Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
I wouldn't call Tavion a pretender. The Sith isn't a exclusive 'club', it is a belief, and Tavion has a right to call herself such.
Tavion is both a fledgling and not inducted into the Sith Order that descended from the likes of Ajunta Pall. That died with Sidious.
Oh by the way with regards to power if you want to know why Desann, Tavion and Alora were zo szpecial read this:
Hethrir also sought the Valley of the Jedi, which had been revealed to exist by an ally, High Inquisitor Antinnis Tremayne. He tasked Desann with locating it, which he did by tricking the Jedi Knight Kyle Katarn into revealing its location. Desann led his students to the psychic bloodstain remaining at the site, quadrupling their innate powers with the leftover energy from the freed Jedi sprits that were once trapped there. These empowered Empire Youths came to be called the Reborn.
So Tavion was a Darthomirian Empire Youth, part of a pact with mother Talzen and the Empire presumably.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Tavion is both a fledgling and not inducted into the Sith Order that descended from the likes of Ajunta Pall. That died with Sidious.
Well, til the One Sith revival (which worked off XoXaan's trainings, who learned from Pall). But yes, the post-Palpatine darksiders were pretty much working off scraps.
Originally posted by Allankles
Tavion had a path or right of succession. She was an acolyte of Hethrir, who himself was an apprentice of Vaders.
But Hethrir was never a proper sith apprentice, meaning he never got the best of the Sith training.
Sorta like Ventress and Opress. They were 'apprentices' of Sith, but they were never trained to be a 'Sith Apprentice' in the rule of two sense, never brought into the inner secrets of the order.
Originally posted by Allankles
Exactly, Kun didn't struggle, making it less impressive.
So by that logic, Palpatine didn't struggle when he mowed down Horn-head, Spike-head and Squidly-didly, making it less impressive.
Originally posted by Allankles
Before Asajj met Dooku she was already an acolyte of the Sith in her learning and mastery of the dark side.
No, Asajj was never a Sith acolyte. Her "learning and mastery of the dark side" make her a Dark Jedi.
Knowledge of the dark side does not make one a Sith. Sith have specific lore, teachings and techniques that set them apart from "regular" Dark Jedi.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Exactly. Just cuz you're a superhero, doesn't mean you're in the Justice League. The Sith have a code and specific teachings. You can't just say you're a Sith and actually be one (coughCaeduscough).
Well said.
In Caedus's case I suppose we could be generous and say, "well he was taught by Lumiya who was taught by Vader" but yeah, his claim to Sithhood is shaky at best.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
And Ventress was properly a "Dark Jedi" before Dooku took her in. I recall this being the term used to describe her when she first appeared.
Well, the first Dark Lords of the Sith were Dark Jedi. Krayt's master Xoxaan was also a Dark Jedi before overthrowing the original Sith Lords.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Well said.In Caedus's case I suppose we [B]could
be generous and say, "well he was taught by Lumiya who was taught by Vader" but yeah, his claim to Sithhood is shaky at best. [/B]
He was already a Jedi, he had no need to be a Sith. Too bad Kor wasn't there to talk him down.
Anyone can be a Sith, just study the Sith arts and practice them, that's how the first Dark Jedi became Dark Lords of Sith. They were basically Jedi sorceror/scientists/military men who sought new ways of manipulating the force and the Sith Empire provided them with knowledge of the Sith Magic and its alchemy - basically middle road variations to force manipulation and mastery.
Originally posted by Q99
Well, til the One Sith revival (which worked off XoXaan's trainings, who learned from Pall). But yes, the post-Palpatine darksiders were pretty much working off scraps.But Hethrir was never a proper sith apprentice, meaning he never got the best of the Sith training.
Sorta like Ventress and Opress. They were 'apprentices' of Sith, but they were never trained to be a 'Sith Apprentice' in the rule of two sense, never brought into the inner secrets of the order.
Uuh!He had the resources to gather Sith teachings, and besides Hethrir was probably not big on titles that compromised his standing within the Empire, Sith were illegalized throughout the galaxy post ROTJ, so being called a Jedi Master to add to his Procurator title would have served him better, than admitting to any DLOTS ambitions or leanings.
Originally posted by Allankles
No. Because Kor knows him better than vice versa.A Jedi uses the force for [B]knowledge
and defense. - Yoda [/B]
That's a stupid generalization.
"Size matters not" - Yoda.
Yoda doesn't simply crush Sidious with all the pods in the Senate chamber at once.
Maul is an expert swordsman, with a lifetime of Sith training and assassination, and has killed master swordsmen in the form of Qui-Gon Jinn and Anoon Bondara, not even counting his CW form which seems weaker.
You haven't demonstrated how Korr is better.
For one he's a master of the art of war and bears the moral law with him in every fight, but a few.
He's actually the bigger man, as in defensively he looks after himself better and even his opponent.
He has had extensive training in lightsaber combat as well reflecting the natural talent in swordsmanship that has defined many a strong Jedi fighter.
He has had more extensive experience than Bondara or even Obi Wan with persecuting Sith criminals, so...
Basically, Maul ain't nothin' new. - Kor
Originally posted by Allankles
For one he's a master of the art of war and bears the moral law with him in every fight, but a few.
1. Substantiate "master of the art of war". Sun Tzu and Clausewitz are masters too, and Maul would eat them alive.
2. Moral law means jack. Mother Theresa cannot defeat Maul in combat.
He's actually the bigger man, as in defensively he looks after himself better and even his opponent.
Substantiate this with facts and not baseless assertions fueled by bias.
He has had extensive training in lightsaber combat as well reflecting the natural talent in swordsmanship that has defined many a strong Jedi fighter.
Maul had much more experience and has better kills under his belt.
Quantify Jaden's skill using an actual source and not your own grandiose generalizations.
He has had more extensive experience than Bondara or even Obi Wan with persecuting Sith criminals, so...Basically, Maul ain't nothin' new. - Kor
1. Obi-Wan, as of RotS, has fought more Dark Jedi and Sith of note. This seems kinda bizarre to even have to bring up to you.
2. Anoon Bondara was the premier Jedi swordsman before Cin Drallig, possibly the previous Battlemaster given the year he died Cin gained the position, and virtually peerless except for the likes of Mace and Yoda, and that's about it. Basically, the only two people who could consistently beat him could take on Maul's master. Maul's skill was so evident Anoon knew he couldn't win and had to try to sacrifice himself in a desperate chance to kill the Sith Lord.
"Not make up shit, you should, hmm? Use sources and context!" - Yoda.