference between Revan taking Republic troops, and Krayt taking Empire troops?
As ares pointed out, Krayt ultimately achieved some measure of galactic domination whereas Revan only ever managed to reign over a third of the settled galaxy.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Revan did more in 3-5 years than Krayt planned for in 100.
No doubt. But Krayt more or less succeeded whereas Revan was taken out before he could achieve anything approaching galactic domination.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Again, Revan's war left barely 100 jedi alive, or was it less than 100. The Republic was completely fractured as well. That could easily be comparable to Sidious' 20-40 year grand plan no?
Not at all.
Palpatine was pretty much the author of the circumstances that led to his rule. He personally arranged for the ascent of players like Nute Gunray, Padme Amidala, Poggle the Lesser, etc. He personally orchestrated the rise of both the Confederacy and the Republic army. Then he pit the two against each other, micromanaging a galactic war to an absurd degree beneath the noses of the Jedi and all who might oppose him. At the end, the Senate applauded him when he became Emperor.
That level of chessmastering magnificent bastardry is lightyears ahead of any other Sith.