Originally posted by Intrepid37
I would also like to point that in the movie, Mace doesn't even react/do anything to help Tiin and Kolar until Sidious engages him in combat.
Not entirely true. Mace moves back into a guard position when Palpatine makes his move, so he wasn't exactly in the best position to defend them. And let's face it, it wasn't his job to defend them. It was their job to aid Mace in battling Sidious.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Because Mace ran, and the comic was focusing on him. We never saw what happened with Bulq. The duel was inconclusive.
Bulq was KO'd and failed in his objective of detaining Windu.
Your point has absolutely nothing to do with your stupid idea that Mace can fight faster than Anakin can see when Jedi inferior to Anakin in speed can.
That's pretty stupid A>B>C logic. I guess because Barriss Offee fought on par with Anakin, she must be faster than Mace as well.
Mace has far more consistent feats than Skywalker does.
In a fight where Mace gained a enormous speed boost because of the increased darkness within him which he amped himself with thanks to the effects of Vaapad.
Who, at best, is equal to Jedi in speed who, per Lucas, can't even compete with Sidious.
Dooku dueled on par with the two Jedi who disarmed Sidious so that's a stupid argument.
😉 [/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Bulq was KO'd
Originally posted by Lord Stark
and failed in his objective of detaining Windu.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
That's pretty stupid A>B>C logic.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
I guess because Barriss Offee fought on par with Anakin, she must be faster than Mace as well.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Mace has far more consistent feats than Skywalker does.
Anakin is faster than Mace as well. He has better running speed, reaction speed and combat speed. In fact, Obi-Wan has better reaction speed than Mace and equal combat speed. Maul has better running speed, better perception speed and equal combat speed. Luke in the Rebellion era has better running speed, better perception speed and equal combat speed. Kit Fisto has equally good combat speed.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku dueled on par with the two Jedi who disarmed Sidious so that's a stupid argument.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Except we never saw what happened with Bulq.
Uh no. The Wookiepedia thinks differently and I am inclined to believe it over you.
" When Bulq and Windu sensed this in the Force, Bulq taunted Windu that, with their deaths, he could not possibly win. Windu agreed, blasting Bulq into a pile of rubble and rendering him unconscious, then rushing to the other Jedi, where he forced Ventress to flee.
Bulq awakened and sought out Windu, but he and the other Jedi had fled under attack from Bulq's service droids. His plan had been foiled. Jeisel and K'Kruhk survived and returned to the Jedi fold, completely nullifying any chance of schism. Bulq's fall to the dark side and defection to Dooku were also revealed to no gain. With his potential as a prestigious double agent foiled, Bulq was returned to more overt service for the Confederacy."
LOL. Tyranus failed in his objective to kill Obi-Wan. So what? Besides, Mace failed to capture Bulq.
No he didn't. He could have captured him but then his companions would have been slaughtered by Ventress.
I'm not making an argument, I'm pointing flaws in yours.
I honestly have no idea from where this red herring came.
Not a red herring. You are arguing against Mace, I am arguing against Anakin. Saying Mace is slower than Anakin because he didn't blitz XYZ is the same as saying Anakin is slower than Mace because he failed to blitz a Padawan
LOL. The only person Mace has beaten on pure skill is presumably Dooku when they sparred. He beat Grievous by BFR, Bulq by Force pushing him (not even a victory), stalemated Tyranus countless times, fought evenly with Tiin without a winner, beat Sidious by exploiting his shatterpoint, drove off Ventress with no conclusive winner, beat Quinlan because Quinlan had no knowledge of Vaapad (IIRC). He lost to Vastor as well.
He never beat Dooku. And bullshit he didn't know about Vaapad. Its blatantly stated in source books that the only ones
Anakin is faster than Mace as well. He has better running speed, reaction speed and combat speed. In fact, Obi-Wan has better reaction speed than Mace and equal combat speed. Maul has better running speed, better perception speed and equal combat speed. Luke in the Rebellion era has better running speed, better perception speed and equal combat speed. Kit Fisto has equally good combat speed.
And Sidious dueled on par with Yoda who has beaten Mace's equal on a dark side nexus.
They stalemated. Let's not embellish here.
@Lord Stark
Relaying on wookie is a stupid idea, since there is a lot of people on this forum (DP, or you for example) who could write much better articles.
For example: you - as I remember - were the one that said, that Stover's version of Dooku's duel with Anakin and Obi-Wan was BS. Maybe I'm wrong. But if i'm not, then I have to tell you, that I agree with you.
People from wookie... not exactly. Many of articles have a lot of writter's interpretation. This one with Bulq for example. Or Dooku's and Mace's duel from Boz Pity - as I remember, they writed that Mace overhelmed the Count. And it's clear, that he didn't.
We never saw Bulq unconscious. And the fact, that Mace is still talking to him after that push may suggest, that Bulq was conscious.
I bet, this Mace's push on Bulq was very similar to Maul's push on Kenobi (during their duel in season 5). It's my interpretation, but I consider it as much better then people's from wookie.
It's anyway hard to assume, that Mace had an clear advantage over Bulq. He had not. Bulq also was able to catch him off-guard with his own force push. And their saber duel was pretty equal (unlike Dooku's duel with Bulq). I didn't say, that Mace was below Dooku because of that. Mace and Bulq knew themselves very well (or perfectly - as a fighters). Maybe it was the reason.
@Intrepid37
Mace has beaten Dooku? Where?
Anyway, I agree that Anakin (regular) was faster, but Windu was more skilled. Overall Windu was better. But Anakin (zone) was far above Windu.
Originally posted by Zett
[B]@Lord StarkRelaying on wookie is a stupid idea, since there is a lot of people on this forum (DP, or you for example) who could write much better articles.
For example: you - as I remember - were the one that said, that Stover's version of Dooku's duel with Anakin and Obi-Wan was BS. Maybe I'm wrong. But if i'm not, then I have to tell you, that I agree with you.
I only rely on Wookiepedia when I don't have the source material handy. Intrepid is pulling shit out of his ass with no direct source material.
People from wookie... not exactly. Many of articles have a lot of writter's interpretation. This one with Bulq for example. Or Dooku's and Mace's duel from Boz Pity - as I remember, they writed that Mace overhelmed the Count. And it's clear, that he didn't.
We never saw Bulq unconscious. And the fact, that Mace is still talking to him after that push may suggest, that Bulq was conscious.
Hardly. Someone post the link the comics. And no he got blasted into a pile of stones. And if there's a scene of him waking up it proves my point even further.
I bet, this Mace's push on Bulq was very similar to Maul's push on Kenobi (during their duel in season 5). It's my interpretation, but I consider it as much better then people's from wookie.It's anyway hard to assume, that Mace had an clear advantage over Bulq. He had not. Bulq also was able to catch him off-guard with his own force push. And their saber duel was pretty equal (unlike Dooku's duel with Bulq). I didn't say, that Mace was below Dooku because of that. Mace and Bulq knew themselves very well (or perfectly - as a fighters). Maybe it was the reason.
It doesn't matter. Its stated in several sources the only people in the Order who could duel Mace as an Equal were Dooku and Yoda. PERIOD. Bulq was a part of that Jedi Order.
Speed wise:
Zoneakin>>Dooku>Mace>Anakin (regular)
Strength wise:
Zoneakin>>Anakin>Mace>Dooku
Skill Wise:
Dooku>Mace>Zoneakin=Anakin
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Uh no. The Wookiepedia thinks differently and I am inclined to believe it over you.
" When Bulq and Windu sensed this in the Force, Bulq taunted Windu that, with their deaths, he could not possibly win. Windu agreed, blasting Bulq into a pile of rubble and rendering him unconscious, then rushing to the other Jedi, where he forced Ventress to flee.Bulq awakened and sought out Windu, but he and the other Jedi had fled under attack from Bulq's service droids. His plan had been foiled. Jeisel and K'Kruhk survived and returned to the Jedi fold, completely nullifying any chance of schism. Bulq's fall to the dark side and defection to Dooku were also revealed to no gain. With his potential as a prestigious double agent foiled, Bulq was returned to more overt service for the Confederacy."
Originally posted by Lord Stark
No he didn't. He could have captured him but then his companions would have been slaughtered by Ventress.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
No you are making an argument that Skywalker>Windu.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not a red herring. You are arguing against Mace, I am arguing against Anakin. Saying Mace is slower than Anakin because he didn't blitz XYZ is the same as saying Anakin is slower than Mace because he failed to blitz a Padawan
Originally posted by Me
Anakin is faster than Mace as well. He has better running speed, reaction speed and combat speed. In fact, Obi-Wan has better reaction speed than Mace and equal combat speed. Maul has better running speed, better perception speed and equal combat speed. Luke in the Rebellion era has better running speed, better perception speed and equal combat speed. Kit Fisto has equally good combat speed.
Originally posted by Me
He never beat Dooku.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
And bullshit he didn't know about Vaapad. Its blatantly stated in source books that the only ones
Originally posted by Lord Stark
They stalemated. Let's not embellish here.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Did you even read the source? I really don't want to waste time on educating you.
I've read it. I remember him being KO'd. So post scans or shut the **** up.
What does Ventress have to do with anything?
I'm telling you that your logic for Mace being faster is asinine.
Its not asinine you benighted whelp. They are both in the same league.
Another red herring. I never said Mace is slower than Anakin because he hasn't blitzed anyone. In fact, neither has Anakin. I'm telling you this:
When has Skywalker ever demonstrated the raw speed Windu has. Not only in his duel with Sidious, but also in destroying a battle droid army with his bare hands, single handedly.
Again, what? Sidious fought evenly with someone factually superior to Mace.
A>B>C logic doesn't work.
Mace Sidious is like a 65:35 in Sidious' favor. We saw one of the 35/100 times Mace won. Its not always a case of Sidious is stronger so he'll win everytime.
Also LOL at Fisto having equal speed to Mace. Give me a break the guy got lol blitzed by Ventress.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
I've read it. I remember him being KO'd. So post scans or shut the **** up.
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Mace%20Windu/2454119-mace_sora_1_zps0b3f1563.jpg
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Mace%20Windu/2454120-mace_sora_2_zps991fae6f.jpg
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Mace%20Windu/2454121-mace_sora_3_zps67c89481.jpg
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Mace%20Windu/2454122-mace_sora_4_zpsfcc6c835.jpg
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Did you read the source?
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Its not asinine you benighted whelp. They are both in the same league.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
A>B>C logic doesn't work.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Give me a break the guy got lol blitzed by Ventress.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
When has Skywalker ever demonstrated the raw speed Windu has.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Also LOL at Fisto having equal speed to Mace.
Mace's best combat speed showing is weaving a web out of his lightsaber.
Shatterpoint
The compound flooded with smoke and flame, with flashes of blaster bolts and snarls of hypersonic slugs. Mace paced through it all with relentless calm, his only expression a slight frown of concentration, his blades weaving an impenetrable web of lightning. He gave more and more of himself over to the Force, letting it move his hands, his feet, letting it guide him through the battle.
Good feat. But are you aware that Obi-Wan as far back as TPM has practically done the same when he created a barrier, and per Lucas, he can't even compete with Sidious?
Cloak of Deception
Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Tiin, and Ki-Adi-Mundi surged from the pyramid entrance, engaging the terrorists that had driven them back. A quarter of the way across the immense plaza, the Jedi spread out in a wedge formation, their constantly moving blades fending off blaster bolts loosed from ahead and to either side. Behind the energy barrier fashioned by the lightsabers, Yaddle, Depa, Vergere, and two of the judicials raced out to divert fire from the rear.
Tiin did it also. He got blitzed by Sidious.
If you pay attention to the quote, Qui-Gon did it also. Are you aware that Obi-Wan is faster than Qui-Gon also?
The Phantom Menace
Lunging and twisting, Darth Maul regained the offensive and counterattacked, using both ends of his lightsaber in an effort to cut Obi-Wan's legs out from under him. But Obi-Wan, while not so experienced as Qui-Gon, was quicker. Anticipating each blow, he was able to elude his antagonist's efforts to bring him down.
Are you aware that Maul has done exactly the same, is faster than Qui-Gon who has done exactly the same, and was unable to even see Sidious?
Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter
The Sith and the Jedi leapt from the speeder bike onto the platform to continue their battle. The dock-Ing ledge was only about ten meters by fifteen, barely enough room to maneuver in. Maul knew he had to dispatch the Jedi quickly, before Pavan once again vanished into the labyrinth of Coruscant's downlevels. He pressed the attack viciously, blocking and thrusting, the twin radiant blades spinning a web of light about him.
The Phantom Menace
Even without knowing anything else, Qui-Gon knew this man was trained in the fighting arts of a Jedi, a skilled and dangerous adversary. Worse, he was younger, quicker, and stronger than Qui-Gon, and he was gaining ground rapidly. The Jedi Master blocked him again and again, but could not find an opening that would provide any chance of escape.
Episode I Journal: Darth Maul
The lightsaber whirls in the air, twirling, held in my Master's hand. I can't track it, it moves so fast. But I know it's heading for me.Lord Sidious moves faster than my eye can follow. I smell heat and smoke. The laser traces the outline of my body, my face, my hands. The buzz is loud in my ear. One flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle, and I am dead.
For Fisto, he whirled his lightsaber so fast that the haze surrounding it resembled a cyclone.
Labyrinth of Evil
To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light.
Mace spun a web of light about him. Anakin nearly encased himself in light.
Attack of the Clones
"I'm a slow learner," Anakin replied coolly, and he came on then, so suddenly, so powerfully, his green blade whirling with such speed that he seemed almost encased in green light.
Anakin created a blurring haze big enough to cover Dooku's entire line of sight, which was the whole room they were fighting in, showing the huge size of the haze.
Revenge of the Sith
That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture: with a shout of the Force, he shot like a torpedo up the stairs behind Skywalker, and Dooku decided that under these rather extreme circumstances, it was at least arguably permissible for a gentleman to cheat.
So kindly tell me how Mace is faster than any of those characters I mentioned.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
[B]Your memory serves you horribly.http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Mace%20Windu/2454119-mace_sora_1_zps0b3f1563.jpg
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Mace%20Windu/2454120-mace_sora_2_zps991fae6f.jpg
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Mace%20Windu/2454121-mace_sora_3_zps67c89481.jpg
http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p751/Intrepid37/Mace%20Windu/2454122-mace_sora_4_zpsfcc6c835.jpg
No it doesn't. You're a moron. Bulq's plan is to kill Windu and tell a tale to get more Jedi to defect.
Also
"You can no more withstand me than the others can resist my companion Asajj Ventress"
His plan is also to have Ventress kill the other Jedi he arrived with. They both admit the true battle is not there. Mace then pwns Sora Bulq. You want proof? Bulq's lightsabers even deactivate; something that typically only happens when the person is unconscious. The duel wasn't a draw. Mace won.
Also its ****ing stated in canon that the only people who could duel on par with Mace were Dooku and Yoda.
You brought up the fact that Bulq failing to complete his objective is in any way related to do the fight he put up. Tyranus failed to kill Obi-Wan in RotS as well, despite it being his intention.
Red herring. Different scenarios entirely.
LOL. They are in the same league? By your own admission Mace can't even compete with Sidious since Anakin can't.
Since when did I say Anakin can't? What part of Anakin was in a shit mental state when he couldn't see the two of then didn't you understand.
Good to know that Mace's defeat of Sidious has absolutely no relevance to any of his other duels then.
No it does. Being able to defeat Sidious any amount of times is significant.
Not like Mace did any better.
Yes, yes he did.
Nice appeals to ignorance. I maintain what I said.
Then you need to re-watch the Battle of Dantooine.
Mace's best combat speed showing is weaving a web out of his lightsaber.
No his best speed feat is dodging blasterbolts midair and manhandling an army. Not to mention dueling Darth Sidious.
So kindly tell me how Mace is faster than any of those characters I mentioned.
Jesus Christ, does the word artistic liberties mean anything to you? Your argument is so shaky it might as well have been in Katrina.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
No it doesn't. You're a moron. Bulq's plan is to kill Windu and tell a tale to get more Jedi to defect.Also
"You can no more withstand me than the others can resist my companion Asajj Ventress"
His plan is also to have Ventress kill the other Jedi he arrived with. They both admit the true battle is not there. Mace then pwns Sora Bulq. You want proof? Bulq's lightsabers even deactivate; something that typically only happens when the person is unconscious. The duel wasn't a draw. Mace won.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Also its ****ing stated in canon that the only people who could duel on par with Mace were Dooku and Yoda.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Red herring. Different scenarios entirely.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Since when did I say Anakin can't? What part of Anakin was in a shit mental state when he couldn't see the two of then didn't you understand.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
No it does. Being able to defeat Sidious any amount of times is significant.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yes, yes he did.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Then you need to re-watch the Battle of Dantooine.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
No his best speed feat is dodging blasterbolts midair
Originally posted by Lord Stark
and manhandling an army.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not to mention dueling Darth Sidious.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Jesus Christ, does the word artistic liberties mean anything to you? Your argument is so shaky it might as well have been in Katrina.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Speed wise:
Zoneakin>>Dooku>Mace>Anakin (regular)Strength wise:
Zoneakin>>Anakin>Mace>DookuSkill Wise:
Dooku>Mace>Zoneakin=Anakin
Looks fine. I'm just not sure about "Skill Wise". "Dooku>=Mace" or "Dooku=Mace" might be better, I think. After all both of them mastered their forms to the highest degree.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Hardly. Someone post the link the comics. And no he got blasted into a pile of stones. And if there's a scene of him waking up it proves my point even further.
There is not scene of Bulq waking up, as I remember. Just last scene, when he's watching as their ship flies away.
I'm not trying to prove, that Bulq was on Mace's level. Because he was not. But somehow, he fought him evenly. Maybe because of Vaapad, or maybe because they knew each other perfectly. Hard to tell.
It looks like they were equal in terms of skill of TK. Mace just had more raw power (which enabled him to take advantage in this fight).
Originally posted by Intrepid37
No, he didn't They fought evenly, then Ventress runs.
We all know, that this fight was far from even. Windu just told her, that she's no match for him, she agreed and ran away.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Then you need to re-watch the Battle of Dantooine.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
LOL @ relying on a TV show for speed.
Agree with Intrepid here. In this cartoon characters' feats are highly exaggerated.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
It doesn't matter. Its stated in several sources the only people in the Order who could duel Mace as an Equal were Dooku and Yoda. PERIOD. Bulq was a part of that Jedi Order.
Are you sure about that? As I remember Dooku and Yoda were the onlypeople who could outspar him. It's stated on wookie (I guess it's BS since I've never seen that quote) that Qui-Gon could fight Mace equally in a sparing.
The only Jedi that could duel Yoda on equal terms were Mace and Dooku. But I'm not surre, correct me if I'm wrong.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Lucas said nothing about exceptions. He makes it clear that ''You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor'', Lucas says. '' In fact, he goes on to say that Anakin [b]could have beaten Sidious if he hadn't suffered injuries.[/B]
He never said that relates specifically to Sabers, or Speed or Strength. Looking at how Count Dooku Force stomped Kenobi, and how Palpatine Force stomped Maul and Opress, it's pretty clear Lucas sees competition as being more than just Sabers. The chances are Sidious would effortlessly force stomp Skywalker, therefore he can't compete. That in no way, shape or form means he can't compete in any way whatsoever, or that he specifically can't compete in a Pure Saber match up.
The only indication we may have on Lucas's Saber ratings are the ones Gillard has given us, which put Skywalker and Mace both in the same league as Yoda and Sidious, and appears in the same source as Lucas's competing quote as well.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He never said that relates specifically to Sabers, or Speed or Strength. Looking at how Count Dooku Force stomped Kenobi, and how Palpatine Force stomped Maul and Opress, it's pretty clear Lucas sees competition as being more than just Sabers. The chances are Sidious would effortlessly force stomp Skywalker, therefore he can't compete. That in no way, shape or form means he can't compete in any way whatsoever, or that he specifically can't compete in a Pure Saber match up.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
We all know, that this fight was far from even. Windu just told her, that she's no match for him, she agreed and ran away.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sure thing, bro. If Bulq had ran after he hurled Mace, he'd won as well. 😂 As I said, the duel was inconclusive. Mace never gained any advantage by being more skilled.
Yes he did.
Bulq TKs; Mace keeps fighting
Mace TKs; Bulq is unconscious.
Mace deals with Bulq with ease and then goes on to **** Ventress' day up as well.
When Dooku was still in the Order, dumbo.
Uhhh no that's also after Dooku left. Read Dark Rendezvous.
Dismissing it with no basis is a nice comeback. Concession accepted.
No I am dismissing it because Dooku not killing Kenobi has NOTHING to do with Bulq not killing Windu. Why? Because Dooku died, Bulq was still alive.
Lucas said nothing about exceptions. He makes it clear that ''You have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor'', Lucas says. '' In fact, he goes on to say that Anakin [b]could have beaten Sidious if he hadn't suffered injuries.
That isn't helping your argument that Anakin is faster. Maybe you should sit down and think this out.
Because of the mechanics of Vaapad. But let's ignore that.
And because of Shatterpoint. Which are a part of Mace's skillset not some godsend.
No, he didn't They fought evenly, then Ventress runs.
You just earlier said Dooku lost to Yoda because he ran. Ventress admitted inferiority and ran even faster than when Dooku ran against Yoda.
LOL @ relying on a TV show for speed.
Yeah don't give me that double standard nonsense. You cite Anakin's feat of moving that battlestation all the time. 😆
Lol. You say it as if it's something special. Maul easily dodged blaster bolts as teenager. 😬\
When you are dodging multiple from an army, yes it is special.
Inconsistent with his other feats.
Canon. And not inconsistent for the man who disarmed the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
Because of the mechanics of Vaapad. But let's ignore that.
Lul because Mace having Vaapad is a one time thing. Please.
Do you even know how to compare characters and their abilities? We compare their feats. Very simple.
This is not narutoforums OBD.
Star Wars has a little thing called artistic liberties. Just because one artist draws Anakin swirling a saber around quickly doesn't mean he's faster than Yoda. Comic book artists draw things differently.
Mace swirling his saber around isn't a feat. Him defeating Sidious is.
Also only a moron only uses feats to compare characters, hype and portrayal are equally if not more important.
And yes the quote about Qui-Gon is BS. I have searched high and low and found none of it.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Bulq is unconscious.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Uhhh no that's also after Dooku left.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Read Dark Rendezvous.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
No I am dismissing it because Dooku not killing Kenobi has NOTHING to do with Bulq not killing Windu. Why? Because Dooku died, Bulq was still alive.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
That isn't helping your argument that Anakin is faster. Maybe you should sit down and think this out.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
And because of Shatterpoint. Which are a part of Mace's skillset not some godsend.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
You just earlier said Dooku lost to Yoda because he ran. Ventress admitted inferiority and ran even faster than when Dooku ran against Yoda.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yeah don't give me that double standard nonsense. You cite Anakin's feat of moving that battlestation all the time. 😆
Originally posted by Me
LOL @ relying on a TV show for speed.
Originally posted by You
Yeah don't give me that double standard nonsense. You cite Anakin's feat of moving that battlestation all the time.
Citing a media is completely different by the virtue of what is getting cited. Relying on TCW/OCW/movies for speed is as stupid as it gets.
Originally posted by You
When you are dodging multiple from an army, yes it is special.
Originally posted by You
Canon. And not inconsistent for the man who disarmed the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
Originally posted by You
Lul because Mace having Vaapad is a one time thing. Please.
Originally posted by You
Just because one artist draws Anakin swirling a saber around quickly doesn't mean he's faster than Yoda.
Originally posted by You
Mace swirling his saber around isn't a feat.
Originally posted by You
Him defeating Sidious is.
Originally posted by You
Also only a moron only uses feats to compare characters,
Originally posted by You
hype and portrayal are equally if not more important.
Originally posted by You
And yes the quote about Qui-Gon is BS. I have searched high and low and found none of it.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
[B]Except no such thing is shown. If you'd read the relevant source material, you'd have known. The three pages after Mace hurls Bulq focuses on Mace and Ventress. It is the fourth page after that we see Bulq, and he is standing just fine with no injures.
He was still KO'd otherwise his sabers wouldn't have been deactivated.
Not true.
Yes it is. Read Dark Rendezvous.
"Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground"
I have a few times. A nice read, but not relevant to this discussion.
What is relevant to this discussion? You aren't arguing anything except for really bad circular logic. You are arguing Anakin is faster than Mace, then arguing that Anakin can't compete with Sidious.
-snip-
No matter how many red herrings you throw into this debate it won't change the fact that they don't help your argument. None of those have to do with Sora Bulq losing to Mace Windu. It took him an entire fight with Ventress to regain consciousness.
It was never meant to. Are you even paying attention to my posts? You said that Anakin's state of mind was the reason he was unable to see Sidious and Mace move without proof. I direct you to Lucas' statement that Anakin can't compete with Sidious no matter what circumstances since any exceptions aren't noted.
Uhh yeah he was bordering on consciousness *minutes* before the duel. Do you seriously think that had nothing to do with it?
A shatterpoint he found only because Anakin was there.
You are missing the point.
Nobody is saying Ventress isn't inferior. But it remains that they fought evenly with neither gaining the advantage.
They were not fighting evenly. Windu cornered her onto a cliff in seconds.
Citing a media is completely different by the virtue of what is getting cited. Relying on TCW/OCW/movies for speed is as stupid as it gets.
Lol trying to justify a double standard. If you are going to use it for one showing you can't downplay it because it hurts your argument in another.
Do you have a link?
Go on youtube. The clips are there.
If by ''manhandling'' you meant his TK feats on Dantoonie, then yes, it is an inconsistency. Mace failed to move a landslide to save a few civilians in [/i]Shatterpoint[/i].
And Yoda struggled to lift a crane in AOTC. We all know that's not the limit for the most powerful Jedi.
Do you even understand how Vaapad works? Mace channels the darkness within him to a weapon of light. The more darkness within him, the more he can channel/amp himself with. When he fought Sidious, the darkness within him was significantly higher than normal.
Prove this.
No, because Yoda has swirled his saber around quicker than Anakin.
Do you have any idea how retarded that sounds? And also scans for this.
-snip-
I don't know what your personal vendetta against Windu is but it ends here and now. The man has been confirmed by multiple sources to be one of the top 3 of the PT Jedi Order. The others being Dooku and Yoda. Now Anakin rivals these individuals and when the circumstances present themselves (in teh zone) he can even surpass the bottom 2. That does not automatically mean Anakin is faster than Mace and Dooku no matter the time and place.
Also. Your argument style is quite honestly pathetic. You've bashed me for using the Clone Wars, when you yourself have used it to shamelessly wank Skywalker in other threads. You think a character feat involves twirling a lightsaber around. You take source material and ignore certain aspects for your own benefit. And worst of all you dismiss Mace's defeat of Palpatine under the "lol Vaapad" argument without even understanding how it works. So when you get Anakin's pretty boy cock from betwixt your lips message me and I'll debate you. Otherwise change your username to Padme Amidala. At least then your wank of Anakin would be justified by some legal measure.
Merry Christmas Padme. Your rebuttal will probably not be responded to.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
But the problem is that Mace's Force feats at best are equal to Savage's and Maul's showings individually, not both at the same time. Anakin's Force feats are vastly better than Mace's as well.
He has better force feats than Maul/Savage. What Savage displayed in a huge fit of rage in the episode "Witches of the Mist" when he floored 3 Destroyer droids, several battle droids and 2 Jedi in one force wave, was his best feat. And considering it was in a fit if rage suggests it was a one off.
Whilst on Ryloth- Mace in a more focused force blast completely crushed 2 destroyer droids and several other droids. Highlight on the completely crushed, and not just flooring them like Opress did. So you can bet most Jedi in the path of that force wave that would be floored to say the least. And that was just Mace displaying his normal power, meaning he could do that any time.
Also not getting instantly force owned by Sidious and us being told by Lucas that Mace can compete with Sidious, is all the proof we need that Mace's force powers are above Maul and Opress (individually at least).
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Mace's words has no relevance when they do not depict what was shown.
It was Ventress's own admission as well, and the fact that she ran because she knew she was no match for him.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
He was still KO'd otherwise his sabers wouldn't have been deactivated.
No, not necessarily. Skywalker's saber was deactivated when he took a massive force attack from Dooku, but he was still concious and able to fight.
Similarly Kenobi and Skywalker's Sabers were deactivated after taking a force blast from from Opress but they were not knocked out and still fully capable of carrying on the fight. Kenobi's sabers were also deactiavted after Maul force pinned him, but he was still able to reactivate them in time to block the attacks of Maul/Opress and chop Opress's arm off.
