Revan's Raw Power Comparison

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You do know that Legends and Canon are now two separate continuities right?

So many jokes about LeGenD and Canon... Oh my lord. My heads literally going to explode.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
1) DMB beat me to it.

2) Character statements can be fallible, but considering the showings of the Ones, during the Moris arc, and the fact that his quote is almost verbatum to the Databank entry, I'm inclined to believe the Father on this matter.

3) Sadly, I no longer have the book (lost in my move), and While I've found multiple sources that reference the statement (Wookieepedia, GameFaqs, Eucantina), I couldn't find the statement itself.

4) The Father's statement speaks to the Ones being more powerful than anyone, so I doubt Vitiate is their equal.

3) What quote are you looking for? I have the Book, and Beni made a great reference thread for us to use.

4) Vitiate's simply Not their equal, you're right. (He's also not more powerful than Yoda, but that's a debate for another day)

Originally posted by Selenial
4) Vitiate's simply Not their equal, you're right. (He's also not more powerful than Yoda, but that's a debate for another day)

Also, how exactly is Yoda on par with or stronger then Sith Emperor? Don't quote me outdated sources to assert how grand Sidious was/is. Present a valid argument.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Don't worry, I will settle this debate very soon.

Also, how exactly is Yoda on par with or stronger then Sith Emperor? Don't quote me [B]outdated sources to assert how grand Sidious was/is. Present a valid argument. [/B]

You really are trolling us aren't you... Like you seriously have to be either mentally retarded or trolling us. I get you're not English, and it obviously doesn't come easy to you (Judging by your use of the language) so that's all well and good, but we've explained how your own quotes aren't saying what you think, and you still only come out with incredibly annoying attempts at claiming sources as out dated.

But fine by me, I'll put you down, for old times sake.

In response to Legend's post [to big to quote]

1. Yoda's canonical position is this:

Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chamber, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two engaged in a spectacular duel—a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force’s light and dark sides.

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith

And neither of this sources are outdated, the Encyclopedia remains the "definitive reference guide to a space fantasy phenomenon" and has yet to be replaced. On top of that Del Rey has confirmed that the novelizations remain canon in light of the new continuity:

The novelizations of the seven films--including The Clone Wars--are canon.

...

To clarify, movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie.

So yes, Yoda remains canonically superior to the Hero of Tython and the entire Jedi Strike Team. The databank is retconning nothing, the statement doesn't even conflict with these statements. The same applies to the statement regarding Sidious.

Is Yoda strongest than most? Yes he was the strongest mortal practitioner of the light side in galactic history. Is he the strongest of them all? No he is surpassed by the Father, the Son, the Daugher and possibly Sidious. And Luke Skywalker in future canon may also end up surpassing him.

So yeah, let's not even go there.

2. Proof? The Emperor is currently AWOL and *looks up at the sky* yup still stormy. Heck the notion that the Sith Emperor caused the storms is not even confirmed as fact, its rumor and hearsay. You can't seriously believe that the Sith Emperor has being playing weatherman for the past millenia.

Anyway what you need to understand is the difference between Alter Enviroment and Force Lightning, they are not at all the same. The creation of lightning storms does not involve shooting lightning across the entire atmosphere, its about manipulating weather currents and infusing it with the dark side to create natural lightning.

Every flash in Dromund Kaas sky is not the Sith Emperor shooting lightning from his fingers. Obviously. And considering Plagueis' skill with Alter Enviroment combined with Sidious' ability to infuse entire planets with the dark side and his ability to affect weather with his mere presence, Sidious is most certainly capable of this, and likely more.

3. I'm being sarcastic, because you're exaggerating.

4. Yes the Sith Emperor did easily subdue the Jedi Strike Team, he didn't even have to engage them. But my point is that Sidious can subdue such individuals with even greater ease whereas the Sith Emperor requires much more effort to pull of comparable feats. So no, his proficiency with lightning is not unrivaled. You're barely managing to prove his lightning is equal. Subduing powerful Force Users when in a weakened state with a flash of lightning is unrivaled.

5. I'm not talking about Nyriss' "signature lightning" I'm talking about her casual bursts. As for the rest of your point, I've already addressed this and you failed to respond I can only assume 1. you missed it or 2. you ignored it because you were unable to respond.

So, allow me to quote myself:

Yet the barrier she threw up would have counted for nothing, Nyriss is described as putting all her energy into her final attack and this would have left her with nothing left to defend herself with - making her barriers easy to penetrate.

Now while this was not stated in the novel, it is the only logical conclusion to reach. If she had had her full barriers up, she would not have been incinerated, she would not have even been harmed. Because ultimately it would have been the equivalent of being attacked by a being of equal power. And an offense equal in power to a defense = stalemate.

This is reinforced by a similar incident in which Sidious had his Force Lightning, which he put all his energy into, redirected by Galen Marek, yet he emerged unscathed, if we ascribe to your logic he would have died like Marek.

6. Yes she was. She possessed the same potential as Luke Skywalker after all and like him only required a limited amount of training to become quite powerful. Powerful enough to use abilities such as battle meditation and sever Force both of which she used to help Luke defeat Darth Sidious and his Force Storm - the most powerful expression of the dark side on record. She was also able to shield her son from Sidious' spirit.

Scoffing at that only invites disaster. And arguing that every member of the Jedi Strike Team is superior to her is ridiculous. Keep in mind that if Sidious had unleashed a Force Storm or a Force Blast like the Sith Emperor did, or was at full strength, Leia and her friends would have been blasted back into the TOR era.

But do we care? No. We are comparing the amount of energy it takes of Sidious and the Sith Emperor to subdue not kill Force Users.

7. Your lack of knowledge on Vaapad is astounding. The power creates a superconducting loop that allows the user to channel the energy of the attacker into their own assault, allowing them to deflect vast amounts of energy beyond that of their normal capabilities. This means Windu can challenge and defeat dark siders that are superior to him.

During his battle with Sidious, Windu took this to a whole other level and yet despite that Sidious' powers proved to vast to overcome. Noting that Windu's abilities put him on level with Tol Braga, the Hero of Tython and even Revan.

FYI: Windu created this power to combat his inner darkness, this "weakness" therefore only made his application more powerful. So enough with that nonsense.

Yoda makes up for it in power.

Galen Marek experienced a feat of Oneness, which considerably increases one's ability to wield the Force to levels that at least in their current state they can not usually attain. It was only through such a state that Marek was able to stand against the Emperor and despite that he failed to kill him and Sidious suffered no injuries. Yoda did much better considering he did not need Oneness and was able to rebound the energy without serious injury to himself.

Though I really fail to see your point on that one. Marek surpasses Revan in power, as well as Windu.

8. Check this. Jedi not disarmed, lightsaber not destroyed. Now check this. Jedi disarmed, lightsaber probably destroyed. Look familar? That's because those are the links I just posted, which you rather laughable ignored. The Sith Emperor was only able to destroy/disarm the Hero of Tython's and Tol Braga's lightsabers via prolonged exposure to a Force Storm and multiple bursts of lightning, whereas Sidious had no need for a Force Storm and merely required one burst to disarm a more powerful Force user. Are you getting this? Lets just be clear. Blast of the Sith Emperor's lightning, fails to disarm the Hero of Tython, fails to disarm Tol Braga. Blast of Sidious' lightning, succeeds in disarming Yoda.

Sith Emperor's advantages:[list][*]Up against lesser Force Users.
[*]Said Force Users forced to expend energy deflecting Force Storm.
[*]Able to fire off multiple bursts.
[/list] Still fails.

8. I fail to see how, elaborate please. A young apprentice level Darth Thanaton hardly comes close to the venerable powers of Master Yoda, or the Windu's mastery over Vaapad. The fact that the Sith Emperor failed to achieve this effect against Revan, the Hero of Tython and Tol Braga indicates he is incapable.

And I'm talking about in regards to Revan the Sith Emperor's initial bursts which he succeeded in blocking with a lightsaber.

And again we are comparing the effects that blasts of Sidious and the Sith Emperor's lighting has on Force Users, not all out attacks.

9. Which have yet to surface, and should have surface by now. The creative liberties are in BioWare's hands, not yours.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am aware. Most of these sources predate introduction of Emperor Vitiate to the mythos.

Emperor Vitiate have been described as the embodiment of the dark side itself, almost godlike avatar of the dark side, all-powerful, and most powerful Force-user ever. This is hype at its finest.

Don't worry, I will accept you concession soon.

So has Sidious, did you even bother to read it all?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Mr. Lucas promoted The Ones as most powerful Force-users of the mythos in 2011. BioWare contradicted this by promoting Sith Emperor as the most powerful Force-user of the mythos in 2012. Now, the ball is in the court of Disney. It refrained from re-promoting The Ones as most powerful Force-users ever, it just asserted that The Ones are superior to any known mortal.

Claims made that the Sith Emperor is immortal are hyberbolic, immortal is infinite. The Sith Emperor was long-lived but the fact that he suffered the effects of corruption is evidence that his life was finite and he is therefore not immortal.

The One's on the other hand, had the potential to live forever.

Seriously you just need to accept that the Sith Emperor is not better than everyone. Obsessing over a single character is unhealthy.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Never in any sources have a read have I come across a situation in which a bolt of lightining is not continually connected to the wielder's hands.

Its the same thing, Vitiate released a three-pronged "stream" of lightning at Revan as did Yoda, attempting to make a disparity between the two is simply nitpicking. I really doubt it the stream had had an additional prong or two would it have knocked Revan's lightsaber from his grasp.

And no, as far as we can tell the whole thing is one-handed, we only see him intensify the stream with a second hand after Yoda has been disarmed and uses tutanimis.

Indeed the fact that Yoda initially catches the blast with but one-hand and later two indicates that this was the case.

Force User's can react in split-seconds, he is that fast.

But if it didn't happen in the movie its not canon, I couldn't really care less the what the "rules" of canon are here, fans don't make the rules. The script as far as I'm aware bears no canonical weight.

Yes and Revan had just enduring a powerful mental assault from the Emperor and unleashed a massive amount of energy through oneness.

And yes while that is true, this is as I said negated by Yoda's Force superiority and the fact that Sidious was not sitting on a DS nexus.

Lol Sidious.

And do that if you will, but I'm pretty sure the book itself describes as thrumming with the dark side, and the Sith Emperor would have most certainly designed his Citadel to focus DS energies.

I have. It's called Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan. 😉

Wrong wrong wrong. "The Emperor unleashed three more bolts in quick succession. Revan batted the first aside with his lightsaber, ducked the second, then deflected the third back in the direction of its source." How the ferk is that 3-pronged lightning? He unleashes 3 seperate attacks in rapid succession. How can you respond to the same attack 3 times? It's nonsensical that Revan would deal with each prong of lightning individually one after each other if they were part of the same stream of lightning. You are making absolutely no sense and displaying no understanding of the source material. I say good day sir! :<

Wrong again: Here we can see Yoda's lightsaber still in his hand and Sidious attacking with both hands.

No one is that fast.

The rules of canon her are based upon the official rules of canon. A good place to familiarise yourself with these is the Wookieepedia page on canon which states: "G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon."

Theres no indication that either took much out of Revan. Vitiate himself displayed no weariness from attempting that mental assault and it was so short I doubt either had to use much energy in the exchange. And the explosion Revan caused isn't stated to utilise too much power. Yoda's efforts would tire him out a lot more, since he uses an extremely energy-intensive fighting style and is old as balls. Revan undoubtedly has superior stamina than Yoda does, motions to Star Forge battle. In either case, I'm referring to physical tiredness here, which is what would determine whether Yoda could keep his hand on his lightsaber. Yoda was obviously more physically tired from all his flipping around and jumping to avoid platforms.

Yoda is no necessarily superior in all aspects of the Force than Revan. And I am totally unconvinced Vitiate was amped by a nexus.

Well Vitiate's lightning is superior to Sidious'. Sidious focuses on other aspects like lightsaber combat while Vitiate has had infinitely more time to hone his mastery of Force powers.

If theres any proof Kaas is a nexus no one has ever provided it, nor proof that Vitiate was drawing on it. And if Vitiate did that then he wouldn't have needed to specifically create a nexus in the Dark Temple, would he?

Beni WHAT ARE YOU DOING.

I have a Kaggath to call and you're on here instead of replying to my PM? >.>

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Don't worry, I will settle this debate very soon.

Also, how exactly is Yoda on par with or stronger then Sith Emperor? Don't quote me [B]outdated sources to assert how grand Sidious was/is. Present a valid argument. [/B]

Darth Sidious surpasses the Sith Emperor.

An argument you are unlikely accept, thanks to your bizarre outlook on the Star Wars universe. But then you can always compare their feats and it becomes quite evident that Yoda is superior.

His is also canonically superior to the HoT and putting him on a lower level that Darth Nox is both laughable and disturbing.

Can we stop considering combat displays as the only proof of power?

IMO, Yoda > Sidious, given Dooku's quote from DR.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
8. Check this. Jedi not disarmed, lightsaber not destroyed. Now check this. Jedi disarmed, lightsaber probably destroyed. Look familar? That's because those are the links I just posted, which you rather laughable ignored. The Sith Emperor was only able to destroy/disarm the Hero of Tython's and Tol Braga's lightsabers via prolonged exposure to a Force Storm and multiple bursts of lightning, whereas Sidious had no need for a Force Storm and merely required one burst to disarm a more powerful Force user. Are you getting this? Lets just be clear. Blast of the Sith Emperor's lightning, fails to disarm the Hero of Tython, fails to disarm Tol Braga. Blast of Sidious' lightning, succeeds in disarming Yoda.

Sith Emperor's advantages:[list][*]Up against lesser Force Users.
[*]Said Force Users forced to expend energy deflecting Force Storm.
[*]Able to fire off multiple bursts.
[/list] Still fails.

This is hilarious.

Yes, it's so unimpressive that Vitiate was unable to disarm 4 Jedi at once. He's so inferior to Sidious. It's so unimpressive that he couldn't disarm the Hero of Tython while simultaneously blasting a huge area with Force Storm and keeping 3 other powerful Jedi in check. What a loser.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
His is also canonically superior to the HoT and putting him on a lower level that Darth Nox is both laughable and disturbing.

I don't believe there is anything stating Yoda is canonically superior to the HoT?

Originally posted by Nephthys

If theres any proof Kaas is a nexus no one has ever provided it, nor proof that Vitiate was drawing on it. And if Vitiate did that then he wouldn't have needed to specifically create a nexus in the Dark Temple, would he?

We've already discussed that quote.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=685181

Sidious vs Vitiate finished, goodnight all.

For all that you guys label us as fanboys, you seem very intolerant of the idea that Sidious and Yoda might have equals or superiors other than Luke.

Originally posted by Nephthys
We've already discussed that quote.

Originally posted by Nephthys
For all that you guys label us as fanboys, you seem very intolerant of the idea that Sidious and Yoda might have equals or superiors other than Luke.

Or just intolerant of Moronic fanboys.

Try again.

Also, read the thread brah.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And the how was it shown that Kaas isn't a nexus when the definition of what makes something a nexus is one of the loosest I've ever seen?

We already discussed it and I do not want to do so again so soon.

Though looking at that holonet page it does seem to confirm that Vitiate caused the storms on DK. So it isn't mere hearsay, Beniboy.

Originally posted by Selenial
Or just intolerant of Moronic fanboys.

Try again.

Also, read the thread brah.

It seems that term applies to anyone disagreeing with you. I've yet even been enlightened about whom I am a fanboy for.

I doubt its anything I haven't already heard.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It seems that term applies to anyone disagreeing with you. I've yet even been enlightened about whom I am a fanboy for.

I doubt its anything I haven't already heard.

No, believe it or not it's a term for people who do anything to defend a character they like. Even try call sources outdated, despite that being explicitly stated to not be the way canon works.

To disregard higher canon sources just "'cause reasons"

Who refuse to even read a thread because they know their wrong.