Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The "stronger then most" was a reference to his Force power as a whole, not just limited to the Jedi Order.
People like The Son, The Daughter, The Father, Abeloth, and some of those entities from TOR are above Yoda.
Sith Emperor > Yoda.
Darth Nox (augmented with power of ghosts) and HoT are also possibly stronger then Yoda.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
How does that retcon anything? It doesn't contradict anything.I find it funny that you separate the continuities sometimes, yet pool them together other times when it suits your purposes.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Lucas>Bioware bro
Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia is a joint work of Lucas(Arts) and BioWare.
BioWare itself cannot promote characters in such a way.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The forum rules you can find here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t441813.html , state that Lucas' word is law.
I agree.Sith Emperor > Yoda.
Lucas approved BioWare's promotions in the first place. Don't you get it?
Disney have taken over Lucas.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well, I was referring to the Terror From Beyond, Soa, and others of the like. Not really Vitiate. 😛
I am not sure if Terror of Beyond is Force-user though.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yes, but it has been confirmed he has read virtually no EU material. Merely approving something for money does not equivalent to agreeing.
BioWare doesn't gets to call the shots in its sourcebooks without approval from higher authority.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The forum rules are still the same, though.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Legends continuity contradicts this.
Again, Legends continuity cannot contradict Canon continuity. Disney has already established Canon continuity as the "main" universe, where as Legends continuity is a separate universe that, for all tense and purposes, doesn't have any bearing on them.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Mr. Lucas promoted The Ones as most powerful Force-users of the mythos in 2011. BioWare contradicted this by promoting Sith Emperor as the most powerful Force-user of the mythos in 2012. Now, the ball is in the court of Disney. It refrained from re-promoting The Ones as most powerful Force-users ever, it just asserted that The Ones are superior to any known mortal.
Bioware cannot contradict Lucas. As far as Vitiate being the most powerful, the line from the Encyclopedia doesn't cover the eras past TOR. If you're referring to another source, please let me know. You're acting like Bioware is on a similar level to Disney, as far as dictating the Canon universe, but only Disney and Lucas (to a lesser extant, now) have that authority.
Emperor Vitiate is stronger then all of these Force-users.
Genius, that sourcebook is joint work of Lucas and BioWare. Do you even have the book? I have it.BioWare doesn't gets to call the shots in its sourcebooks.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Again, Legends continuity cannot contradict Canon continuity. Disney has already established Canon continuity as the "main" universe, where as Legends continuity is a separate universe that, for all tense and purposes, doesn't have any bearing on them.
I understand that these two are separate continuities but this situation can change in the future. Legends can be re-canonized through newer sourcebooks. In addition, Legends continuity covers Canon continuity.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Bioware cannot contradict Lucas. As far as Vitiate being the most powerful, the line from the Encyclopedia doesn't cover the eras past TOR. If you're referring to another source, please let me know. You're acting like Bioware is on a similar level to Disney, as far as dictating the Canon universe, but only Disney and Lucas (to a lesser extant, now) have that authority.
BioWare could not get Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia on its own, it is joint works of Lucas and BioWare.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Legends continuity cannot contradict Canon continuity in matter of events. It have contradicted canon continuity in matter of promotion of characters.I understand that these two are separate continuities but this situation can change in the future. Legends can be re-canonized through newer sourcebooks. In addition, Legends continuity covers Canon continuity.
I know about timeline factor but The Ones are part of this timeline factor. How conveniently you forgot this.
BioWare could not get Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia on its own, it is joint works of Lucas and BioWare.
1) Whether or not any material in the Legends continuity gets re-canonized in the future is irrelevant. The fact remains that Canon continuity still out ranks Legends in the eyes of Disney.
2) Forgot what? That The Ones were originally discovered before TOR? I never forgot, but you keep overlooking the fact that they were described as the most powerful Force users in an era that followed their discovery and Vitiate's war. The timing to that statement encompasses Vitiate into it.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I might have to disagree with you there. 😉 Isn't there an entity who can eat the galaxy or something?
The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)
Both Soa and TOB entity co-existed with Sith Emperor. They are covered.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why are you insulting me? Out of all the members in this thread, I have took the least hostile approach. Merely putting Lucas' *company* name does not equivalent to the big guy himself. BioWare merely needs to ask permission from LucasArts for a creation of a sourcebook, and then they make one. Lucas honestly takes no part in this procedure, the other people do it. Now, he might be asked once if they are allowed, though he does not read through the entire book itself or anything like you suggest. I sincerely doubt he even knows who Darth Revan is, to be completely honest.
This book would not have been possible without the incredible work, creativity, and input of many talented people. The authors would like to thank Alexander Freed, Daniel Erickson, John Posavatz, James Ohien, Rich Vogel, Ray Muzyka, and Greg Zeschuk of BioWare; the writers of Star Wars: The Old Republic; the entire team at BioWare Austin; Electronic Arts; Lucasfilm and LucasArts; and Helen Murray and her editorial and design teams at Dorling Kindersley for their guidance, support and vision.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
1) Whether or not any material in the Legends continuity gets re-canonized in the future is irrelevant. The fact remains that Canon continuity still out ranks Legends in the eyes of Disney.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
2) Forgot what? That The Ones were originally discovered before TOR? I never forgot, but you keep overlooking the fact that they were described as the most powerful Force users in an era that followed their discovery and Vitiate's war. The timing to that statement encompasses Vitiate into it.
Evaluations in older sourcebooks can only take in to consideration older developments, not latest developments.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Disney did not contradict promotion of Sith Emperor.Timing argument never works.
Evaluations in older sourcebooks can only take in to consideration older developments, not latest developments.
1) By putting the statement about the Ones in the Databank, it overwrites the statement made about Vitiate, since the Databank is backed by Disney, and SWTOR is Legends continuity.
2) It's just about timing. The entire book is written in present tense, as if the events are happening right then. You keep looking at it as an excellent encyclopedic source instead of what it really is: a source book about the events of the game and those that proceeded it.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
1) By putting the statement about the Ones in the Databank, it overwrites the statement made about Vitiate, since the Databank is backed by Disney, and SWTOR is Legends continuity.
In the mysterious realm of Mortis there exists a trio of beings able to wield the Force in ways no known mortals of the galaxy can. (Official Databank)
Sith Emperor doesn't fits in this description.
The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
2) It's just about timing. The entire book is written in present tense, as if the events are happening right then. You keep looking at it as an excellent encyclopedic source instead of what it really is: a source book about the events of the game and those that proceeded it.
The referred encyclopedia does not properly covers some additional stuff either, doesn't means that it excludes all that stuff from evaluation.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is the statement:In the mysterious realm of Mortis there exists a trio of beings able to wield the Force in ways no known mortals of the galaxy can. (Official Databank)
Sith Emperor doesn't fits in this description.
The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)
I understand but The Ones are known to the galaxy at this point. One sourcebook doesn't covers everything, you have to connect the dots.
The referred encyclopedia does not properly covers some additional stuff either, doesn't means that it excludes all that stuff from evaluation.
1) As far as the Ones go, here is a quote from TCW:
"My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other. Therefore, it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites."
Now, seeing as how they were alive when Vitiate was alive, and would likely have sensed his presence and power in the Force, the implication is that they're including Vitiate in that statement (connecting the dots, like you said).
2) Also, regarding Xendrek's discovery of them, as explained in The Essential Guide to Warfare:
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Evaluations in older sourcebooks can only take in to consideration older developments, not latest developments.
So, looking to that source to backup your contradiction to the statement in the Databank doesn't work, by your own words.
I also think you're misunderstanding my point about the TOR Encyclopedia. The main point I'm trying to make is that the book doesn't make Vitiate the most powerful ever, since it doesn't go beyond the TOR era.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
1) As far as the Ones go, here is a quote from TCW:"My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other. Therefore, it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites."
Now, seeing as how they were alive when Vitiate was alive, and would likely have sensed his presence and power in the Force, the implication is that they're including Vitiate in that statement (connecting the dots, like you said).
But I am not sure if The Father can sense developments in other parts of the galaxy, he set a tracking beacon as a means to have contact with realm outside Mortis.
Also, character statements are fallible; characters tend to manipulate and all that stuff. The Father attempted to manipulate Anakin Skywalker to take his place and issued a scary statement with this intent.
Sith Emperor also informed the Jedi Strike Team that he is not afraid of anything. He is right in the sense that he was not afraid of the Jedi, but in reality, he feared his own demise.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
2) Also, regarding Xendrek's discovery of them, as explained in The Essential Guide to Warfare:
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
So, looking to that source to backup your contradiction to the statement in the Databank doesn't work, by your own words.
I personally don't care about this matter. Sith Emperor could be equal to The Ones in reality, I am good with this.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
But I am not sure if The Father can sense developments in other parts of the galaxy, he set a tracking beacon as a means to have contact with realm outside Mortis.
These are the lengths they went to to stop Abeloth numerous times to stop her from destroying the Orders modeled after them. Yet apparently Vitiate is beneath their notice.
The message is clear here: to the Ones, Anakin, Abeloth, and eachother are worthy of their notice.
When you add in the quote about them being "more powerful in the force than any the Jedi have seen before" makes sense.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Ones were capable of perceiving, instructing, giving the force to, and stripping the force away from an entire race from halfway across the Galaxy.These are the lengths they went to to stop Abeloth numerous times to stop her from destroying the Orders modeled after them. Yet apparently Vitiate is entirely beneath their notice.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well, this is an interesting observation.But I am not sure if The Father can sense developments in other parts of the galaxy, he set a tracking beacon as a means to have contact with realm outside Mortis.
Also, character statements are fallible; characters tend to manipulate and all that stuff. The Father attempted to manipulate Anakin Skywalker to take his place and issued a scary statement with this intent.
Sith Emperor also informed the Jedi Strike Team that he is not afraid of anything. He is right in the sense that he was not afraid of the Jedi, but in reality, he feared his own demise.
Where is the statement?
Darth Plagueis actually revealed that Jedi and Sith were aware of existence of The Ones throughout history. Xendor may have been responsible because he visited them and revealed about them to the galaxy at large.
I personally don't care about this matter. Sith Emperor could be equal to The Ones in reality, I am good with this.
1) DMB beat me to it.
2) Character statements can be fallible, but considering the showings of the Ones, during the Moris arc, and the fact that his quote is almost verbatum to the Databank entry, I'm inclined to believe the Father on this matter.
3) Sadly, I no longer have the book (lost in my move), and While I've found multiple sources that reference the statement (Wookieepedia, GameFaqs, Eucantina), I couldn't find the statement itself.
4) The Father's statement speaks to the Ones being more powerful than anyone, so I doubt Vitiate is their equal.