Star Wars: The Force Awakens

I think I've heard of that phenomenon. I believe it happened to TPM. uhuh

I'm kidding of course but if someone changes their opinions on the movie based on what they feel to be well reasoned arguments then I don't see any particular problems with that. Tastes change, people have different perspectives, some are better versed in cinema, some know Star Wars inside and out, etc. I used to think TPM was pretty good but arguments convinced otherwise(though it should be noted that I was like 13 when I first saw it). Never be afraid to be open minded.

As it stands TFA is a perfectly serviceable romp with some pacing problems and a plot that recycles more than the previous 5 films were one to recycle. You can do a lot worse. If I didn't sort of hate it, I really wouldn't see the big deal.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Who said anything about "criticism"? I said "HATE". 2 diff words, buddy. The movie wasn't perfect (and ppl are free to criticize). But def not hate deserving. Again, not mentioning anyone specifically.

Well that's subjective, don't you think. Personally I don't believe in outright "hating". The studio will obviously do what they think is best.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
And why should it bother me? What should I have been expecting? Nothing (well almost nothing) is original in storytelling anymore. The fact that it heavily borrowed from the first movie means that they were trying to take advantage of the nostalgia factor (w/c this franchise certainly has a crapton of). And nothing's wrong with that. At the end of the day, it's always about HOW a story is telling that matters and the emotions you are able to relay that matters.

I think the nostalgia factor was pretty much there as soon as you see Han, Chewie and the Millennium Falcon. So there was honestly no need to copy actual plot points from ANH on top Imo. Especially when it tries so hard that it doesn't even make sense in certain places.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Not sure where you got that it somehow affected "my own experience" or something. In fact, me saying it means that I'm not part of the group that has had their experienced tarnished by silly things like negative forum posts or post-movie cynicism. I was talking to ppl that subconsciously did (and yes, it's an online phenomenon where many ppl who loved the movie suddenly did a 180 as soon as they read about ppl posting negative stuff online. A stupid phenomenon, sure. But it happens. Check online if you don't believe me.).

Doubt the 180 degree turns have been as bad for this as with the PT tbh.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well that's subjective, don't you think. Personally I don't believe in outright "hating". The studio will obviously do what they think is best.

I think the nostalgia factor was pretty much there as soon as you see Han, Chewie and the Millennium Falcon. So there was honestly no need to copy actual plot points from ANH on top Imo. Especially when it tries so hard that it doesn't even make sense in certain places.

Doubt the 180 degree turns have been as bad for this as with the PT tbh.

Originally posted by 80sBaby
Well, her connection to Anakin's lightsaber, the fact Maz made it clear it was passed down along family lines and Rey's ridiculous connection to the Force.

Well, the Force led QGJ through a very complicated and inexplicable taxation blockade on Naboo to Tatooine where it took a double incomprehensible bet to free Anakin.

I think the Force using a Jedi's weapon to guide someone to its last user is much simpler.

Plus Maz said about Rey's parents that the one's she was waiting for would never return. But 'someone' could... i.e. a Jedi Master whol could teach her.

There is also the thing of reading too much in certain events.

Originally posted by queeq
Well, the Force led QGJ through a very complicated and inexplicable taxation blockade on Naboo to Tatooine where it took a double incomprehensible bet to free Anakin.

I think the Force using a Jedi's weapon to guide someone to its last user is much simpler.

Well, if you put it that way, it seems bad. But you're not fairly representing either side.

In QGJ's case, he was sent on a peace-keeping mission. It didn't really have anything at all do with the Force directing them. If we are to be honest, it was the future Emperor manipulating politics so that he could rise to power. That's actually why QGJ and Obi-Wan ended up on Naboo.

And they escaped Naboo just barely. They needed a new hyperdrive and Tatooine was the closest/best bet to Naboo. That's not the force directing them, that's stopping off at the nearest gas-station to refuel because some road pirates just shot your gas tank as you were escaping them (to use a comparison).

The only time The Force really guided QGJ in the plot that you talk about was when he sensed The Force in Anakin. That's when QGJ become almost obsessed with the boy.

So, really, I could reword your argument, fairly, like so:

"The Force only came into play when QGJ sensed how powerful Anakin was in The Force.

But in TFA, we have an incomprehensible sub-plot surrounding Anakin's lightsaber. It passes from Anakin to some unknown place for a while, then into Obi Wan's hands, then into Luke's hands, then into the bottom of a station in Cloud City after Luke's hand gets cut off, and then to a far away planet into a storage locker at Maz's place that Rey just HAPPENS to arbitrarily run across to get her Force Vision. And how did she arbitarily run across that saber? She was dropped on Tatooi...I mean Jakku when she was a kid. Grew up on Jakku to an adult. Then Jakku had a town that just so happened to be near enough to Rey that she got involved with the attack on that town by the Storm Troppers. Then she got entwinned with a defecting Storm Trooper that just so happened to crash land on Jakku near the settlement where Rey was. And then she happened to end up crossing paths with the Millenium Falcon. And then she just so happened to run across paths with Han Solo. And then she just so happened to be told by Han Solo that Maz's place would be a great place to go to. And now we come full-circle on how she actually ran across that lightsaber. Now that's some convoluted plot right there. How the hell did they retrieve the lightsaber in Cloud City, anyway?"

Pretty fun, right, when we put into perspective how convoluted the lightsaber situation is, huh?

Originally posted by dadudemon

The only time The Force really guided QGJ in the plot that you talk about was when he sensed The Force in Anakin. That's when QGJ become almost obsessed with the boy.

Whether or not that still counts as the Force guiding a character in the plot is subjective, I guess.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can't let go of the hate.

😂

Kylo is one of the best sith in terms of character.

I dunno about that...

He has at least one episode more to appear in, so maybe he'll turn out to be one of the best. As for now, he's not.

I liked his voice.

I liked his voice, too... when he was wearing the mask.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I liked his voice.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I liked his voice, too... when he was wearing the mask.

Did you like his voice more than Snoke's ?

I loved Snoke's voice.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Did you like his voice more than Snoke's ?

I loved Snoke's voice.

Yes.

Serkis definitely has the potential to outshine him, though. Holo-transmission does not count as a full appearance, good thing we'll get much more of him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
With the helmet on, helmet off, or both ?

Both, with the helmet on rivaled Vadars with his helmet on and with kylo and Vadars helmet off, Kylos was still bad ass.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Both, with the helmet on rivaled Vadars with his helmet on and with kylo and Vadars helmet off, Kylos was still bad ass.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Agreed with your 1st and 3rd point. But Maz's statement certainly wasn't all that clear. She said her parents are never coming back for her, but that she should look forward to her future with Luke, which could just mean in the Jedi Master/Apprentice relationship she's destined for.

Maz never said her "parents." She said that who Rey was waiting for wasn't coming to Jakku. She then said that perhaps what Rey was looking for was in front of her, not behind her.

And you do make a good point but then why would Maz mention how the saber was passed down via bloodlines? She could've simply said it was Luke's.

YouTube video

Kylo made the movie, the second was fin, third was ren.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
1) Well that's subjective, don't you think. Personally I don't believe in outright "hating". The studio will obviously do what they think is best.

2) I think the nostalgia factor was pretty much there as soon as you see Han, Chewie and the Millennium Falcon. So there was honestly no need to copy actual plot points from ANH on top Imo. Especially when it tries so hard that it doesn't even make sense in certain places.

3) Doubt the 180 degree turns have been as bad for this as with the PT tbh.

1) One's opinion of a movie is subjective, yes. The difference between "hate" and "criicism" is not. If you don't believe in "hating", then my comment wasn't addressed to you.

2) You "think" there wasn't a need, but it is not up to you. Criticising a movie due to it not falling within your very specific criteria of what is acceptable is kinda petty don't you think (you're welcome to it, sure, but it just seems a little petty to me)? Other ppl have different opinions and some ppl def enjoyed that part even tho they were a bit heavy handed with it (me being one of them).

3) Annnnd your point being?