Ben Kenobi vs Count Dooku

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Similarly Kenobi and Skywalker's Sabers were deactivated after taking a force blast from from Opress but they were not knocked out and still fully capable of carrying on the fight. Kenobi's sabers were also deactiavted after Maul force pinned him, but he was still able to reactivate them in time to block the attacks of Maul/Opress and chop Opress's arm off. [/B]

True, but the artist had specifically just shown Mace's saber active right after a force push. Also the fact that Bulq did not pursue shows he was KO'd. He had just stated the main battle was not where they were fighting. By letting Mace go deal with Ventress he was failing his objective. And not killing Mace was also a failure as he now knew his double identity. Bulq lost. If he didn't he would have pursued Mace.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
He was still KO'd otherwise his sabers wouldn't have been deactivated.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yes it is. Read Dark Rendezvous.
"Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground"

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You are arguing Anakin is faster than Mace, then arguing that Anakin can't compete with Sidious.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It took him an entire fight with Ventress to regain consciousness.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Uhh yeah he was bordering on consciousness *minutes* before the duel. Do you seriously think that had nothing to do with it?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You are missing the point.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
They were not fighting evenly. Windu cornered her onto a cliff in seconds.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol trying to justify a double standard. If you are going to use it for one showing you can't downplay it because it hurts your argument in another.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Go on youtube. The clips are there.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And Yoda struggled to lift a crane in AOTC. We all know that's not the limit for the most powerful Jedi.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Prove this.

Originally posted by You
Go on youtube. Read the book. The clips are there. The proof is there.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Do you have any idea how retarded that sounds?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And also scans for this.

Originally posted by Me
Read the book. The proof is there.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
The man has been confirmed by multiple sources to be one of the top 3 of the PT Jedi Order. The others being Dooku and Yoda.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
That does not automatically mean Anakin is faster than Mace and Dooku no matter the time and place.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Also. Your argument style is quite honestly pathetic. You've bashed me for using the Clone Wars, when you yourself have used it to shamelessly wank Skywalker in other threads.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You think a character feat involves twirling a lightsaber around.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You take source material and ignore certain aspects for your own benefit.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And worst of all you dismiss Mace's defeat of Palpatine under the "lol Vaapad" argument without even understanding how it works.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So when you get Anakin's pretty boy cock from betwixt your lips message me

Originally posted by Lord Stark
and I'll debate you.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Otherwise change your username to Padme Amidala. At least then your wank of Anakin would be justified by some legal measure.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Merry Christmas Padme.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Your rebuttal will probably not be responded to.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He has better force feats than Maul/Savage.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
What POWER said. Nothing shows that Bulq was out of the fight.

Right so he just decided not to pursue Windu right after trying to kill him.

Lmao. First off, this is Yoda's opinion. Second, the ''perhaps'' leaves it open for others. Third, Bulq doesn't have to be Mace's equal to challenge him.

No it isn't its in the narrative. Reading comprehension ftw. Its saying Mace is a perhaps. Meaning its more than likely a 55:45 in Dooku's favor. Mace is a Jedi, does he have to cut him across the chest in order to win.

It seems you got it, so why is it that pretty much none of your points address mine?

You don't have an argument.

No, it took the entire fight with Ventress before we saw Bulq.

You're being dense as usual. If Bulq wasn't unconscious what was he doing. So...you think Windu ran away engaged in a duel with Ventress and ruined Bulq's strategy all while Bulq what? Just stands there and twiddles his dick?

Anakin can't compete with Sidious no matter what.

Sure they were. You forgot to post the scan prior to the one where they clashed blades. And she wasn't cornered.

Uh I forgot the scan where Ventress hypes her even further?

I can. Relying on TV shows for speed is retarded. Otherwise, Obi-Wan and Maul are not even faster than regular human since they never fought faster than Vizsla.

You don't get to say what canon source is valid and what aren't. Unless you happen to be Leeland Chee or GL, you can stop right there.

That's the stylistic difference between movie and EU.

Every author has a stylistic difference, that's what a stylistic difference is nitwit.

Of course logic is retarded for retards.

You aren't using logic. You are using selective reasoning, which is what we like to call bias.

-snip-

How about you do us a favor and tell us what your argument actually is? State it simply in a thesis. Because at this point you are just annoying me.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Right so he just decided not to pursue Windu right after trying to kill him.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No it isn't its in the narrative.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Its saying Mace is a perhaps.

''Perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground''. In this case, ''perhaps'' means that there might be others.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You don't have an argument.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Just stands there and twiddles his dick?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So what is your argument?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Uh I forgot the scan where Ventress hypes her even further?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You don't get to say what canon source is valid and what aren't. Unless you happen to be Leeland Chee or GL, you can stop right there.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Every author has a stylistic difference, that's what a stylistic difference is nitwit.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You aren't using logic. You are using selective reasoning, which is what we like to call bias.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
How about you do us a favor and tell us what your argument actually is? State it simply in a thesis. Because at this point you are just annoying me.

That neither Anakin nor Mace can compete with Sidious, and that Anakin is better than Mace.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
That neither Anakin nor Mace can compete with Sidious, and that Anakin is better than Mace. [/B]

Right, you are aware I created an Anakin respect thread correct? That I was the one who debunked the concept that Mace can take Anakin to the curb? Before I made that thread the idea was that Mace was way stronger than Anakin.

Also Mace can compete with Sidious based on the GL quote you keep throwing in my face. Even if Anakin is better than Mace he'll lose against him because Vaapad throws his greatest strength (his rage) right back at him. Mace defeating Sidious, who's much better at appropriating his rage into strength means Anakin is unlikely to be able to defeat Mae.

Your idea that Mace can't compete with Sidious is debunked by every canon source to date.

Omfg. SW novels are written in third-person narration. The narrator is not omniscient, but only privy to the thoughts of the characters. In this case, the narrator is showing us Yoda's thoughts/opinion.

We're done here. You clearly don't even know what third-person narrative is. So here you go.
http://fictionwriting.about.com/od/glossary/g/3rdperson.htm

"Third person point of view may be omniscient or limited."

Considering that the novel also reflects Dooku's inner thoughts, it isn't limited. Limited would be like the ASOIAF novels where each chapter focuses on a specific character.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Right, you are aware I created an Anakin respect thread correct?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
That I was the one who debunked the concept that Mace can take Anakin to the curb? Before I made that thread the idea was that Mace was way stronger than Anakin.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Even if Anakin is better than Mace he'll lose against him because Vaapad throws his greatest strength (his rage) right back at him.

He lost to Vastor.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
We're done here. You clearly don't even know what third-person narrative is. So here you go.
http://fictionwriting.about.com/od/glossary/g/3rdperson.htm

"Third person point of view may be [B]omniscient or limited."

Considering that the novel also reflects Dooku's inner thoughts, it isn't limited. Limited would be like the ASOIAF novels where each chapter focuses on a specific character. [/B]

''The third-person subjective is when the narrator conveys the thoughts, feelings, opinions, etc. of one or more characters. If there is just one character, it can be termed third-person limited, in which the reader is "limited" to the thoughts of some particular character (often the protagonist) as in the first-person mode, except still giving personal descriptions using "he", "she", "it", and "they", but not "I".''

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Nothing shows that Bulq was out of the fight.

Beg your pardon but let's use a little common sense here.

Mace Force-slammed Bulq into the wall and then left to save the other Jedi. He arrives in time to drive off Ventress, they make it to the ship and fly off.

If Bulq had been able to immediately give chase and stall Mace further he would have done so. As it is Bulq doesn't arrive on the scene until the Jedi have escaped. Even if he wasn't out cold he was at the very least stunned for a few moments. Meaning yes, he was out of the fight.

Furthermore, Mace could have killed him right then and there. He didn't because saving lives was more important than killing an enemy.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He actually saw Mace fly away without following him, speaking that they would meet again. So yes.

Exactly. By the time Bulq gets there the Jedi have flown off. At that point Bulq knows he can't get to a ship in time to stop them before they go into hyperspace. He doesn't follow because by then they were beyond his immediate reach.

So what was the end result?

Mace foiled Bulq's plan to divide the Jedi, got the others away, exposed Bulq as a traitor and could have killed him if there hadn't been a more pressing issue to deal with.

Winner: Mace Windu.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sure they were. You forgot to post the scan prior to the one where they clashed blades. And she wasn't cornered..

By "clashed blades" you mean of course, that she blocked one blow.

She blocked one attack, linked her sabres together and did a counterstrike which Mace backflipped over. He then drove her back to the edge of a cliff so yes, she was cornered.

Blocking one blow, launching one counterattack and then being forced to give ground until she's on the edge of a cliff is not even remotely close to "fighting evenly." At best it shows Ventress is good enough to not get killed immediately against Mace.

Nobody is saying Ventress isn't inferior. But it remains that they fought evenly with neither gaining the advantage.

She wouldn't have fled had Mace not gained the advantage, especially given her statement that she wanted to fight him in the first place.

That neither Anakin nor Mace can compete with Sidious, and that Anakin is better than Mace.

And your opinionated but very wrong statement that Mace cannot compete with Sidious does not trump G-canon, no matter how many times you state it.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
''The third-person subjective is when the narrator conveys the thoughts, feelings, opinions, etc. of one or more characters. If there is just one character, it can be termed third-person limited, in which the reader is "limited" to the thoughts of some particular character (often the protagonist) as in the first-person mode, except still giving personal descriptions using "he", "she", "it", and "they", but not "I".'' [/B]

It isn't written in third person subjective. Its clearly written from the narrator's POV. We're done here Intrepid.

Nope, Intrepids right.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nope, Intrepids right.

You're right, what I meant to say was that its not third person limited. So the narration is canon.

Have you read the book? Its obviously written in third person limited.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Have you read the book? Its obviously written in third person limited.

It convey's Dooku's thoughts so its not third person limited.

Not in that section.

Either way, its not an omniscient point of view.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not in that section.

Either way, its not an omniscient point of view.

Irrelevant. There's no chapter of the novel that is limited to the thoughts of one character. It flips consistently. Who's point of view is it then?

Yoda's. By your logic, Kas'im is the best duelist ever and Dooku is equal to Sidious (I once referred this quote long ago, but have obviously conceded since then). Neither of these are true.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yoda's. By your logic, Kas'im is the best duelist ever and Dooku is equal to Sidious (I once referred this quote long ago, but have obviously conceded since then). Neither of these are true.

Except it doesn't...it shows Dooku's internal thoughts. When did GL state Kas'im is the best duelist ever. And Dooku isn't equal to Sidious the only person in the PT who is his equal is Yoda. That doesn't mean Mace and Dooku can't compete with Sidious.

The narration notes that Bane is the best swordsman ever.

Path of Destruction
Within the first few passes Bane knew he couldn't win. Kas'im had trained his entire life for this moment. After years of study, he'd mastered all seven forms of the lightsaber. Then he'd honed his skill for decades, perfecting every move and sequence until he had become the perfect weapon and the greatest living swordsman in the galaxy. Maybe the greatest swordsman ever. Bane was no match for him.

Is it true? No, because the narration is describing Bane's thoughts about Kas'im.

The narration notes that Sidious and Dooku are equals.

Labyrinth of Evil
Sidious had recognized in Dooku the makings of a true accomplice - - an equal from the other camp, already trained in the Jedi arts, a master duelist, a political visionary.

Is it true? No, because the narration is describing Dooku's thoughts about himself.

The narration notes that Dooku is Mace's equal.

Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
As Yoda released Whirry from his mind's hold, and let her spill gently onto the flagstones far below, the tip of Dooku's lightsaber scored a burning line across his shoulder. The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible-wickedness cut in red light.

Is it true? Not necessarily, because the narration is describing Yoda's thoughts about Dooku.

Id' like to get back to your statement that Mace cannot compete with Sidious.

Forget all the narrative BS for a moment.

GL's statements are not trumped by your opinion in any SW setting.

What statements?