Originally posted by Nephthys
Kind of gay that you think you can just decide what I can reply to. I happen to think that the TK argument is still relevant.
Spoiler:
Have a happy Christmas and a merry new year?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
[B]Relation to Debate: If Darth Zannah's sorcery is effective against Revan.
Outcome: No, it is not.
Revan's attack doesn't need to beat her, as you are implying, for Revan to win or stalemate. But rather what it needs to do is create a more devastating impact then Zannah's failed sorcery attempt, in which it will obviously do. Bane was capable of unleashing TK even under Zannah's spell...Revan can easily do the same to stop Zannah from further pressing the illusion. This is not even worth mentioning that it would exhaust some of her Force energy. It would actually be better for Zannah *not* to unleash sorcery onto Revan.[/b]
Um, you're aware that there are other sorcerous techniques than just mental assualts right? Like the Force Blast that Aleema used to turn a dude into a charred skeleton or that King Ommin used. Or Sutta Chwituskak, bolts of hatred and Odojinya, a darkside web that severs the targets force connection, both of which were again demonstrated by Ommin. Zannah has access to a wide array of sorcery to use against Revan, seeing as she possesses the knowledge from Freedon Nadds holocron. And Nadd was said to have mastered every darkside technique, and was in general a consummate sorcerer. Even if her mental assault fails, like with Bane she has other options.
Revan's attack hit himself as well as the Emperor, remember. It isn't going to leave Zannah vulnerable to anything.
Bane wasn't capable of freely using TK against Zannah. so neither would Revan. It was only him repelling the mental attack with a blast of power that did that.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
[B]Relation to Debate: If Darth Zannah's Force barrier is effective against Revan.
Outcome: No, it is not.
It states that her Force barrier will not protect her from lightning, and that she rather has to:
A. Use her lightsaber (she doesn't have in this battle)
B. Dodge it through her speed
The bolded part is pivotal for my argument, and something you *tried* to argue on later in the thread. Though she can avoid some of Revan's lightning, ultimately she cannot avoid continuing storms of FLS attacks. Like you said Revan will eventually fall from Zannah's sorcery...it is rather that Zannah would eventually fall from Revan's lightning. Where Revan's lightning might not be as good as Bane's...it is still capable of killing rancors, which I find much more impressive then humans. In terms of Force Barriers and how they work, you are wrong. Worror used a "Protection bubble" to defend against Bane's lightning, not a Force barrier. Zannah has never displayed even knowledge on this ability before.[/b]
- Zannah has already demonstrated the ability to block lightning and flame with a Force bubble. Just because she cannot do the same against Bane's extremely devastating usage of lightning does not mean that she couldn't against Revan's more..... pedestrian assault.
- The thread starter did not say that they don't have their lightsabers. 😬
- "Protection Bubble" and Force Bubble are the same thing. Again, Zannah has access to Nadd's holocron, which undoubtedly has knowledge of Force Bubble in it, a technique Zannah already instinctively knows how to use anyway.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Her only other ability is TK. 😬
The darkside is a path to many abilities some would consider.... unnatural.
She has access to sorcery, which has a number of attacks. Eventually I feel one of the techniques would bring him down, coupled with TK if necessary.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
[b]Relation to Debate: If Darth Zannah's Force barrier is effective against Revan.
Outcome: No, it is not.
Your logic is making no sense here, unless you are implying Darth Bane is highly unintelligent. If Bane knew he was there, he would have been prepared. But rather he was taken completely off-guard, which is stated, and throws up a desperate Force barrier. Zannah, being a master at sorcery, can easily hide her presence in the Force and in physical appearance. She does this in the second Bane novel. If you are suggesting otherwise points to her being weaker then I originally anticipated. The fact Vitiate didn't even put up a Force shield points to evidence Revan's TK attacks are incredibly quick and direct.[/b]
She was evidently not able to completely hide her presence from him. But just as evidently he wasn't able to track her movements. A good deal of time spent charging up her power near Bane would obviously have made her presence known to him though.
Anyway, this is largely irrelevant. Zannah didn't hide and charge up the attack. If she had, she would have had enough time to notice that Bane didn't have his lightsaber, which she was visibly unsure of.
Revan didn't use a TK attack and it obviously wasn't direct moron, he unleashed the raw Force in an explosion between them. And its not that it was fast, just that Vitiates attention was on trying to mindrape him. So in other words its utterly incomparable to Zannah tearing through Bane's amplified Force Barrier.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
[b]Relation to Debate: Nothing anymore.
Outcome: Do not reply.
Children acting on instinct draw on their greatest Force reserves.
Normally, Force Masters never reach their greatest Force reserves, like Skywalker.[/b]
It's never stated that they're drawing on their "greatest" force reserves, just that they're drawing on their potential. To what degree is unknown. Theres no way that Zannah's greatest force reserves only equate to snapping some necks and blowing up a hand.
I mean, if this were true Zannah could have destroyed Bane instead of her cousins hand, which is absurd.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
[b]Relation to Debate: Nothing anymore.
Outcome: Do not reply.
You right there state that it would have taken time for the energy to settle. The energy would have been unleashed 10 years prior, and currently still in the air currents and in particular: the chamber where the bomb exploded from. The air around them would be effected, and it would be automatically be flowing through Zannah to strengthen her, just as it would weaken Jedi Knights who draw off the light side.[/B]
I said that it would take time for the energy to corrupt the Force in the area around the bomb. Not nearly enough time had occurred for that to have happened.
Interesting we got 7 pages on this.
Even more interesting that the debate is actually winding downwards.
I'll reply soon/eventually.
- The thread starter did not say that they don't have their lightsabers. erm
Lasting 300 years against Vitiate's mind domination is a testament enough.
However, I feel he was...misleading, and rather annoying.
You don't need a defense against illusions like he is implying.
Example #1: Cade Skywalker in Legacy comics.
Example #2: Nomi Sunrider in Tales of the Jedi comics.
Example #3: Yoda in Season 6 of the Clone Wars.
None of these characters have confirmed defenses...and to my knowledge, Bane's is a Force Scream. 😬
A powerful will, and Revan's will is ****ing immense, will be able to cancel out the illusions. That is only logical.
"Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in it's purest form. There was brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send Revan staggering. The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan's mind, was sent flying backward."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan
It is rather similar...just that Revan's attack is much more powerful.