Originally posted by Nephthys
So whats your point? If Mace is above Ventress by a bit and also above Cade by a bit and Talon has beaten or equaled Cade then isn't my original argument accurate?
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Or maybe Mace is overrated, and the difference between duelists of his caliber and Ventress' caliber has been overblown?
Dude there's a huge difference between Mace and Ventress.
Mace is Dooku level (at least), and Jedi/Sith on the level of Ventress/Kenobi/Opress are all no match for Dooku at all.
Originally posted by carthage
She's skilled but her duels don't really reflect it. She's consistently beaten by Cade,
Mostly in force, not saber, and Cade is >>> Ventress in force.
In Cade and Talon's first encounter, Shado made it absolutely clear that Cade was to avoid her because she'd kill him in sabers (and he did avoid her, eventually throwing a large object). When doing entirely saber when Cade was among the sith, she was Cade's teacher and scored vital blows on him with a training saber.
Even to the end, Talon was always able to provide a fight against Cade in sabers.
Ironically, Ventress has destroyed a ceiling, uprooted massive trees, and even ragdolled Kenobi, as well as caused avalanches. She's got more force abilities at her disposal, and has bested many Jedi with them including Kenobi.
I'm sure Talon has more.... lightning, strong TK, force concealment (one she's very good at), mind-reading.
Ventress pretty much only has TK and some mind tricks.
And lightning does seem like it'd be a nice edge, especially if Ventress does have trouble defending against it.
Cade and Talon's final duel. Look at that force TK- that was a flat stone floor right before.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
No? Cade has no feats to suggest he would be more than a moderate challenge for Mace,
Only if you ignore his fights against the Dark Lord of the Sith, or multiple masters at a time.
and Talon usually loses to Cade. In fact, I have lost count of the amount of victories he has over her.
4. But, again, mainly force. Aside from the session where she stabbed him in the shoulder, she was also able to taunt and evade Cade on other occasions with her acrobatics.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Legend is smarter than you.
Agreed.
Originally posted by NephthysI really wouldn't consider her losing to Cade a feat that puts her on par with Ventress.
I do not have the foggiest about this one. Ventress certainly has [b]more feats, but I'm not sure they're actually above Talons ones. Giving Cade a good fight seems to be just as good as giving any of the characters Intrepid listed a good fight. [/B]
Hell, for that matter. What are Cade's dueling accolades? Yes, yes, I'm sure he's a prodigy and a master of some bullshit, just like every other force user in the mythos, but what had he done with a blade (at the time that he beat Talon) that would put him in the same spectrum as people like Obi-Wan and Anakin?
Originally posted by Tzeentch
I really wouldn't consider her losing to Cade a feat that puts her on par with Ventress.Hell, for that matter. What are Cade's dueling accolades? Yes, yes, I'm sure he's a prodigy and a master of some bullshit, just like every other force user in the mythos, but what had he done with a blade (at the time that he beat Talon) that would put him in the same spectrum as people like Obi-Wan and Anakin?
Didn't he put up a good fight against Krayt?
Originally posted by Tzeentch
Hell, for that matter. What are Cade's dueling accolades? Yes, yes, I'm sure he's a prodigy and a master of some bullshit, just like every other force user in the mythos, but what had he done with a blade (at the time that he beat Talon) that would put him in the same spectrum as people like Obi-Wan and Anakin?
At that time? He beat Darth Nihl not long after (once he decided to quit his sith training, he detonated a durasteel block with shatterpoint, hitting Talon and Nihl, stabbed Talon in the gut, then got in a duel with Nihl and cut his arm off, followed by which Krayt beat him down), and he's gotten into clashes with a number of Jedi and Imperial Knights, most specifically Shado Vao his old friend who gets on his case for being a jerk.
Late on he does stuff like gives a hard fight to Darth Krayt post-rebirth and kills, I dunno, maybe 20 various sith throughout the series*?
Cade's useful as a guide because he does pick fights with so many other characters.
*Including ones who claim badassary, "I've killed Jedi Masters stronger than you," from what appear to be the leaders of sith contingents, and such. As well as cyborg Sith Troopers, who are rather formidable. He spends months as a Sith hunter collecting bounties on Sith in the gap between the main series and War.
