Originally posted by dadudemon
You forgot about the multiple copies and teleportation stuff, didn't you? Yes, you did. 🙂This is your problem. This has never been about how Silver Surfer can win. He can't. It is impossible for him to win. He will never be able to kill an immortal being that can reform himself from nothing. That's literally impossible. This discussion has always been about how hard it would be for Dr. Manhattan to kill Silver Surfer.
Prove that Manhattan reforms himself from nothing. Surfer killed Galactus. Surfer reconstructed Doom. Surfer has control over matter and energy. Surfer kills/KOs Manhattan with the Galactus-buster or just traps him in his board. Surfer wins.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Manhattan isn't a physical being. His body is just an avatar. Even if he allowed his body to be absorbed (even though given that he can perceive Planck time events, he can just teleport away from Surfer's board and phase through the Galactus buster), he can just generate another.Actually he has zero ways to win here. I'll say at best he can stalemate Doc, but he's not beating him.
Wrong. Galactus-buster, board-trap and the better feats of matter manipulation/deconstruction make Radd Osterman's obvious superior. If you think that Manhattan is unbeatable when being compared to other godlike can-do-almost-anything plot device characters like the Silver Surfer, then you're clearly buying into the hype sold by his fanboys. In which case I pity you.
Originally posted by Epicurus
No-Limits-Fallacy.Prove that Manhattan reforms himself from nothing. Surfer killed Galactus. Surfer reconstructed Doom. Surfer has control over matter and energy. Surfer kills/KOs Manhattan with the Galactus-buster or just traps him in his board. Surfer wins.
you cant trap doc though. his physical form is not the core of his existence. that's why he can be completely destroyed, as he was in the quantum field generator, twice, and come back.
as we see the second time, being "destroyed" is really no big deal to doc. perhaps it amused him.
Originally posted by EpicurusYour trying to make constraints to Dr. Manhattans abilities which aren't there and were never shown. That doesn't work. Your going to have a hard time (and by that, I mean the impossible task) of trying to prove that he can be contained, hurt, or stopped in any way. Manhattan wins this.
How can he generate another body when he is trapped inside Surfer's beautiful space angel board? Or are you talking about him having back-up clones from the get-go? In which case Surfer traps them as well along with the original.🙂Wrong. Galactus-buster, board-trap and the better feats of matter manipulation/deconstruction make Radd Osterman's obvious superior. If you think that Manhattan is unbeatable when being compared to other godlike can-do-almost-anything plot device characters like the Silver Surfer, then you're clearly buying into the hype sold by his fanboys. In which case I pity you.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
you cant trap doc though. his physical form is not the core of his existence. that's why he can be completely destroyed, as he was in the quantum field generator, twice, and come back.as we see the second time, being "destroyed" is really no big deal to doc. perhaps it amused him.
None of the tricks they used on him cam close to the Galactus-busting attack or the myriad other tricks Surfer has under his belt. Heck, the Power Cosmic's feats of matter transmutation and manipulation are considerably better than what was shown of Manhattan's powerset.
Surfer outclasses Manhattan in virtually every way here, except for the tachyon weakness which affects Manhattan less severely than it does the Silver Surfer.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Your trying to make constraints to Dr. Manhattans abilities which aren't there and were never shown. That doesn't work. Your going to have a hard time (and by that, I mean the impossible task) of trying to prove that he can be contained, hurt, or stopped in any way. Manhattan wins this.
I have already proven it. Manhattan was never faced with the powers of someone like the Silver Surfer. The Silver Surfer on the other hand defeated a being who gave him all his powers to begin, who was vastly more powerful than the Surfer himself.
Surfer wins.
Originally posted by Epicurus
All of which is pure speculation on your part regarding Manhattan's imaginary ability to generate tachyons.Again, it was never implied even once that Pyramid was using any of the research from the energy breakthrough that Veidt was working on with Manhattan's help. Nope, that was a project of its own; funded and provided for with by Veidt to prevent Jon from prematurely detecting any signs or foul play on Veidt's part.
Lol, the Silver Surfer just that every time he blasts people or objects. What prevents the Surfer from trapping Manhattan in his board? Or killing him with the Galactus-buster?
Surfer has too many ways to win here, while all Manhattan has are made-up scenarios and never before seen applications of his powerset courtesy of his fans.
The Tacheyon research was done by Ardrians company though. And the burst was released when they exploded the reactors. Those city destroy where through his power re created. DM admitted that a Tacheyon burst from nuclear war was blocking his visions although it was his own destructive power that was going to be released that was blocking it.
As far as him trapping him in his board? He trapped a physical missile, trapping a quantum field being is something else entirely is it not? The Galactus buster does not destroy the quantum field because it exists everywhere, the most it would do would KO surfer and make DM reform. Thus DM wins.
Originally posted by Epicurus
Being bfred into something from which nothing returns is called trapping. Which is a loss per forum rules. Manhattan hasn't demonstrated the ability to return after being absorbed by a black hole for example. Or getting trapped in a pocket dimension. Which is more or less what the board-trap would do to him.
again, his physical bodies are not the core of his existence. you cant just override this and assert that if you threw one of those bodies into a black hole that it would also suck in his existence from the quantum field.
Originally posted by EpicurusWhat did movie Galactus do to show that he was so powerful? He didn't reality bend, and he was taken out by someone who should only have a fraction of his power (which says more about how weak and stupid he is than how powerful Surfer is). Galactus in comics would wtf stomp his movie version, both Surfers, and every fighter in this thread at the same time. Don't confuse the characters.
Nope, I am going by onscreen feats. Sorry, but making shit up about Manhattan's feats is the MO of Manhattan-fanboys.I have already proven it. Manhattan was never faced with the powers of someone like the Silver Surfer. The Silver Surfer on the other hand defeated a being who gave him all his powers to begin, who was vastly more powerful than the Surfer himself.
Surfer wins.
You are not going by onscreen feats, you haven't proven anything except that you have no understanding of how near unstoppable Dr. Manhattan is, and Surfer loses just as fast as Supes and Thor in this fight.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
again, his physical bodies are not the core of his existence. you cant just override this and assert that if you threw one of those bodies into a black hole that it would also suck in his existence from the quantum field.
Well, as Manhattan's concept is heavily based in "quantic physics", you can make a case about black holes rendering his core information (consciousness) unusable, because it'll be dispersing far away the speed of light.
Originally posted by Squirtle
Well, as Manhattan's concept is heavily based in "quantic physics", you can make a case about black holes rendering his core information (consciousness) unusable, because it'll be dispersing far away the speed of light.
His consciousness is integrated with any part of the quantum field, which is everywhere. As shown he can exist with or without a body, and his body is just a avatar of what the quantum field produces because it has taken a consciousness and there pretty much does what he or it wants to do.
Everything he did and could do was based of the use of quantum mechanics, Quantum superposition, Quantum tunneling and every other Quantum you could think of. Like his teleporting, that would be a usage and mastery of quantum tunneling effect which is the key to teleportation.
He is shown turning metal into glass, earth into gold, changing and creating elements on a whim. Mastery over pretty much everything. The god label would not have been given to him if he was just a blue hobo with some fancy tricks. Its pretty cool scientifically if you think of it🙂
Originally posted by Epicurus
No-Limits-Fallacy.Prove that Manhattan reforms himself from nothing.
You're just trolling. You're breaking the MVF Golden Rule by ignoring what was seen on screen. Trollolololololololol!
Originally posted by Epicurus
Surfer killed Galactus. Surfer reconstructed Doom. Surfer has control over matter and energy. Surfer kills/KOs Manhattan with the Galactus-buster or just traps him in his board. Surfer wins.
Originally posted by the amazing dadudemon
This is your problem. This has never been about how Silver Surfer can win. He can't. It is impossible for him to win. He will never be able to kill an immortal being that can reform himself from nothing. That's literally impossible. This discussion has always been about how hard it would be for Dr. Manhattan to kill Silver Surfer.
Originally posted by dadudemon
You're just trolling. You're breaking the MVF Golden Rule by ignoring what was seen on screen. Trollolololololololol!
he didn't reform himself from nothing. he does not perform magic and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. he has to be drawing that matter and energy from somewhere.
also, can't you debate a topic without acting like a complete obnoxious f@ggot?
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
His consciousness is integrated with any part of the quantum field, which is everywhere. As shown he can exist with or without a body, and his body is just a avatar of what the quantum field produces because it has taken a consciousness and there pretty much does what he or it wants to do.Everything he did and could do was based of the use of quantum mechanics, Quantum superposition, Quantum tunneling and every other Quantum you could think of. Like his teleporting, that would be a usage and mastery of quantum tunneling effect which is the key to teleportation.
He is shown turning metal into glass, earth into gold, changing and creating elements on a whim. Mastery over pretty much everything. The god label would not have been given to him if he was just a blue hobo with some fancy tricks. Its pretty cool scientifically if you think of it🙂
👆
Originally posted by focus4chumps
he didn't reform himself from nothing. he does not perform magic and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. he has to be drawing that matter and energy from somewhere.also, can't you debate a topic without acting like a complete obnoxious f@ggot?
Reported.
Also, everything you said is wrong. Magic. The burden of proof is on your to prove he didn't reform from nothing. 🙂
Ohh...wait...supernatural spirits n'shit. hahahaha