Combat speed

Started by Q9922 pages
abhilegend
And it has been debunked by better scans and not by biased writers who don't nerf characters by their own admission.

"Better scans" in your book often includes ones where if you read the rest of the scene, Wonder Woman does a fair amount in return as well, and a fight where both sides get in their licks doesn't fit your precious point. "Better," notably, relies on willful blindness, while the scans you say they disprove after often from the very same writers, and others who are not just some random one but major writers in major books.

And 'biased writers' in your book seems to be "everyone who writes a WW vs SM fight." Or just "most of the writers who writes a WW fight against someone strong," because she performs well against most high-heralds and mid-heralds she's fought.

We've got a ton of major writers write her close to Superman and other high heralds, including in multiple events. Your counter-excuse? One writer who didn't actually write WW vs Superman but rather made a comparison of their powers, supposedly made a comment of bias in an article you can't produce and no-one else here has seen, and his supposed 'bias' passed editorial muster just fine. But Perez, Rucka, Jimenez, everyone else, you don't even have that.

It says a lot that you spend a lot of time attacking the writers, because the events themselves show plenty of high showings, and the only way you can get your conclusion is discrediting them.

If you had an argument, you wouldn't spend so much time relying on claiming that 1/10th of the writers involved are biased (probably not, but...), or relying on trying to say the bulk of the material of her conflicts against strong foes 'don't count.'

Originally posted by jaxthejester
On a side note, JBL- you sir, are a champ debater.

Hat's off to you my friend. Both for content and demeanor.

And you sir are a champ debater yourself. Thank you.

Originally posted by carver9
That's a human...of course it would make them stronger since the Symbiote comes with super strength, even outside of having a host. The Symbiote latching on to another Super Human, it does nothing for them. If someone like Sam, Stilt or Paramiac come in here and say that I'm wrong (Spiderman experts)...I am sticking by this.

Except it has amped already metahuman characters before. I'm not a spidey expert but I've read my fair share of spidey, so take it from me you wolverine lover.
Originally posted by jaxthejester
[B]"Shut up, seriously. You're worse than carver at this point. "Bro, he can fire lazorz, he is lightspeed combat mode", "Superman is slow because he doesn't blitzes, wait Gladiator and surfer are awesome because they never blitz at all."

So... I call you out for acting like the kind of person your favorite character would slap the arrogance out of, and you reply by-

A). Compare me to another poster while insulting them at the same time.
B). Lashing out with further childish antics, of the exact nature I called you out for.
C). Throwing in a "blitz" of personal character insults to top it off.

Yep. You sure showed me. Way to go, slugger. Clark would walk right up and bro-hug you for your sportsmanship and conduct.

...have you even considered joining the Thanos fan-click?

Because you are truly not worthy of calling yourself a Superman Fan.
Like I said- pay attention to your archetypes.

"What a waste of time."

Yes. Yes you are. [/B]


What, are you gonna cry? A stupid argument is stupid, no matter how politely it is presented. I've no patience to indulge in this kind of debate anymore.

Also again shut up with this "not suitable to be a fan" cliche. Who are you to begin with?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Let me interrupt for a second.
Um no...

Carry on.

Umm, yes.

😛

Ah look who's here. Have you found scans of white martians knocking out everyone in JLA yet?

Originally posted by Q99
"Better scans" in your book often includes ones where if you read the rest of the scene, Wonder Woman does a fair amount in return as well, and a fight where both sides get in their licks doesn't fit your precious point.
When superman isn't using his speed you mean? When he did, he effortlessly stopped her attacks and was bitchslapping her at superspeed before she could react.
"Better," notably, relies on willful blindness, while the scans you say they disprove after often from the very same writers, and others who are not just some random one but major writers in major books.
Like who Mr "Me am right, you am wrong and I've to produce no scans or proof."? You are parroting your previous stance that I'm ignoring something, what am I ignoring pray tell?

And 'biased writers' in your book seems to be "everyone who writes a WW vs SM fight.
No, just the one who admitted that he was nerfing superman.
" Or just "most of the writers who writes a WW fight against someone strong," because she performs well against most high-heralds and mid-heralds she's fought.
Like getting oneshotted by martians regularly?

We've got a ton of major writers write her close to Superman and other high heralds, including in multiple events.
Name these writers and I would show you just how far above superman is to wonder woman.
Your counter-excuse?
Excuse? Hahahaha.
One writer who didn't actually write WW vs Superman but rather made a comparison of their powers, supposedly made a comment of bias in an article you can't produce and no-one else here has seen, and his supposed 'bias' passed editorial muster just fine.
I can't produce the article? What are you, blind or something? I've posted that several times. But hey tenth time is the charm.

You've written Superman before, in "Justice League Unlimited" and recently in the "Crisis on Two Earths" film. How does this version of Superman compare to the others you've written previously?

Mcduffie: One of the things about writing Superman in "Justice League" is that if you write him at his full potential, then there's no need for the rest of the Justice League. So, you always have to sort of power him down or kind of Worf-Effect him so he doesn't solve the entire problem in four seconds. You have to adjust him in a way that makes him less effective than he normally is. That's probably true for every member in a team book who has their own solo thing, but it's really obvious with Superman. In this case, one thing, we're starting off with a Superman who is much more powerful than he's ever been, which is fun as well. I generally have to write a Superman who is much weaker than he usually is. The problem of having him in a story that's not a finite one-off like this is, is that if Superman is at full power, he just fixes everything and there's nothing to do next month.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=30914

How many time you're going to ignore everything that doesn't suits your agenda? And calling me ignoring something?

But Perez, Rucka, Jimenez, everyone else, you don't even have that.
Perez had done nothing that even tells she is close to superman. Jiminez had her saying that he would kill her in three strikes. Anybody else?

It says a lot that you spend a lot of time attacking the writers, because the events themselves show plenty of high showings, and the only way you can get your conclusion is discrediting them.
I haven't attacked any writer save mcduffie, but its cute coming from you.

If you had an argument, you wouldn't spend so much time relying on claiming that 1/10th of the writers involved are biased (probably not, but...), or relying on trying to say the bulk of the material of her conflicts against strong foes 'don't count.'
I've already won this argument many times, Q. You're just being a sore loser now. What the bulk of her conflicts say about her position Q? Losing to martians 5 times isn't going to place you in high herald tier.

I can show scans and twist them also. Superman cannot react to lobos speeding fists......
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1076498-supeslobo23hqjy0.jpg

ouch

Originally posted by JBL
I can show scans and twist them also. Superman cannot react to lobos speeding fists......
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1076498-supeslobo23hqjy0.jpg

You twist scans like it's your job.

Superman can't react to Lobo's speeding fists? Maybe that's because he's in a headlock.

Besides, what's your point? Next are you going to pull out every instance of Superman getting punched and call it a negative speed feat? That may take you a while.

Then maybe you'll pretend like nobody else has ever been hit? Come on man, try just a little harder.

Originally posted by Cogito
You twist scans like it's your job.

Superman can't react to Lobo's speeding fists? Maybe that's because he's in a headlock.

Besides, what's your point? Next are you going to pull out every instance of Superman getting punched and call it a negative speed feat? That may take you a while.

Then maybe you'll pretend like nobody else has ever been hit? Come on man, try just a little harder.

On the scan where superman knocked WW away, where were you? SOOOOO WW cannot react to supermans punches huh??. You run here when a scan shows superman on the receiving end of a speed feat, yet your mouth is no-where to be heard when hes on the dishing out end?????. CLASSIC!

Originally posted by JBL
I can show scans and twist them also. Superman cannot react to lobos speeding fists......
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/7604/1076498-supeslobo23hqjy0.jpg

Mindcontrolled by Eradicator superman. This happens when Superman uses his speed on Lobo controlled by Eclipso.

Wonder Woman couldn't deal with Deathstroke's speed at one point too.

http://i.imgur.com/Nt03SlZ.jpg

He vanished right in front of her and she couldn't even see him.

Oh sorry, we can only post low showings for superman here, right?

Originally posted by JBL
On the scan where superman knocked WW away, where were you? SOOOOO WW cannot react to supermans punches huh??. You run here when a scan shows superman on the receiving end of a speed feat, yet your mouth is no-where to be heard when hes on the dishing out end?????. CLASSIC!

As we all know, not every character is using their speed to the fullest at all times. Coming in with a scan showing a character get punched in no way diminishes their ability.

Superman has numerous nano-second feats. Wonder Woman has zero. Superman has directly demonstrated superior speed in direct comparison to Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman has Batman, once, saying her reflexes are faster.

The evidence is clear.

Originally posted by JBL
On the scan where superman knocked WW away, where were you? SOOOOO WW cannot react to supermans punches huh??. You run here when a scan shows superman on the receiving end of a speed feat, yet your mouth is no-where to be heard when hes on the dishing out end?????. CLASSIC!

Because he caught her strike while having his back turned on her effortlessly and then blitzed her effortlessly. That's different than a mindcontrolled superman getting punched by Lobo.


From a writer who nerfed superman because if he didn't, there is no need for JLA.

quote:
You've written Superman before, in "Justice League Unlimited" and recently in the "Crisis on Two Earths" film. How does this version of Superman compare to the others you've written previously?

Mcduffie: One of the things about writing Superman in "Justice League" is that if you write him at his full potential, then there's no need for the rest of the Justice League. So, you always have to sort of power him down or kind of Worf-Effect him so he doesn't solve the entire problem in four seconds. You have to adjust him in a way that makes him less effective than he normally is. That's probably true for every member in a team book who has their own solo thing, but it's really obvious with Superman. In this case, one thing, we're starting off with a Superman who is much more powerful than he's ever been, which is fun as well. I generally have to write a Superman who is much weaker than he usually is. The problem of having him in a story that's not a finite one-off like this is, is that if Superman is at full power, he just fixes everything and there's nothing to do next month.

Lemme note: He feels he didn't nerf him against superman specificially, but against everyone, MM, CM, Amazo, you name it. (honestly, I disagree, Superman is written at full power in JLA all the time, but that's not even needed to rebut).

Nor, btw, did he say that he nerfs Superman in every way and that every time he writes someone else as better than him in a specific way that it's not true. You're taking a generalized comment about needed to prevent Superman's full array of powers from winning things, and trying to use it as a weapon against a specific character- even though the writer merely feels that way about *everyone* in comparison.

And nor does it change that he never even wrote a WW vs Supes fight, and the writers that did, like the one you're about to use an example of, show them as performing closer than McDuffie does ironically enough.

Also... McDuffie (I think it was him. Same JL era at least) had her lasso *Amazo* by speed, so he shows her as having high speed feats independent of Superman as well. So, even aside from that specific comparison, she's still shown to be quite, quite fast.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because he caught her strike while having his back turned on her effortlessly and then blitzed her effortlessly. That's different than a mindcontrolled superman getting punched by Lobo.

"Blitzed her effortlessly". Psh, you don't know the meaning of blitzed, I guess? He hit her once. She hit him back. They hit each other back and forth repeatedly until a third-party distraction drew one of them away. Blitzed doesn't mean able to throw down and go shot for shot. The only way for one to get the impression that that was one sided is if one didn't read the whole fight.

Seriously, you can make *anyone* look awesome- or horrible- if you cut away most of the pages of the fight.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because he caught her strike while having his back turned on her effortlessly and then blitzed her effortlessly. That's different than a mindcontrolled superman getting punched by Lobo.
Do you enjoy twisting scans to show what YOU want them to say? WW has avoid supermans strikes and knocked him away plenty of times. This mind controlled thing is getting old. When he fought WW he thought WW was DD and he went all-out, speed included. He used his strength, he used heatvision, freeze breath and he used his superhearing and spoke in a CLEAR tone several times and even noted that DD was smarter and could not hide from him. Guess what the writer was showing the reader?? He showed superman using damn near ALL his abilities going all out and fighting smart, even directing WW/DD towards the sun so that he could power up... THATS SMART FIGHTING ALL AROUND and guess what? WW held back, avoided his punches and could have cut his head off before supers could react, She even landed punches and kicks he could not avoid, BUT.... you want YOUR scan to be the scan to end all scans right??? You have to take the good with the bad. Its alright to like a character, but when it elevates to obsession, one should listen to the MANY posters who point out your flaws, scan twisting and false statements because of a hatred to hear or see that superman is not the greatest thing on paper. Hes good, very good, but there are a LOT better. 😉

Originally posted by Q99
Lemme note: He feels he didn't nerf him against superman specificially, but against everyone, MM, CM, Amazo, you name it. (honestly, I disagree, Superman is written at full power in JLA all the time, but that's not even needed to rebut).
I would've facepalmed if it wasn't you. You're disagreeing with a writer's words about the character he wrote that he nerfed superman? Hahaha.

Nor, btw, did he say that he nerfs Superman in every way and that every time he writes someone else as better than him in a specific way that it's not true.
What part of "not needing JLA if superman was at full power" was too much for you?
You're taking a generalized comment about needed to prevent Superman's full array of powers from winning things, and trying to use it as a weapon against a specific character- even though the writer merely feels that way about *everyone* in comparison.
And you're inserting your own view among what is clear admission by Mcduffie that he powered down Superman so others may have a chance. But you think martians knocked out every member of JLA because wonder woman was oneshotted, so meh.

And nor does it change that he never even wrote a WW vs Supes fight, and the writers that did, like the one you're about to use an example of, show them as performing closer than McDuffie does ironically enough.
Like who exactly? I'm asking you repeatedly about the writers here Q. Who are these writers?

Also... McDuffie (I think it was him. Same JL era at least) had her lasso *Amazo* by speed, so he shows her as having high speed feats independent of Superman as well.
An incomplete Amazo in Red Tornado's body and that was Brad Meltzer. Vixen broke that amazo apart by diving through it. Read before what you post.
So, even aside from that specific comparison, she's still shown to be quite, quite fast.
So, she is faster than Red Tornado's damaged body? Look who are the fastest beings on JLA/JSA under the same writer.

No wonder woman as usual.

"Blitzed her effortlessly". Psh, you don't know the meaning of blitzed, I guess?
I know, hitting someone at superspeed.
He hit her once. She hit him back.
When she tried attacking him at superspeed, he effortlessly caught her strike.

They hit each other back and forth repeatedly until a third-party distraction drew one of them away. Blitzed doesn't mean able to throw down and go shot for shot. The only way for one to get the impression that that was one sided is if one didn't read the whole fight.
You're being yourself here again. What does hitting each other at normal speed means?

Seriously, you can make *anyone* look awesome- or horrible- if you cut away most of the pages of the fight.
Like here right where he catches her superspeed attack while she couldn't even react to superman bitchslapping her.

I don't know how many times you're going to accuse me of ignoring pages of fights without posting a single scan in your favor.

Originally posted by JBL
Do you enjoy twisting scans to show what YOU want them to say? WW has avoid supermans strikes and knocked him away plenty of times. This mind controlled thing is getting old. When he fought WW he thought WW was DD and he went all-out, speed included. He used his strength, he used heatvision, freeze breath and he used his superhearing and spoke in a CLEAR tone several times and even noted that DD was smarter and could not hide from him. Guess what the writer was showing the reader?? He showed superman using damn near ALL his abilities going all out and fighting smart, even directing WW/DD towards the sun so that he could power up... THATS SMART FIGHTING ALL AROUND and guess what? WW held back, avoided his punches and could have cut his head off before supers could react, She even landed punches and kicks he could not avoid, BUT.... you want YOUR scan to be the scan to end all scans right??? You have to take the good with the bad. Its alright to like a character, but when it elevates to obsession, one should listen to the MANY posters who point out your flaws, scan twisting and false statements because of a hatred to hear or see that superman is not the greatest thing on paper. Hes good, very good, but there are a LOT better. 😉

Has she? Lets try it again. Bizarro moves so fast that she can barely see him and blitzes the shit out of her.

Look who is blitzing Bizarro here.

See the difference?

Also 😂 @ repeating the same thing as before. Pretty smart fighting here, HVing clouds while he has the opponent in front of him.

😂

🤨

Originally posted by abhilegend
Has she? Lets try it again. Bizarro moves so fast that she can barely see him and blitzes the shit out of her.

Look who is blitzing Bizarro here.

See the difference?

Also 😂 @ repeating the same thing as before. Pretty smart fighting here, HVing clouds while he has the opponent in front of him.

😂

A small child could see the folly in your scans. ABC logic at its best. 😆

Never saw Bizarro blitzing the shit out of her? How much faster is Bizarro than superman now?

Originally posted by JBL
A small child could see the folly in your scans. ABC logic at its best. 😆

Ha, so you're saying you're worse than a child? Bizarro is faster than Wonder Woman and Superman is faster than Bizarro but wonder woman is faster than superman? That doesn't even makes sense. But hey, your posts don't make sense either. Keep parroting a single scan though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Never saw Bizarro blitzing the shit out of her? How much faster is Bizarro than superman now?
He breaks the lasso, shes shown looking shocked and he rushes her and beat her down..... Superman comes along and grabs him and throws him into a volcano and thats your version of superman being faster combat wise than WW???. I need a drink of Whisky not.lol