Proxima Midnight Vs Supergirl

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Exactly. PM has very few appearances. And some of them aren't that impressive at all.

Lol @ using the Rhino. Oh my. The Rhino?? Damn. THE Rhino???

Also, the seismic activity seems mainly to stem from CAGE punching her, not PM punching:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/114649/3492319-cage+vs+proxima+midnight.jpg

Note how she is unable (or perhaps, you want to spin it as unwilling??) to dodge, or block. Blood, flying from her mouth. Luke Cage, who again, as I said, was blitzed by a depowered Black Panther.

So the monologuing to Captain America when he had his back turned to her, about good captains (so she OBVIOUSLY knew who they were - carver, this is directed at you - and should know about Cap's awesome shield) and actually saying farewell to them etc - thus giving Cap time to prep himself (as carver/dial suggest) for her spear in FULL view of her - this is the writer establishing what she can do, is it??

As for you great point about BS and speed, at least we have FAST showings from Supergirl (abhi posted them on page 2). What higher speed feats do we have from PM? None, as you yourself admit. So we at least know SG can move faster than when she's portrayed in comic book fights, but from PM's side - nada.

Why laugh at Rhino, he is in the things weight class, and cage one shot KO'd him. Yes he is a scrub, but he has had prolonged fights with the Hulk.

Mainly to stem from Cage hitting her? Really? So she wasn't throwing any of those punches? Is this what you're saying?

I thought that we went over Captain America's plot armor. Marvel will never allow one of their cash cows to be killed by a relatively new character. Shit I bet that Captain America could survive a blast from Galactus.

The last part has nothing to do with anything, so try hard to stay on topic. i know that it's difficult with so many people developing ADHD these days, but can we just stay on topic? It would also help loads if you stopped low balling the shit out of PM in order to strengthen your stance. Well why should you? Because her highs are staggeringly far away from her lows. We saw what she was capable at the high end, but you would prefer to point out her lower showing. I mean should we bring up SG being hurt by being tossed into a car? No of course not.

PM doesn't need to keep up with SG, and we still have no idea just how fast she is. Batman has hit Superman, and he is not nearly as fast as Kal. Do you really want to get into how many time much slower characters have hit much faster ones? Or how weaker, and less durable characters have continued moving around from a blast that would have put a much tougher character down? It's called plot.

PM is new. I won't make any claims, to bolster her speed, while on the other hand perhaps you should refrain from doing the same in terms of making her seem as slow as a turtle. This brings me back to my first post on the subject. If Supergirl wants to win this, she had better take it to Proxima early on, or she will be killed. however taking it to anyone as aggressively as I am pointing out, is not really how she acts in character. Now is it? Exactly. Supergirl would be fighting a cold blooded murderer in Proxima, and she would have to act accordingly if she wants to survive this. Proxima's spear is not common knowledge, and Supergirl would have no idea what it is capable of. this is something that an objective mind would acknowledge. Would you say that you have the ability, to look at things objectively? If not, I can certainly understand, after all, there are those incapable of doing this.

I don't have a problem with the PM's spear being fast enough to chase SG down.

Whether PM herself is fast enough to throw the spear before SG can rush her down, is something else.

Same argument as Thor's hammer flight compared to Thor.

Originally posted by cdtm
I don't have a problem with the PM's spear being fast enough to chase SG down.

Whether PM herself is fast enough to throw the spear before SG can rush her down, is something else.

Same argument as Thor's hammer flight compared to Thor.

I don't see why she wouldn't get the chance to throw the spear. Once again someone is making claims that they aren't sure of. You don't know how fast Proxima is. no one knows this yet. I am also trying to understand why people are suddenly trying to paint Supergirl as some seasoned warrior? She isn't. She's just a teenage girl with super powers. She barely has any battle experience, and in character she isn't a murderer. Proxima on the other hand is a murderer, and would take no time in making up her mind to kill SG.

I kind of hope that you don't believe that SG is going to one shot PM. Cage's assault while looking impressive did not hurt PM, and he could have easily launched SG with that attack as well. It's not as if these girls weigh so much that Cage could not launch them. Blood? Batman could kick SG in the face and draw blood. The question is whether it would have any lasting effect.

Originally posted by cdtm
I don't have a problem with the PM's spear being fast enough to chase SG down.

Whether PM herself is fast enough to throw the spear before SG can rush her down, is something else.

Same argument as Thor's hammer flight compared to Thor.

Are you implying that Supergirl would one shot her because in order for your argument to hold any weight...that is exactly what you'll have to be implying. Also, she is fast herself and extremely agile. She could probably dodge Supergirl initial blitz.

Originally posted by Stoic
Why laugh at Rhino, he is in the things weight class, and cage one shot KO'd him. Yes he is a scrub, but he has had prolonged fights with the Hulk.

Because he has better feats, surely? It was amusing that you chose Rhino, someone who is actually the definition in this forum of CIS.

Mainly to stem from Cage hitting her? Really? So she wasn't throwing any of those punches? Is this what you're saying?

I thought that we went over Captain America's plot armor. Marvel will never allow one of their cash cows to be killed by a relatively new character. Shit I bet that Captain America could survive a blast from Galactus.

The last part has nothing to do with anything, so try hard to stay on topic. i know that it's difficult with so many people developing ADHD these days, but can we just stay on topic? It would also help loads if you stopped low balling the shit out of PM in order to strengthen your stance. Well why should you? Because her highs are staggeringly far away from her lows. We saw what she was capable at the high end, but you would prefer to point out her lower showing. I mean should we bring up SG being hurt by being tossed into a car? No of course not.[/quote
IOW, you have no answer to my points. In character, PM stopped to monologue to the Captains and say goodbye to them. You have NO, I repeat, ZERO, proof, that she has the reflexes capable of dodging a bloodlusted, Red Lantern Kara. cdtm's point about Thor/Mjolnir is a good one. On the other hand, we have examples of Kara possessing the reflexes to fight at speed. Therefore, the times when Kara WAS tagged, were PIS.

[quote]
PM doesn't need to keep up with SG, and we still have no idea just how fast she is.

Batman has hit Superman, and he is not nearly as fast as Kal. Do you really want to get into how many time much slower characters have hit much faster ones? Or how weaker, and less durable characters have continued moving around from a blast that would have put a much tougher character down? It's called plot.

PM is new. I won't make any claims, to bolster her speed, while on the other hand perhaps you should refrain from doing the same in terms of making her seem as slow as a turtle.

This brings me back to my first post on the subject. If Supergirl wants to win this, she had better take it to Proxima early on, or she will be killed. however taking it to anyone as aggressively as I am pointing out, is not really how she acts in character. Now is it? Exactly.

Supergirl would be fighting a cold blooded murderer in Proxima, and she would have to act accordingly if she wants to survive this. Proxima's spear is not common knowledge, and Supergirl would have no idea what it is capable of. this is something that an objective mind would acknowledge. Would you say that you have the ability, to look at things objectively? If not, I can certainly understand, after all, there are those incapable of doing this.

Originally posted by Stoic
I don't see why she wouldn't get the chance to throw the spear. Once again someone is making claims that they aren't sure of. You don't know how fast Proxima is. no one knows this yet. I am also trying to understand why people are suddenly trying to paint Supergirl as some seasoned warrior? She isn't. She's just a teenage girl with super powers. She barely has any battle experience, and in character she isn't a murderer. Proxima on the other hand is a murderer, and would take no time in making up her mind to kill SG.

What a shy, unassuming, teenage girl:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3623325-2014-02-05+07-39-02+-+green+lantern+(2011-)+028-003.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Are you implying that Supergirl would one shot her because in order for your argument to hold any weight...that is exactly what you'll have to be implying. Also, she is fast herself and extremely agile. She could probably dodge Supergirl initial blitz.

I'm implying at her speed level, initiative is hers. That could mean anything from one punch, to an attempted beatdown like Power Girl tried (and failed with) on Mordru.

There's fast, and there's high end speedster fast.

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm implying at her speed level, initiative is hers. That could mean anything from one punch, to an attempted beatdown like Power Girl tried (and failed with) on Mordru.

There's fast, and there's high end speedster fast.

With CIS on and her fighting "in character"?

like almost ALL marvel characters speed when put up against a dc character IS an issue. at no point has PM been shown to be able to handle that level of speed, so i don't really see what the argument is. can kara ko her? THAT's different. i wonder how this would go if we simply granted hulk supergirl's proven speed......

tbh, i think the most likely outcome would be similar to the old supes vs the omega effect battle--he simply leads it BACK on darkseid. i could def see that happening here and PM getting impaled with her own weapon.

Originally posted by carver9
With CIS on and her fighting "in character"?

In character right now is Red Lantern aggression, as DS's scan a few posts up demonstrates.

@Dark - Wow. I didn't think you would be petty enough to ignore the big picture and nitpick on something irrelevant so let me reword it so we can move on. Due to pis proxima didn't throw her spear to its highest capacity. Hope that sounds better... But it really doesn't matter because proxima could have brutally murdered shuri and her soliders solo, which is why they retreated. Now what other irrelevant point would you like to make that has nothing to do with this thread?

Originally posted by cdtm
In character right now is Red Lantern aggression, as DS's scan a few posts up demonstrates.

Which makes this even worse for her since she is basically busting through every attack that is thrown at her. She is fighting like a brute...not even trying to dodge anything.

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
@Dark - Wow. I didn't think you would be petty enough to ignore the big picture and nitpick on something irrelevant so let me reword it so we can move on. Due to pis proxima didn't throw her spear to its highest capacity. Hope that sounds better... But it really doesn't matter because proxima could have brutally murdered shuri and her soliders solo, which is why they retreated. Now what other irrelevant point would you like to make that has nothing to do with this thread?

Cool.

Every low showing of hers is PIS or CIS (Cap, Wakanda, being unable to dodge Cage in NYC) and every high showing of hers is her average (Spectrum).

That is essentially your stance.

Originally posted by carver9
Which makes this even worse for her since she is basically busting through every attack that is thrown at her. She is fighting like a brute...not even trying to dodge anything.

She also has Kryptonian speed AND ring slinger speed (And they routinely travel between star systems).

Sure, if she charges into a spear, she dies. The debate, is who can shoot first.

Originally posted by carver9
Which makes this even worse for her since she is basically busting through every attack that is thrown at her. She is fighting like a brute...not even trying to dodge anything.

Which brings us neatly back to the original topic of speed. Any reaction feats of PM?

To survive a bullrush/speedblitz, you need one of three things:

1. Your own reflex speed. It's useless to try and bullrush the Flash, or Superman, for example.

2. Autoshields. Good luck trying to bullrush Constantine, or Dr Strange, or a GL (unless of course you;re THAT strong).

3. Durability. Imagine Quicksilver trying to bullrush Thanos. Lol.

So, we can pretty much assume based on being a Red Lantern, Kara will bullrush. Whilst screaming, and possibly vomiting. She will get right in PM's face the milisecond the match starts.

Does PM have ANY showings of any of the three items above?

Originally posted by cdtm
She also has Kryptonian speed AND ring slinger speed (And they routinely travel between star systems).

Sure, if she charges into a spear, she dies. The debate, is who can shoot first.

And she is still fighting Mindless...In a fashion that would make me question if she would start off with a speed blitz. Do you have scans of this version of Supergirl starting a battle off like this?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which brings us neatly back to the original topic of speed. Any reaction feats of PM?

To survive a bullrush/speedblitz, you need one of three things:

1. Your own reflex speed. It's useless to try and bullrush the Flash, or Superman, for example.

2. Autoshields. Good luck trying to bullrush Constantine, or Dr Strange, or a GL (unless of course you;re THAT strong).

3. Durability. Imagine Quicksilver trying to bullrush Thanos. Lol.

So, we can pretty much assume based on being a Red Lantern, Kara will bullrush. Whilst screaming, and possibly vomiting. She will get right in PM's face the milisecond the match starts.

Does PM have ANY showings of any of the three items above?

First show me this Supergirl starting off with a speeding invisible, can't react too bull rush. Then I will post speed fts for Proxima.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Because he has better feats, surely? It was amusing that you chose Rhino, someone who is actually the definition in this forum of CIS.

You're getting fairly aggressive - but its OK. This usually means I am getting through to you. Mainly. Not solely. SpOck didn't remark on the seismic activity until Cage started tapping into the heart force. Unless of course, PM was ALSO holding back when she was initially beating him down? And then, when Cage found his heart force, she too started throwing seismic activity level punches?

Well, you said it was the same as Batman and the Spectre - where the Spectre ALLOWED Batman to kick him.

I.e. you have no proof of these 'high-end' feats of hers. And will merely ignore the scan of her getting speared by Shuri.

Except we have scans of Kal moving fast. We have scans of Kara moving fast, so we at least know they are capable of those speeds. Your argument boils down to 'eh, PM's been hit before, but, we don't know if she was jobbing or not because she might be waaay faster than this. But we have no proof that she might be, only proof that she can be hit.

Claims? I have at least posted scans in this thread - she got speared in the shoulder by Shuri. Like I have always said, she only has three appearances, none of which showcase her as being a particular speedster or martial artist.

Red Lantern, dood. She's been chosen because she is aggressive, and has great rage in her heart. Exactly.

Well, it's hard to keep track, first I was told by dial J for Josh that she pulled her punches in Wakanda (hardly the actions of a stone cold killer) and now, you're ignoring the fact that Kara, has, on panel, been chosen to join one of the most ruthless, aggressive corps in the DC galaxy, who aren't exactly known for holding back. [/B]

Cage certainly does have better feats. One is how he survived his conflict with PM.

My point is that Kal has been hit by slower characters, and it will happen again, so has the Flash. Staying on course, the Spear will hit her, and it won't take much effort for her to throw it. Another point was to remind you that bringing up low feats is poor form. PM does not have many appearances but the ones that she has are great enough to say that she could win this. it also shows that Supergirl isn't going to be one shot ending a conflict with her.

You presented scans that only show PM getting hit by Cage, but seemingly left out the rest in order to view this as one sided as possible. PM was not hurt by his assault, but he was hurt by hers. If Thanos had not shown up, Cage would have been put down, if not outright killed. he even spoke about how she had broken his nearly indestructible bones at the end of the conflict. I believe that you brought Cage into this to somehow low ball her, because you think very little of Cage. perhaps that's just my imagination though.

She may have rage in her heart but this does not make her a blood thirsty murderer. Proxima is a cold blooded killer. This is what caused Cage to rise to the occasion. he was fighting for the little people. The Hulk is the very epitome of rage, and he is not a murderer.

I don't know what that spear was made of, and neither do you. I am speaking of the Wakadan spear head that penetrated her shoulder. Do you have any citations telling me what it spear head was made of? Could the writer have mistakenly wrote the spear as being made of vibranium without realizing that this substance had been done away with? Things like this have happened in the past in comics.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What a shy, unassuming, teenage girl:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3623325-2014-02-05+07-39-02+-+green+lantern+(2011-)+028-003.jpg [/B]

Did she kill the noob GL in that comic? Has she killed anyone to date? Proxima has, and she wouldn't hesitate in attempting to throw her spear into SG's heart for the kill. This is something that we at least know. i will go back to my first post on the subject. Read it. understand it, and come to terms that I am not saying that SG can not win this, but in order or her to win, she will have to come strong, and be relentless. if not, she may die in a conflict with someone unwilling to hold back from killing.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cool.

Every low showing of hers is PIS or CIS (Cap, Wakanda, being unable to dodge Cage in NYC) and every high showing of hers is her average (Spectrum).

That is essentially your stance.

What the hell? Her being able to stomp the queen of Wakanda and her entire army is a low showing? .... Oh ok 👆 and please I want you to go back and quote me where I even mentioned luke cage. Also Caps shield, one of the most powerful tools in the Marvel Universe which is nearly indestructible being able to deflect her spear... Yeah that's a very low showing 👆

Originally posted by carver9
First show me this Supergirl starting off with a speeding invisible, can't react too bull rush. Then I will post speed fts for Proxima.

Isn't that covered under the "full capacity" rule?

DS already posted a scan proving it's certainly in character for her to use bull rush tactics.