^ I think it's both tbh. Neither Luke or Anakin were doing Jedi mind tricks or Telekinesis prior to getting taught by a Jedi.
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Why is that better. I don't need that answered for me right away. It's a trilogy.
Because that's the obvious conclusion, so best to get it out of the way. Instead of saving it for a "I am you Father" moment in the second episode of the Trilogy.
If they shock us with who her Father is however...
Originally posted by Darth ThorWe all saw exactly what training Obi-Wan gave Luke. It was almost nothing. He gave him a light saber and basically had him train against the training sphere. Not once was it shown that Obi-Wan showed Luke how to use telekinesis. In fact, it was shown Luke just willed his saber to himself with the force in ESB. No training required.
^ I think it's both tbh. Neither Luke or Anakin were doing Jedi mind tricks or Telekinesis prior to getting taught by a Jedi.
An obvious conclusion? Not really. It's the most likely however. I personally enjoy speculating on it for the time being; especially because TFA already spoon fed us alot of information.
Because that's the obvious conclusion, so best to get it out of the way. Instead of saving it for a "I am you Father" moment in the second episode of the Trilogy.If they shock us with who her Father is however...
Originally posted by Darth ThorWe can't speculate on what training Obi-Wan may or may not have given Luke; except for what was shown. If we're complaining about Rey not having training (even though it's possible she may have at one point) because we don't see it on screen, the same applies to Luke.
Did we?Because he was already training when the scene started.
Anyway I'm not going to argue about this. I'm just not a fan of how this movie has simplified the need for Force Training.
Also, Luke had the force guide those torpedoes into the Death Star. Again, something Obi-Wan never showed him. The Force works in mysterious ways. Also, as was stated earlier; Force training isn't the same as Jedi training.
ben put a blast-shield over luke's face, and told him not to trust his eyes.
the most basic vague non-instruction, yet luke blocks 3 consecutive blasts. it's pretty clear from ep4 that the force isnt very complicated to grasp if one has the talent.
luke was never taught telekinesis by ben, yet he just picked it up in ESB, possible even as early as ANH, if he guided those torpedoes.
what bugged me was the SPEED in which she gathered these abilities.
Originally posted by Darth ThorIt has already been pointed out how in the heat of the moment the force was used by Luke to destroy the friggin Death Star. It's a mystical force that guides you. How don't you get that ? You proclaim to be a Star Wars fan yet you don't get it.
Did we?Because he was already training when the scene started.
Anyway I'm not going to argue about this. I'm just not a fan of how this movie has simplified the need for Force Training.
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
We can't speculate on what training Obi-Wan may or may not have given Luke; except for what was shown. If we're complaining about Rey not having training (even though it's possible she may have at one point) because we don't see it on screen, the same applies to Luke.
The difference is WE KNOW Luke got training, and didn't see him do anything exceptional until he did. Further than that you're right we can't speculate the Extent of his training, but it's not like he was using advanced Telekinesis or Mind tricks at that point.
I've already suggested many times Rey probably had training as a child, and that would make the whole situation completely different.
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Also, Luke had the force guide those torpedoes into the Death Star. Again, something Obi-Wan never showed him. The Force works in mysterious ways. Also, as was stated earlier; Force training isn't the same as Jedi training.
Obi-Wan did guide him though. That was a combination of his natural ability and the new doors "to a much larger world" that Old Ben had opened up for him. And he still needed Ben's Ghost to tell him that while attempting the shot.
Using the Force for piloting is something that can be used quite naturally (to an extent, but not to perfection) as has been established.
This however, doing advanced telekinesis and mind tricks without any training at all is a completely new concept this movie has introduced (if it is the case that she's had no prior training).
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
ben put a blast-shield over luke's face, and told him not to trust his eyes.
the most basic vague non-instruction, yet luke blocks 3 consecutive blasts.
No actually Luke still got shot.
The Ben tells him to reach out through his feelings, and he blocks the 3 shots. That was obviously the most basic use of the force, and still he needed Ben to guide him through that otherwise he was just getting hit.
Originally posted by Bashar Tegluke was never taught telekinesis by ben, yet he just picked it up in ESB,
That was years later though. At least we know he took what Ben taught him and carried his training on himself for a few years.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
The difference is WE KNOW Luke got training, and didn't see him do anything exceptional until he did.
let's not be too hasty about that. luke was already a very accomplished pilot, like his father. remember quigon said "He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a Jedi trait." referring to anakin's podracing. granted, neither anakin nor luke consciously knew they were using the force, but it's pretty clear that they were doing just that.
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
let's not be too hasty about that. luke was already a very accomplished pilot, like his father. remember quigon said "He can see things before they happen. That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a Jedi trait." referring to anakin's podracing. granted, neither anakin nor luke consciously knew they were using the force, but it's pretty clear that they were doing just that.
Yes but there was only so far they could take that without at least "guidance".
Anakin had never actually finished a pod race before he received guidance from Qui-Gon.
Luke was getting shot by that probe until his full lesson from Obi-Wan.
Neither of them were using Telekinesis or doing Mind Tricks in TPM or ANH.
Originally posted by Quincy
So what do you folks consider the meaning behind the title?
The Force Awakening in Rey.
Originally posted by Darth ThorDoesn't matter. The force isn't tied down to how you want it to behave. As I've said, it works differently for different people. Might Rey have had some prior training? Perhaps. But even if she didn't it's not that big a deal. The Force just might be stronger in her than any other Jedi to date...especially if she's a Skywalker child.
The difference is WE KNOW Luke got training, and didn't see him do anything exceptional until he did. Further than that you're right we can't speculate the Extent of his training, but it's not like he was using advanced Telekinesis or Mind tricks at that point.
Yes, you're quite clear that the only way you will accept the circumstances is if she had prior training. Ignore the fact that Luke used Force pull without being shown/told how. Or Anakin doing something no human in history could do without training.
I've already suggested many times Rey probably had training as a child, and that would make the whole situation completely different.
That feat easily trumps anything Rey did in the entire film. And it still wasn't really training. It was more like cheer leading. Obi-Wan basically just said "let go, trust the Force". He didn't direct him HOW to do it or physically show him. Also, Rey heard voices when she touched the Lightsaber. It's very possible those voices were force ghosts influencing her even then.
Obi-Wan did guide him though. That was a combination of his natural ability and the new doors "to a much larger world" that Old Ben had opened up for him. And he still needed Ben's Ghost to tell him that while attempting the shot.
Using the Force for piloting is something that can be used quite naturally (to an extent, but not to perfection) as has been established.I won't let you downplay this. NO HUMAN IN HISTORY was able to pilot a pod racer. Anakin as a child with no training, was not only able to pilot a pod but do it better than most aliens. There was 0 training involved.
This however, doing advanced telekinesis and mind tricks without any training at all is a completely new concept this movie has introduced (if it is the case that she's had no prior training).No, it's not. Luke never was told how to force pull objects to himself. he just focused and did it. Much like Rey in a desperate moment, she was able to get it.
Lol WHAT training. As I said before, Obi-Wan gave Luke next to nothing in terms of training. A few encouraging words and that's about it.
That was years later though. At least we know he took what Ben taught him and carried his training on himself for a few years.
Originally posted by QuincySame. I'm interested to know what went down that fateful night. Did they attack all of Luke's trainees whilst they slept? Was Snoke involved directly? How was Luke not able to beat them? Was he even there at the time? So many questions....
I'm really interested getting to learn more about the Knights of Ren