Originally posted by Astner
So J.J. Abrams is not directing Episode VIII. Am I the only one who sees the problem here?
yes... I have no problem with Rian Johnson and Colin Trevorrow directing ep 8 and ep 9 respectively.. It is a good thing to have someone else put their own stamp on a film in a trilogy,,,, the problem will be is how can Rian Johnson top The Force Awakens...
Originally posted by queeq
😂Maybe the next SW movie gets a little less fan pleasing. I love TFA, but a little less nostalgia/reference/copying would be welcome. JJ does not have a good reputation on that field (see: Super 8 and the nefarious Star Trek: Into Darkness).
I think Rian Johnson will do a god job with ep 8
Originally posted by AstnerThe difference of course is that Revan had a reason to wear a mask. He put it on to shield off his humanity to fight the Mandalorians, and he swore to keep it on until there was justice.
Kylo wears his as an homage to Vader since he's the #1 Vader fanboy. That's also a reason.
Originally posted by AstnerI didn't say episode seven was great but I enjoyed it. Your overstated opinion kinda sucks tbh. No one gives a shit about what you like.
Episode VIII could be Jar Jar jerking it to the screen for two hours straight and ending with him ejaculating over the camera lens and you'd still praise it.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
That might be the case if the heroes weren't also backwards looking and whose journey's are framed as being forced to live up to our former heroes legends(which shouldn't be hard---our old heroes were failures). Whether one likes Rey or not, and I don't, she has less of a choice in the proceedings than Kylo Ben. She must live up to Luke Skywalker's legacy and the film doesn't think that is a bad thing.
You're overstating that. As Astner points out, Finn and Poe aren't tied down in nostalgia outside of their superficial trappings as a Stormtrooper and X-Wing Pilot. They, along with eventually Rey, represent the future, not the past. And yeah, the film doesn't think all nostalgia is a bad thing. Because it isn't. Obsessive, destructive nostalgia's are shown to be negative while things like Rey and Finn's reverence for the old heroes are positives to be celebrated.
Rey's struggle throughout the movie is based around her conflict with the past. She's introduced scavenging from the relics of the past and in her leisure we see that she owns a Rebel pilot helmet like Luke's and a doll resembling him as well. She also keeps track of time like a prisoner would, scratching days on her wall. She strands herself on Jakku willingly in the delusional idea that the past will come back to her and refuses to create a new future by letting go of that. When she experiences her visions she's confronted by scenes from her past that pain her to revisit as well as horrible events tied to the lightsabers history. When Maz forces her to accept that the people from her past aren't coming back she's distraught yet when told to embrace her destiny/future she flees instead. The rest of the movie shows us Rey overcoming this and changing into a hero in her own right. When the First Order attacks, she fights back. When Kylo Ren interrogates her, she turns the tables on her. Instead of reject her Jedi powers, she explores them. Finally she stands against evil as a Jedi Knight. She's successfully moved on and the film ends with her willingly walking towards her destiny. I disagree that she's forced to do anything. She chooses to protect BB-8. She chooses to fight to protect him. She chooses to use the Force. She chooses to go train with Luke. Just like Finn chooses to be a hero and Ren chooses to be a monster. She's not living up to Luke's legacy, the things she does, she does by herself.
During the final confrontation Kylo Ren says two important things: "Han Solo can't save you now" and "It's just us now." The climax of the movie is Kylo Ren and Rey completing their evolution and establishing themselves as the new future. Ren rejects his past as Ben Solo and irrevocably establishes himself as a monstrous force of evil in his own right. He's not playing at being Vader anymore. His mask is off for the fight. It's all on him. And Rey isn't playing at Han Solo or Luke Skywalker. Han Solo is dead and Luke is absent. When she fights Ren she stands there in her own right, finally accepting her own power and destiny without anyone to rely on but herself. The torch has been passed and will continue to be so in Ep 8. The film succeeds (imo) in this aspect. It celebrates the old while highlighting why it's time for something new and skillfully sets up the new characters to take up the mantle.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
The film itself is also horribly backwards looking and trying to live up to legacy so whatever snide commentary they have is lost. Calling Kylo Ben pathetic for trying to emulate Vader loses some bite when the whole film is trying to emulate the creation of some punk movie brat in the 70's. Same droid with a thing missing, same super weapon(though Freud would have a few things to say about it), same locales meant to hearken back to the good old days, same heroes fighting the good fight(Leia), same scoundrels in debt, same Jedi with a different name(Luke instead of Yoda), same old school writer, same composer, and ultimately the galaxy remains the same 30 years later with a resistance and a First Order instead of a rebellion and an empire.So if Kylo Ben being a loser is supposed to be a comment about fanboys who never leave their comfort zone, then it is a pretty weak comment. This film is all about being in the very same comfort zone and bending in every way to make it just right for their fans to feel comfy.
Also don't be sexist.
Like I said, the movie clearly has different opinions about the different kinds of nostalgia. The core of Star Wars is something to be celebrated and the heart and soul of the series was in desperate need of being recaptured. Nostalgia is good. The movie echoes a lot of previous elements because that stuffs (mostly) great! But nostalgia can also be destructive. Pricks ruin everything. Just because the movie is critical of one aspect doesn't mean it extends to the whole concept.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah Abrams was just being Unoriginal. But I give you credit for trying to find a deeper meaning to his Unoriginality.After your whinging of the Prequels for the past decade I find your inability to take a bit of criticism on this completely Unoriginal film pretty hilarious.
Yeah keep pretending you knew what the Clone Wars was all about since you saw ANH. There was all sorts of crazy theories just a couple of years before AOTC. The main one being that Sidious makes evil Jedi clones to fight the Jedi. A Clone Trooper Army was certainly not top of the list.
The reference in this movie would make no sense unless you've seen AOTC/ROTS. They referenced the PT in this movie, and not for the first/only time. Quit whinging about it.
I like how you keep using capital letters for Original and Unorginal. As if they're sacred or something. It's just a funny thing to do I think.
But naw, the film is pretty damn blatant about tying a lot of shit into the theme about the past. It's definitely deliberate.
The difference is that the prequels suck and raped my childhood. TFA was good and cool, actually.
When the concept of a clone war has already been established, it's not a praiseworthy bit of innovation to establish that its a war with clones in it.
What reference? Huh? What am I whinging about?
Originally posted by Astner
Just because it was poorly written doesn't mean that it's a bad movie. Secondly, I never considered new designs to be concepts integral to the setting. The only time I brought up designs was when Teg said that he thought all designs were similar or looked like prototypes in the prequels. But redesigns in terms of droids, lightsabers, vehicles etc. aren't new concepts.
Don't quibble, you're calling it poorly written just because it doesn't tell us how many Knights of Ren there can be. If introducing new concepts was a mark of quality, Highlander II: The Quickening wouldn't be the festering pile of shit that it is.
Originally posted by Astner
None of these are new concepts.
C3PO's arm transcends the physical plane, fool!
Originally posted by Astner
Which is the same mistake the prequels did, the Force was not about specific powers until the prequels came around and decided that the lightning the Emperor sapped Luke with wasn't so much one in a thousand ways for the Emperor to torture Luke, but rather a specific ability that that's unlocked when you reach Sith Lord level 11.That said, Darth Vader did stop a Blaster bolt in The Empire Strikes back; and the mind-reading contradicts A New Hope.
The movie doesn't do that though. Kylo Ren doesn't use lightning, he freezes shit. Far from making a previously unique ability commonplace, he shows us something new.
Vader reads Luke's mind in RotJ, actually. Ren just does it cooler.
Originally posted by Astner
As far as we know the Knights of Ren are Sith with a new label slapped onto it. No difference between the two has been established.
There's no Rule of Two for the Knights of Ren though. And no indication that they're identical to Sith. You're just being disingenuous. The fact is that they're a new order.
Originally posted by Astner
You mean like every Podracer?
Podracers are aliens with superior reflexes to humans, not force sensitives.
Originally posted by Astner
Then how is it a new concept?
Its a new concept for an evil army to be trained in that matter.
Originally posted by Astner
What?
Han jumping to lightspeed inside a hangar and approaching a planet at lightspeed to get through shields.
Originally posted by Astner
You mean like Anakin and Luke with the Dark Side but reversed? Yeah, that's a bit of a stretch.
Yeah and flying is just gravity reversed. It's not a stretch, its something new that we haven't seen before. A reversal of a classic idea can easily stand as an idea in and of itself.
Originally posted by Astner
Bullshit. And I can prove it with two names without even criticizing your cherry-pciking: Finn and Poe. Two of the three main characters are not clinging to the past or invoke any sense of nostalgia.
A theme doesn't have to be all-encompassing to be present. Finn and Poe are meant to represent the new, not the old.
Although the fact is that Finn was part of the Empire-revival remnant and Poe is an X-Wing pilot for the rebellion 2.0....
Originally posted by Astner
And I don't know how many times I've heard the excuse "the movie was good because it was intentionally bad." This is just something some idiot decided to read into the movie because of how lackluster it was.
I find your lack of faith disturbing. Prove me wrong if you want. The theme of the past and of nostalgia is integral to the movie. You'll see. You'll seeeeeeeee~
Originally posted by Astner
Yes the Clone Wars was mentioned, but the clone concept wasn't established.
Clones being used in the "Clone Wars" isn't an innovative idea that deserves praise.
Edit: Sorry for spelling and other mistakes. I didn't get a lot of sleep last night.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You're overstating that. As Astner points out, Finn and Poe aren't tied down in nostalgia outside of their superficial trappings as a Stormtrooper and X-Wing Pilot. They, along with eventually Rey, represent the future, not the past. And yeah, the film doesn't think all nostalgia is a bad thing. Because it isn't. Obsessive, destructive nostalgia's are shown to be negative while things like Rey and Finn's reverence for the old heroes are positives to be celebrated.Rey's struggle throughout the movie is based around her conflict with the past. She's introduced scavenging from the relics of the past and in her leisure we see that she owns a Rebel pilot helmet like Luke's and a doll resembling him as well. She also keeps track of time like a prisoner would, scratching days on her wall. She strands herself on Jakku willingly in the delusional idea that the past will come back to her and refuses to create a new future by letting go of that. When she experiences her visions she's confronted by scenes from her past that pain her to revisit as well as horrible events tied to the lightsabers history. When Maz forces her to accept that the people from her past aren't coming back she's distraught yet when told to embrace her destiny/future she flees instead. The rest of the movie shows us Rey overcoming this and changing into a hero in her own right. When the First Order attacks, she fights back. When Kylo Ren interrogates her, she turns the tables on her. Instead of reject her Jedi powers, she explores them. Finally she stands against evil as a Jedi Knight. She's successfully moved on and the film ends with her willingly walking towards her destiny. I disagree that she's forced to do anything. She chooses to protect BB-8. She chooses to fight to protect him. She chooses to use the Force. She chooses to go train with Luke. Just like Finn chooses to be a hero and Ren chooses to be a monster. She's not living up to Luke's legacy, the things she does, she does by herself.
During the final confrontation Kylo Ren says two important things: "Han Solo can't save you now" and "It's just us now." The climax of the movie is Kylo Ren and Rey completing their evolution and establishing themselves as the new future. Ren rejects his past as Ben Solo and irrevocably establishes himself as a monstrous force of evil in his own right. He's not playing at being Vader anymore. His mask is off for the fight. It's all on him. And Rey isn't playing at Han Solo or Luke Skywalker. Han Solo is dead and Luke is absent. When she fights Ren she stands there in her own right, finally accepting her own power and destiny without anyone to rely on but herself. The torch has been passed and will continue to be so in Ep 8. The film succeeds (imo) in this aspect. It celebrates the old while highlighting why it's time for something new and skillfully sets up the new characters to take up the mantle.
👆
Interesting. I hadn't thought about this before.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The difference is that the prequels suck and raped my childhood. TFA was good and cool, actually.
😂