Ben Kenobi vs Count Dooku

lol

That neither Anakin nor Mace can compete with Sidious...

I meant GL's statement.

What?

GL is the one who said that you have to be Yoda OR Mace in order to compete with Sidious.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
GL's statements are not trumped by your opinion in any SW setting.

I just told you.

You posted it the same time I posted so I didn't see it.

"You have to be either Yoda or Mace to compete with Sidious" ~ George Lucas, the Making of Revenge of the Sith; page 204

I know.

So, if that is indeed your "thesis" as was requested by Lord Stark... then the foundation of your argument has been rendered invalid.

No, it hasn't.

So... you dictate canon now? If not, then explain your position.

I am of the belief that Mace's was significantly amped because of the events that took place. Mace being able to compete with Sidious but not Anakin makes no sense. Sourcebooks have also stated that Mace hadn't even realized what had happened when Tiin, Fisto and Kolar had died, meaning he couldn't react to Sidious under normal circumstances.

I respect any disagreements though. I only recently agreed with this conclusion myself, and it was quite hard to switch sides.

It doesn't really matter what sourcebooks say, when GL himself has stated Mace CAN and DID successfully compete with Sidious.

I personally still think Sidious is more powerful and would win a majority against Mace in a one on one all out fight. But Mace can and has competed against him. That's just fact.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That's just fact.

Mace can compete with Sidious because he is the only one who can amplify himself via. his own darkness because of Vaapad (the darkness which happened to be circumstancial).

Originally posted by Intrepid37
The narration notes that Bane is the best swordsman ever.

The narration notes that Sidious and Dooku are equals.

Equals can mean any number of things.

The narration notes that Dooku is Mace's equal.

Even if I were to humor you. Yoda would have seen Mace and Dooku spar multiple times. He also has dueled Dooku and sparred with Mace. He's a higher authority than you are.

lol @ the strawmans

Nobody said that Yoda isn't reliable, which he is in this case. But it his opinion, which is fact. Not that the red herring had anything to do with Bulq's ability to challenge Dooku. 😬

Originally posted by Intrepid37

Mace can compete with Sidious because he is the only one who can amplify himself via. his own darkness because of Vaapad (the darkness which happened to be circumstancial).

It doesn't matter HOW he is able to compete. The fact is he CAN and DID.

Saying "oh mace can only compete because he can amp himself via Vaapad" is akin to saying that, because most Jedi are only able to overcome their opponents because of their Force abilities, they are not really able to compete with said opponents.

Except that the idea is that he can only compete with him in that state.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
lol @ the strawmans

Nobody said that Yoda isn't reliable, which he is in this case. But it his opinion, which is fact. Not that the red herring had anything to do with Bulq's ability to challenge Dooku. 😬

Bulq doesn't have the ability to challenge Dooku. Bulq is a low diff battle for Mace and Dooku. Also this idea that Windu had a one-time amp is pure conjecture.

Also they aren't strawmans, they're responses to your red herrings.

That's who he is... that's what he does.

By your logic, General Grievous cannot compete with Other Jedi since he can only overcome them due to his cybernetic enhancements and speed. Or Darth Sidious cannot compete with Jango Fett because he has to use the Force in order to do so.