Blue Marvel vs Citizen Steel · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

Originally posted by Galan007
In the same issue Gog tanked this:
The impressiveness of that feat cannot be overstated.

don't get me wrong: i'm not low-balling here but technically gog can't really fall over from those three beams hitting him caise the chains are being pulled opposite from where he "would" fall.

you can get me wrong here, though: steel's punches are stronger most likely than stargirl, obsidien, jakeem thunder and lightning's beams there, at least force wise

-K-M- ...........

Originally posted by KingD19
It was never said Namor was on that level. They fought in the past, and Namor said only Thor and Hulk have ever hit him as hard as Marvel. And Adam playfully brushed it off as a lucky punch.
Marvel's creator said he was on the level of guys like Thor, Hulk and Sentry. Do you truly believe Namor is in that weight class?

Except even Marvel gave him mutual respect, and even agreed Marvel hit him with a lucky punch. Meaning he was lucky when they fought...that means they were close. Simple stuff.

Considering as mentioned Namor has stalemated Sentry before and beat Hulk.....apparently so. Shall we ignore the years of references which has listed Namor as Hulk's near equal in strength? Are you even familiar with Namor?

Stoic Avenger

Originally posted by -K-M-
Except if we go by quotes, which you all wish to do. Namor IS on that level as said in the same story. Can't pick and choose.

Is Mammoth on CS's level? Namor is most certainly not on Adam's level. You can take that scan for face value if you so choose, but until Namor is seen swatting Sentry away, and taking on a team of Avengers of that level, it's just another hyperbole statement. They are not equals. The guys that Adam beat would flat out destroy Namor.

Also the Hulk subdued Namor with one hand. The Hulk that Namor fought with all of those years ago was a far weaker Hulk than the one of today. Mindless Hulk nearly squeezed the piss out of him as well. This does not convince me of them being on the same level, or close. Thor one shot KO'd Namor as well.

So how about that Mammoth situation?

KingD19 Shai-Gen's Enigmatic Wong

Whatever team of bad guys they were fighting found out the JSA's weaknesses, like how Judomaster can't be touched in a fight, unless you use AoE attacks like grenades or a guy with a giant snake for a lower body.

I just know Mammoth wrecked him.

tkitna Senior Member

CS has one good feat so naturally he wins.

-K-M- ...........

Originally posted by Stoic
Is Mammoth on CS's level? Namor is most certainly not on Adam's level. You can take that scan for face value if you so choose, but until Namor is seen swatting Sentry away, and taking on a team of Avengers of that level, it's just another hyperbole statement. They are not equals. The guys that Adam beat would flat out destroy Namor.
So how about that Mammoth situation?

He had his full armor on when he fought Mammoth, which restricts his strength by a large margin.

Except as noted in the story he WAS. Yet you will take Utau's comment as face value? Hmmmm....

Ummm he has stalemated Sentry before as mentioned several times.

KingD19 Shai-Gen's Enigmatic Wong

Yet he tanked a hit from Gog with his armor on.

-K-M- ...........

Originally posted by KingD19
Yet he tanked a hit from Gog with his armor on.

I know right? pretty impressive but you wish to just go by his low showing which he was even restricted in regardless.... all the power to ya.

Stoic Avenger

Originally posted by -K-M-
He had his full armor on when he fought Mammoth, which restricts his strength by a large margin.
Except as noted in the story he WAS. Yet you will take Utau's comment as face value? Hmmmm....
Ummm he has stalemated Sentry before as mentioned several times.

Are you saying that Namor stalemated Sentry? The way that I saw it, Namor was being pushed all over the city. Namor would not be able to humble Terrax the way that Bob did, or, take on WW Hulk. Namor had to adjust to the idea that he was secondary to Hercules. This does not place him in the big boys league from my perspective, but at a level below theirs. Kind of like Simon, except a bit weaker.

KingD19 Shai-Gen's Enigmatic Wong

You want to go by only his high showing.

The point I was making is the armor restricts his strength, but shouldn't have any bearing on his durability if he can tank a punch from Gog with no problems, yet turn around and Mammoth beats him down.

Namor fought with Sentry. He didn't stalemate him. Sentry was basically having his way until he left.

Stoic Avenger

Originally posted by KingD19
Yet he tanked a hit from Gog with his armor on.

Inconsistencies never lead to a great outcome.

-K-M- ...........

Originally posted by Stoic
Are you saying that Namor stalemated Sentry? The way that I saw it, Namor was being pushed all over the city. Namor would not be able to humble Terrax the way that Bob did, or, take on WW Hulk. Namor whad to adjust to the idea that he was secondary to Hercules. This does not place him in the big boys league from my perspective, but at a level below theirs. Kind of like Simon, except a bit weaker.

Correct and he did and was none the worse for wear. They went shot for shot and it was Sentry that flew away when Namor was still ready to go (had no damage either)

Apples and oranges. Sentry prior to Siege/Dark Avengers had many many many low showings such as Hercules embarrassing him.

-K-M- ...........

Originally posted by KingD19
You want to go by only his high showing.
The point I was making is the armor restricts his strength, but shouldn't have any bearing on his durability if he can tank a punch from Gog with no problems, yet turn around and Mammoth beats him down.
Namor fought with Sentry. He didn't stalemate him. Sentry was basically having his way until he left.

I don't and never said that. I have been providing context on many issues (and scans). However, it all started claiming one quote and ignoring another and you saying he "cracked the moon" in half with a piece of metal...never happened.

Inconsistencies, as prior to that no one damaged Steel or even hurt him. It was an outlier, not the norm.

Not really, he was taking his shots even flew through buildings and Namor didn't have a scratch and was still ready to go.

KingD19 Shai-Gen's Enigmatic Wong

Marvel still nearly split the moon in half. That's not up for debate. I misinterpreted the scene, but the outcome is the same. Uatu telling him he could have split the moon. He has tons of other feats as well for his limited time on panel and hasn't really had a low showing either. So I'm much more comfortable debating with him at those levels than CS since he has such a glaring low feat with not that many high ones.

And prior to that, Steel didn't even show up much or fight anybody worth mentioning. He knocked over God Gog, took a punch from Gog, got beat up by Mammoth. What all else has he done?

And the same Namor that fought with Sentry, went on to get schooled by Thing underwater. What does that say?

tkitna Senior Member

Originally posted by -K-M-

Ummm he has stalemated Sentry before as mentioned several times.

You keep bringing this up. Do you feel Namor is on par with the Sentry? He stalemated him in the poorly written Avengers/Invaders (if that's where your going with this) and lived to fight another day when they met again (although he never mounted any offensive attack at all). The legit stalemate in the Avengers/Invaders had Namor fighting the Sentry, Ares, and Wonder Man at the same time with none of them trying to hurt or kill Namor (maybe Ares), and then their other encounter had the Sentry being called away before he really hurt Namor. There's your difference.

Sentry killed Attuma in a mere second. Attuma, the guy that's given Namor fits for years. Sentry also destroyed Atlantis by himself. He's obviously on another level and it shouldn't be hard to see that. Not sure why your grasping.

carver9 Senior Member

Originally posted by -K-M-
Correct and he did and was none the worse for wear. They went shot for shot and it was Sentry that flew away when Namor was still ready to go (had no damage either)
Apples and oranges. Sentry prior to Siege/Dark Avengers had many many many low showings such as Hercules embarrassing him.

He admitted to Herc that he was holding back.

Stoic Avenger

Originally posted by -K-M-
Correct and he did and was none the worse for wear. They went shot for shot and it was Sentry that flew away when Namor was still ready to go (had no damage either)
Apples and oranges. Sentry prior to Siege/Dark Avengers had many many many low showings such as Hercules embarrassing him.

Wow. you didn't just go there. Hercules didn't beat Bob in any traditional way. Namor was not his equal, and Bob left because of his orders. It's obvious that he was over matched. No where in the history of comics has Namor been considered a true class 100 in the hand books, and that includes him being soaking wet. Adam on the other hand is well within this elite class. Namor is on the Things level, as he always has been. The Hulk has no level. He was able to take a hit from a creature capable of hitting with the force of over 130 Hercs. This is something that would tear Namor apart. This means nothing to the thread of course, and i really don't want to pursue this.

CS may be able to take Adam based on the scans that were provided, but on the other side, I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't. I didn't know much about CS because i wasn't able to get the JSA comics that he did all of those amazing things. IMO Adam has the better feats in terms of consistency, but this could just mean that CS simply never got the spotlight due to being overshadowed by Big Blue.

-K-M- ...........

Originally posted by KingD19
Marvel still nearly split the moon in half. That's not up for debate. I misinterpreted the scene, but the outcome is the same. Uatu telling him he could have split the moon. He has tons of other feats as well for his limited time on panel and hasn't really had a low showing either. So I'm much more comfortable debating with him at those levels than CS since he has such a glaring low feat with not that many high ones.
And prior to that, Steel didn't even show up much or fight anybody worth mentioning. He knocked over God Gog, took a punch from Gog, got beat up by Mammoth. What all else has he done?
And the same Namor that fought with Sentry, went on to get schooled by Thing underwater. What does that say?

Which is all fine and dandy, but from the same story it showed he was the same level as Thor, Hulk AND NAMOR. That's not up for debate either.

Yep, galan made an entire respect thread for him.

haha love the low showings I see. You do realise Namor has beat Thing more times then that one fight right? Nor was Namor even ko'ed in that right. He also has beat Wonder Man, Iron Man, Hulk and other class 100 threats. Hilarious what your trying to do now.

The Hulk

Fight number One. Namor looks superior but it's more posturing than anything else really. Avengers #3
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Avengers003a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Avengers003b.jpg

-K-M- ...........

Originally posted by tkitna
You keep bringing this up. Do you feel Namor is on par with the Sentry? He stalemated him in the poorly written Avengers/Invaders (if that's where your going with this) and lived to fight another day when they met again (although he never mounted any offensive attack at all). The legit stalemate in the Avengers/Invaders had Namor fighting the Sentry, Ares, and Wonder Man at the same time with none of them trying to hurt or kill Namor (maybe Ares), and then their other encounter had the Sentry being called away before he really hurt Namor. There's your difference.
Sentry killed Attuma in a mere second. Attuma, the guy that's given Namor fits for years. Sentry also destroyed Atlantis by himself. He's obviously on another level and it shouldn't be hard to see that. Not sure why your grasping.

Again he did it, damn I was just about to reference Avengers/Invaders but was waiting for more people to complain about the fight and then say....they fought again and it was a weaker Namor.

Sure and that was a good feat, Attuma also has been steamrolled by Namor too. Especially later in his career as most villians do after their original introduction.

Now do I think he can match Sentry at his upper limits? Nope. Neither do I think Blue could either. Nor did he fight Blue at those levels either.

Stoic Avenger

Originally posted by -K-M-
Which is all fine and dandy, but from the same story it showed he was the same level as Thor, Hulk AND NAMOR. That's not up for debate either.
Yep, galan made an entire respect thread for him.
haha love the low showings I see. You do realise Namor has beat Thing more times then that one fight right? Nor was Namor even ko'ed in that right. He also has beat Wonder Man, Iron Man, Hulk and other class 100 threats. Hilarious what your trying to do now.
[b]The Hulk
Fight number One. Namor looks superior but it's more posturing than anything else really. Avengers #3
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Avengers003a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Avengers003b.jpg
Fight Two. Hulk is under the control of the Puppet Master. Namor KO's him eventually via whirlpool. TTA #100
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100b.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100c.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100d.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100e.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100f.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100g.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100h.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100i.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100j.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100k.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100l.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100m.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100n.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/TalesToAstonish100o.jpg
Round 3. For this fight Hulk has been given a drug that allows him to function underwater like an Atlantean. Namor wins by decisive KO. IH #118
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118b.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118c.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118d.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118e.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118f.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118g.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118h.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118i.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118j.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118k.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Hulk118l.jpg
Round 4. This time it's on land. This one doesn't go to a conclusion, but the two look pretty even. Defenders #52
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Defenders052a.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Defenders052b.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Defenders052c.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Defenders052d.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Defenders052e.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Defenders052f.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Defenders052g.jpg
http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Guest%20apps/Battles/Defenders052h.jpg
*Source: http://herochat.com/forum/index.php?topic=211949.msg3503177#msg3503177 [/B]

That's old shit brother, the Hulk was in an immature body in those days as peter David wrote it up. He is far more powerful these days. Just a few years ago, he tried his little b1tch fit on the Hulk, and the Hulk calmly restrained him. Guys like Gladiator, Thor, Sentry, Hercules, Silver Surfer, Hyperion, and Yes Blue Marvel would beat him down if they were as serious as he gets in his fights.

Namor is in the Things strength class. this does not mean that Ben can fight better than he can. Shit even Skaar can lift more than Namor. He's a little boy (Love Skaar by the way so i had to bring him into this LOLLLLL). 😄