Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't mind people thinking Superman is stronger (I do, after all), but to act like Thor isn't even in his weight class, is lowballing, imo.and anyone acting like Mjolnir isn't a factor... You need help.
Well, some may act like speed is not a factor, those ones also need help.
It is PROBABLY easier to find evidence of Thor having trouble with speed than not, IMO.
Originally posted by DarkRaiden
Thor wins the first 6.5-7/10wins the second 10/10. Supes ai't taking more than a few hits from Mjolnir, if that.
I.....I seriously hope you're joking.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Don't use masterson as an example of thors abilities. Thor beat qs in that exchange by using his abilities and was on him before he could respond. All other showings u mentioned were low showings
Captain America compared Masterson Thor to Thor in speed the issue prior to Spidey blitzing him. Seems like it's a valid example, but it's not even imporant.
Thor slammed the ground with Mjolnir knocking Pietro off balance. That tactic wouldn't work against a speed-blitzing Superman even ignoring that this is a slugfest, so Thor can't do that. If Thor couldn't tag Quicksilver, who is slower and can't hurt Thor like Superman can, then how is that fight relevant when Thor can't use the only thing that allowed him to beat Quicksilver if we pretend it would be useful against Superman?
And they're low showings? Prove it. The Quicksilver example is obviously irrelevant for your case considering what actually happens and just supports my point. What is there for you to argue Gladiator or Mongoose being too fast for him(effectively too fast with alt Gladiator's case) to really deal with well? I could maybe buy Wolverine, but that's not even assured.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't mind people thinking Superman is stronger (I do, after all), but to act like Thor isn't even in his weight class, is lowballing, imo.and anyone acting like Mjolnir isn't a factor... You need help.
In regards to conventional striking, it doesn't seem to be a major factor in the Thor/Hercules fights I've seen. Charged strikes? That's a different argument.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Well, speed matters less than slugfest, doesn't it?Or is Superman allowed to move at high speeds?
Fight one is a standard slugfest, no Mjolnir for Thor. Fight two Thor gets Mjolnir to hit with, but Superman can punch at super speed.
Originally posted by carver9
Honestly...I think Superman pulls a healthy majority in scenario 1. Scenery 2 is debatable. Superman super speed punches doesn't seem as effective as his non super speed punches. Don't think that matters though. Scenario 2 is debatable both ways...don't see either stomping the other.
I agree with Carver here, super speed punches arent an auto win. They also dont seem to be as effective but i digress.
i still say clark for the maj in one and thor for the maj in two
Originally posted by carver9
Honestly...I think Superman pulls a healthy majority in scenario 1. Scenery 2 is debatable. Superman super speed punches doesn't seem as effective as his non super speed punches. Don't think that matters though. Scenario 2 is debatable both ways...don't see either stomping the other.
Speed blitzing has been pretty effective against Equus, Lobo, Cyborg-Superman and others when he uses it. Even if you could argue they're not as powerful, he'll be throwing a whole lot more, producing accumulative damage. See the second Mongoose fight for how that worked against Thor, unless there's a larger number of better examples than I cited.
Originally posted by Warlord
is magic weakness a factor?
Not really, as it rarely if ever is a real factor in regards to hand-to-hand against Wonder Woman, Etrigan, Captain Marvel, Black Adam and others under normal circumstances.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I agree with Carver here, super speed punches arent an auto win. They also dont seem to be as effective but i digress.i still say clark for the maj in one and thor for the maj in two
So what examples do you have to argue that the Thor showings against speed are low showings?
Originally posted by Delta1938
Speed blitzing has been pretty effective against Equus, Lobo, Cyborg-Superman and others when he uses it. Even if you could argue they're not as powerful, he'll be throwing a whole lot more, producing accumulative damage. See the second Mongoose fight for how that worked against Thor, unless there's a larger number of better examples than I cited.Not really, as it rarely if ever is a real factor in regards to hand-to-hand against Wonder Woman, Etrigan, Captain Marvel, Black Adam and others under normal circumstances.
So what examples do you have to argue that the Thor showings against speed are low showings?
Look you created this thread so you tell me. From what you're saying superman takes a healthy majority in both so why create a spite match. I already stated that punch for punch in round one Clark would win because he is stronger and has greater striking power. Similar to a hulk vs Thor h2h match would go. HOWEVER in round two mjolnir tips the scale due to it's greater striking power IMO. I don't know what else to say.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Look you created this thread so you tell me. From what you're saying superman takes a healthy majority in both so why create a spite match. I already stated that punch for punch in round one Clark would win because he is stronger and has greater striking power. Similar to a hulk vs Thor h2h match would go. HOWEVER in round two mjolnir tips the scale due to it's greater striking power IMO. I don't know what else to say.
Spite would mean it's my intention to spite Thor. I thought maybe the Thor fans could provide examples of standard Mjolnir shots being significantly more powerful than punches, and if they could provide any real examples that Thor could handle a Superman speed-blitz. You said he can react, but haven't provided any examples. And when I cited examples for Thor handling speed poorly, you simply said they're low showings. If they are, I'd think you would have equal or greater number of showings for Thor doing much, much better against speed. So, I asked.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Spite would mean it's my intention to spite Thor. I thought maybe the Thor fans could provide examples of standard Mjolnir shots being significantly more powerful than punches, and if they could provide any real examples that Thor could handle a Superman speed-blitz. You said he can react, but haven't provided any examples. And when I cited examples for Thor handling speed poorly, you simply said they're low showings. If they are, I'd think you would have equal or greater number of showings for Thor doing much, much better against speed. So, I asked.
But you created the thread and you are going against everyones post about Thor. So why create a thread if you don't think Thor stands a chance. How many wins would you give Thor in scenario 1? What about 2?
Originally posted by abhilegend
^ How does he wins 3/10 in the first fight to begin with? I have trouble recalling any Thor level opponent beating Superman in a slugfest in his post-crisis history.And he isn't beating Superman in second let alone beating 7/10.
Overrate it actually.
Personally I wouldn't give Thor 7/10 over Wonderman on a slugfest, let alone New Earth Kal, but people aren't all equally aquainted to the story of these characters.
Originally posted by carver9
But you created the thread and you are going against everyones post about Thor. So why create a thread if you don't think Thor stands a chance. How many wins would you give Thor in scenario 1? What about 2?
Like I told SIA, I was wanting to see evidence. It's not impossible for me to be surprised and they build a case that Thor can keep up enough. But her arguments boil down to arguing the Quicksilver example like it actually matters(Thor using a tactic that is neither effective or allowed in this scenario, against someone slower and can't hit as hard as Superman) and saying the examples of Thor being blitzed I gave are low showings, without giving counter examples or any reason for why she claimed it. Wanting to see if people bring evidence to prove me wrong doesn't mean it's an intended spite thread. Plus, there's also, ya know, the fact that debating is fun.
As for Thor winning percentage, I guess I'd give him 1, maybe 2/10 in fight one. Superman has quite the strength and durability advantage, impressive pain tolerance in his own right even if others can argue Thor's is better, at worst equal willpower to win if not greater, and a decent healing factor. Scenario 2? Maybe 1/10, unless Thor fans can provide sufficient evidence that Thor can decently keep-up. Ya know, part of why I made this. I can see Thor getting lucky and getting a few charged Mjolnir strikes in sometimes.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Like I told SIA, I was wanting to see evidence. It's not impossible for me to be surprised and they build a case that Thor can keep up enough. But her arguments boil down to arguing the Quicksilver example like it actually matters(Thor using a tactic that is neither effective or allowed in this scenario, against someone slower and can't hit as hard as Superman) and saying the examples of Thor being blitzed I gave are low showings, without giving counter examples or any reason for why she claimed it. Wanting to see if people bring evidence to prove me wrong doesn't mean it's an intended spite thread. Plus, there's also, ya know, the fact that debating is fun.As for Thor winning percentage, I guess I'd give him 1, maybe 2/10 in fight one. Superman has quite the strength and durability advantage, impressive pain tolerance in his own right even if others can argue Thor's is better, at worst equal willpower to win if not greater, and a decent healing factor. Scenario 2? Maybe 1/10, unless Thor fans can provide sufficient evidence that Thor can decently keep-up. Ya know, part of why I made this. I can see Thor getting lucky and getting a few charged Mjolnir strikes in sometimes.
Like i said you created a thread to bait. Anyway this has been done before and im not inclined to post a thousand word essay on thors feats. You brought up qs scan which had no relevance to this match as a means to put down Thor. Then when i explained that Thor countered his speed then grabbed him before he could recover you said it's not relevant because he couldn't do this to superman. Anyway what is Clark gonna do if Thor spins mjolnir around at ftl speed while he's trying to blitz? Flight isn't available only super fast punches. Are u suggesting hes gonna punch thru that?