Actually heaven and Sheol are part of the same "Heavens" dimension, whereas the physical universe exists in the "Earth dimension. Says in Genesis all reality is divided into ONLY the Heavens and the Earth. In the Star Trekverse, the Heavens dimension is the Q continuum, whereas the Earth dimension is the infinite MWI multiverse.
Originally posted by Robtard
WTF. It was just 5-6 pages ago you agreed God as the combined concept would be above all other fictional characters.The film. The Q don't need to be downplayed one bit, as powerful as they are, they're not infinite, ergo they loose to the infinite being. If it makes you feel better, we can double the Q's power and call them QQ; they still loose though.
But after thinking about it, I realized that would put him above objective reality as well, and thinking that the fictional Morweh could somehow control us is insane. Thus the only logical way to judge is screenfeats.
There are levels to infinity, especially in regards to the numerous reality warpers in fiction. Q have control over a larger world. They are thus more powerful, and ergo win. You can't hide from the troof, Rob.
So Morweh is above all fictional realities, even those with universal initial conditions that differ from the Bible, with beings who proclaim themselves omnipotent and showed power levels much higher than Morweh, but objective reality gets somehow excluded. Please explain this, since you claim to have a better comprehension of Robtard's "HE CONTROLZ EVERYTHANG!!" stance. Go on.
Originally posted by Lestov16Google perennial philosophy, panentheism, mysticism, or the Absolute, for starters.
So Morweh is above all fictional realities, even those with universal initial conditions that differ from the Bible, with beings who proclaim themselves omnipotent and showed power levels much higher than Morweh, but objective reality gets somehow excluded. Please explain this, since you claim to have a better comprehension of Robtard's "HE CONTROLZ EVERYTHANG!!" stance. Go on.
Based on your previous posts, you seem to have difficulty grasping the concept of unconditional infinity (admittedly, it ain't easy). The Q are clearly not unconditionally infinite. They may be conditionally infinite in their power (eg, 1,2,3,4...), but they are not the Source+Ground+Content of All That Is+Was+Ever will be (imagine a sphere with an infinite radius, whose center is anywhere, and compare that to just a simple, infinite line).
The Q are entirely fictional. They exist in our reality purely as entertainment, whereas the fictionality/reality of God is debatable. That alone puts "God" above the Q. "God" has appeared in virtually every culture, over thousands of years, and has inspired billions of followers. If nothing else, God, even as a concept, has influenced our real world far more than the Q ever will. Indeed, the very idea of the Q, of "omnipotence," was no doubt inspired by the ages-old God concept, as was the screen presence of Morweh, Morisetteweh, GeorgeBurnsweh, etc, etc (so much for Thou Shalt Make No Graven Images).
Imho, there simply is no contest here. Never was, never will be. (And I remind you again that Time Immemorial, the thread maker, never said limit God's feats to onscreen, and indeed his posts embrace the concept of "God" Rob, dadudemon and I are talking about).
You seemed to grasp this for a moment. Far more impressive was you're willingness to entertain seeing (not necessarily agree with) the other side.
Bottom line: it's just a debate. We'll agree to disagree, and no hard feelings.
Originally posted by Mindship
whereas the fictionality/reality of God is debatable.
😆 The fictionality of the Biblical God Yahweh (on which MorganGod is based) is not debatable in the least. If Morweh presented himself as the avatar of the concept itself and not only Yahweh, if he had some dialogue in the film that indicated he was any more than the Biblical God, it would be a a different story. As it stands though, he only cited the Bible, not the Koran, not the The Vedas, only the bible, which brings one to the logical conclusion that he is only representing Yahweh, not the concept itself, in which based on biblical and screenfeats, Q is better.
but if you would like to agree to disagree, I got no problem with that. But I do not regard your argument as wrong, only a difference of interpretation, and you shouldn't regard mine as wrong either.
P.S Wanted to add that I don't think it is impossible that Morweh is the avatar of the concept itself, just that due to Bruce Almighty citing only Biblical scripture and recreation of events from only the Bible, it seems more logical to me that he is an avatar of Yahweh rather than the entirety of the concept. Like I said, it is possible he was just posing as Yahweh to be easier understood, but dialogue from the film supports the stance that he actually is Yahweh Himself, IMO at least.
Also, I disagree with the fact that a fictional being who labels themself God is above all other fictional beings, because it is just subjective hyperbole which creates a paradox with all the fictional Gods out there. Is Morweh more powerful than Alanisweh, or Burnsweh, or TOAA? They can't all be the same power level, because that would defeat the purpose of omnipotence. They aren't the same being, because the worlds they exist in have sizes, contents, and different universal initial conditions. Morweh isn't above all of them, because it would defeat the other's omnipotence, not to mention there's no way to properly scale them. Thus the only way to determine the most powerful being is to look at the actual screenfeats, rather than Biblical hyperbole, and based on those screenfeats, the Q have shown a higher power level than Morweh.
Originally posted by Lestov16
😆 The fictionality of the Biblical God Yahweh (on which MorganGod is based) is not debatable in the least. If Morweh presented himself as the avatar of the concept itself and not only Yahweh, if he had some dialogue in the film that indicated he was any more than the Biblical God, it would be a a different story. As it stands though, he only cited the Bible, not the Koran, not the The Vedas, only the bible, which brings one to the logical conclusion that he is only representing Yahweh, not the concept itself, in which based on biblical and screenfeats, Q is better.
These are good points but I was thinking that that version of God said as he said because Bruce had a Christian understanding of God so God was speaking to Bruce in the way he would best understand. You would assume that an all-knowing God would do that. 😄
Originally posted by Lestov16
Just wanted to add that as the Marvel Multiverse shows, there are levels to omnipotence, so just because a being says some hyperbole about being omnipotent doesn't mean they are to the superlative degree.
Touché
And that is a point I was making but lacked the ability to put properly into words.
Guys....guys....
There's NO way I will support Morweh anymore in this thread. He has violated my wife:
Originally posted by dadudemon
So you're angry that you've been systematically destroyed and are now in repeat mode. 🙂 My job here is done.Seriously, go back through your post and find a single new point you've made. It is literally not there. I read your post twice to be sure. I started to reply with just copying and pasting stuff I (and others) have already posted but it became too tedious. You're too far below me to deserve such attention. Like I said, level up. Move beyond your current style of posting and improve it. If you wish to be able to debate with me, you need to vastly improve. Stop getting hung up in your pettiness and focus on the points. Stop using strawman and red herring arguments. Tone down the insults or at least refocus the insults towards the points and not the person. Also, don't bring up past discussions: that's the first sign of immaturity and that you know you've lost/given up.
A good person would admit fault. A great poster would actually take the advice I have just given.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, no, you're wrong here, too. There is proof it was an illusion: Picard's body and mind were in the real world. It was most likely just an elaborate illusion (brain in a vat).
Because as mentioned before, Piccard and crew faced another alien chick which a few members of the Enterprise at first speculated to be a rogue member of the Continuum, but whom Piccard quickly deduced was just glorified conwoman.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Do you realize how huge of an uphill battle you have to prove that it wasn't an illusion when you're directly contradicted by what was seen onscreen? The burden of proof is on you to prove it was a universe.
Originally posted by dadudemon
lol, such narcissism. Sorry, bro, just not the case. If you can go back and read the thread, you had clearly posted and made a few points before I posted the stuff I did. Unrustle those jimmies. What's the matter, did I destroy you so definitively in the past that you have some PTSD so now you fear any conversation with me? 😄 😄 😄 😄
Not my first rodeo, pal. kinda
Originally posted by Lestov16how is having power over the multiverse more impressive than creating the universe that started them all?
The Trekverse is an infinite multiverse which they have screenfeats controlling, due to creating and erasing timelines.
Originally posted by Lestov16that's only because no one in "Bruce Almighty" altered time and created another reality.
the Almightyverse wasn't shown to be even close to the size of the ST verse.
How are you comfortable acknowledging the fact that God created the universe from nothing, then saying he couldn't also control something that derived from his creation?
that's like saying God created man, but because man created more men, god can't affect them.
Originally posted by marwash22
how is having power over the multiverse more impressive than creating the universe that started them all?
And there is no proof from the movie that God createc everything from nothing either.
Originally posted by EpicurusI'm not talking about Star Trek, I'm talking about what happened in "Bruce Almighty", God created the universe.
Where was it mentioned that God started the Star-Trek verse? And this time please try to avoid bringing up that ridiculous Bible explanation of yours.
Originally posted by Epicurusthe bible.
And there is no proof from the movie that God createc everything from nothing either.