Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I didn't misunderstood your ignorance, I made you aware of the fact that Emperor Vitiate is an ancient Sith Lord. You can try to paint your ignorance (of that time) with joke defense but you are not fooling me with this.Also, your trolling is becoming an issue. In each and every thread, you are just trolling and engaging in character-assassination attempts. This is not healthy.
I have recently reminded you of your "not so stellar" record in debates because of your trolling activities that are ongoing.
Don't lecture me about growing up. Pot calling kettle back.
Ooh, and there we go, Legend also admits to needing to grow up.
Also, only on this forum, because I can't take any of you seriously and Beni always beats me to it.
And you did, as two posts down I explained and you never replied, realising I was correct.
Not to mention every time I beat you in an argument on the TOR forums you just left.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Later. She was still running through lightning at one point.
Originally posted by you, referring to Dooku's lightning attack on Ventress on Ratattack
Second one, he hit her with lightning when she was recklessly running at him with no sign of defense.
You mind explaining the difference?
Originally posted by Nephthys1. Your not getting me. What I mean is a bolt of lightning not connected to anything i.e. not the wielders fingers or the target. What you described was the an instance in which the lightning was not connected to Dooku's fingers but was connected to Yoda's palm.
1. Yesssss, I win.Really? After Dooku stops attacking Yoda with his lightning it continues for a few seconds while separate from his fingers. I'd say it's pretty silly to believe that lightning can't leave the fingers, what do you think happens when you stop using force lightning? The lightning you've already generated doesn't wink out of existence, it continues forwards tapering off where you stopped. Vitiate just shot quick single bolts in rapid succession.
If I had to picture it it would go something like this:
But wouldn't he be putting his effort between blocking it with his hand and maintaining his grip?
Lol, it states that even deleted scenes and production notes are canon, of course scripts are.
Yeah, that's a really dumb thing. Yoda disarms Sidious and is reflecting his lightning back at him. Sidious "looks doomed". Then Yoda just jumps away and lets Sidious recover. Lmao, wtf?
Revan didn't even use a mental attack so whatever bro. Prove that his brief mental defense took a great deal of energy to pull off and I might concede that you have a point. In the book Revan disrupted Vitiates attack as soon as be begins to feel its pressure. I highly doubt he got tired from split second defense. And Revan didn't go "Oneness", he unleashed some Light and Dark energy in an explosion. Its totally baseless speculation that it took alot out of him.
Yoda might be the superior Force User, but thats made up for the fact that he's old as hell and uses an extremely energy intensive saber style, had just been knocked out and had been jumping around a massive arena dodging platforms. Yoda was at the very end of his fight while Revan was at the start. After this he gets knocked out and heals grievous burns and still stands up ready to continue fighting. After the Yoda thing he gave up and ran away. He was obviously in worse shape than Revan was. Yoda is [b]old
and walks with a cane, he gets tired much much quicker and easier than Revan does.Was Sidious' throne room a nexus?
I laughed. Sidious' superiority is self-evident, huh? Sure.
Maelstrom is a combination of 3 different Force attacks so its not just in the field of lightning. Plus Malgus, a lesser adept that Vitiate, could pull off that attack so it doesn't indicate anything. And Force Storm has little to do with lightning either so ok?
I didn't say that. I said he put focus into it. Vitiate spurned a lightsaber. How it inconceivable that the Sith who spent all his time investing in his Force powers would be superior in that aspect to the one who invested in both the Force and lightsaber combat? I actually think its silly to think that Sidious is so superior that he was more skilled in every aspect than Vitiate, even Vitiates specialty. [/B]
I believe this is down to how lightning works, it needs a path to follow from source to target. If it ends up lacking this path it would just shoot off in all directions and dissipate. Take a look at this. Notice that the sparks that fail to reach the ground just spiral off into nothing, the only proper bolt is the one that reaches the ground and creates a runway of sorts for the energy to travel down.
Given that, if the Sith Emperor unleashed a bolt of lightning that disconnected from his fingers, leaving nothing to direct it, it would just spiral away like a malfunctioning rocket and never reach its target.
And considering the speed at which lightining travels i.e. very fast, the Sith Emperor wouldn't be able to launch three lightining bolts in quick succession in that manner. Each burst would hit Revan's saber before he even finishing unleashing it, creating a brief runway of energy, then he'd disengage and fire the next, and the next. Effectively three consecutive bursts of what Sidious sent at Yoda, accept none of them succeed in disarming Revan.
Sidious could have probably done it with one, because despite Yoda's age and tiredness, he is still stronger than Revan.
2. It doesn't matter, by dividing the energy into two parts (or whatever ratio it divided by) he splits its power in half. If he had tried to block all of it with a saber, it would have been twice as powerful, and therefore still overwhelmed him. All this shows is that a mere portion of Sidious' lightning can disarm a Force User of Yoda's ability.
3. It says comments made by Lucas in the production notes are canon, not on-screen events. And lol deleted scenes are not canon they are non-canon, unless your suggesting that somehow Shaak Ti managed to die twice? I guess she was revived in the script right?
Fact of the matter is, nowhere is it stated that the script itself is canon. All that is canon is on screen, as we've been told time and time again.
Exactly, it didn't make it into the movie. Probably because Lucas wanted to stress that Sidious not Yoda was winning this fight.
4. Err, it requires use of the Force, and therefore depletes one's Force reserves. If you continually attack somebody with Force attacks, they will weaken. It was also with great difficulty that Revan overcame this attack.
And Oneness is all it could have been, because being able to use the Light and Dark as twin rivers is fanonical rubbish.
Anyway are we taking into account here that Sidious was fighting too? Against Yoda? i.e. the hurricane of doom? And then took the liberty of launching pods at him, that would have expended energy too. In fact at one point Sidious looks quite afraid and worried.
FYI: Yoda in battle uses Force Valor, which he would obviously be using to keep a grip on his lightsaber, cause like those old bones are going to be able to pull off something like this.
Not sure what the last part is all about, Revan was definitely worse for wear at the end of his confrontation with the Sith Emperor than Yoda.
But again you continually ignore the fact that Sidious was up against a far more powerful Force User, though I suspect that's because you actually agree with DarthAnt's claptrap and if the Maker help you.
5. The one on Byss was...
6. Feel free to prove otherwise. It would be a first.
7. Don't mean to be rude but your pulling facts out of your ass here. The Force Maelstrom is a master level power which obviously is going to need mastery over all of its attributes i.e. Force Lightning, Force shield and TK. And Sidious goes to great lengths to explain how the Force Maelstrom is about channeling your anger and hatred into a vital gate i.e. the core mechanics of Force Lightning. Noting that Force Lightning makes up is key destructive power, the protection bubble is just that, a bubble, the TK just draws everything into place, but it is the Lightning that vaporizes everything.
Noting in the first Bane novel how Bane's initial practice of lightning begins manifesting itself as the beginnings of a Force Maelstrom.
The Force storm has little to do with lightning?! Need I even go on? Need I even mention that it is described by Sidious a the culmination of the Force Maelstrom. That is is a pure manifestation of dark side energy? Of rage and hatred? i.e. the main property of Force Lightning? And that much like the Force Maelstrom at its core destructive power is
lightning.
What did you think it was made of? Jam?
Really though you've yet to provide a scrap of proof other than your own word that indicates the Sith Emperor is a superior wielder of lightning to Sidious. Sidious is capable of everything the Sith Emperor has ever done with lightning, absolutely everything.
8. Force Lightning, no matter how much you study up on it, will ultimately be limited by your power, how much raw power in the dark side you can channel into it. Knowledge can't get you everywhere if you lack the power. Sidious had that power and that is why he surpassed the Sith Emperor. Really you don't need to have lived that many years to master this ability, there is not much to it. Use your aggressive feelings, let the hate flow through you... blah blah blah done. Its a pretty basic Force Power when it comes down to it.
I expect he spent must of his time studying the far more complex and knowledge orientated Sith Sorcery. Though even in that respect there isn't much evidence he surpassed Sidious. Again knowledge can only get you so far. Do I really need to provide examples?
Originally posted by Selenial
Ooh, and there we go, Legend also admits to needing to grow up.Also, only on this forum, because I can't take any of you seriously and Beni always beats me to it.
And you did, as two posts down I explained and you never replied, realising I was correct.
Not to mention every time I beat you in an argument on the TOR forums you just left.
Regardless, you need to stop trolling and targeting me at personal capacity at various thread. Otherwise, I will collect all evidence and report your actions to the Moderators. Don't test my patience.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That she wasn't stopped dead in her tracks as Ventress was, isn't proof that she was using the force to resist the attack anymore than Ventress was. They both weren't put out instantly.
Um, yes it is? Both Braga and Soderu were stopped in their tracks by it, Warren by being hit and Braga by blocking it with his saber. So obviously the lightning is powerful enough that you can't just run through it. If she wasn't resisting it then she would have been stopped by the damage inflicted by being hit, like Soderu was, you obviously can't just keep running while being hit with lightning. Duh.
Originally posted by NephthysActually when I look at it he's waving his hand the entire time until the HoT comes up to him, then he stops. I can only assume this to mean that he does have to use is hands to channel power into it, else he would have stopped straight away and zapped them with lightning. However considering he was able to blast the HoT when he got close, I can only assume it could sustain itself for a brief amount of time before dissipating.
But he's still doing that stuff. I mean, he's not shooting lightning into the ground like in the video, but he wasn't doing that when he conjured the storm in the first place. He's doing exactly what he was, he's swirling with power, his hands are glowing etc. So theres no visible difference between him conjuring it and maintaining it other than that he's not gesturing.Dude, no way is it less impressive than Sidious knocking a tired Yoda's lightsaber out of his hand. Obviously. Also theres no indication that he needed to do it. It was easy for him and if you're right, he casually put out enough energy to pwn 4 Jedi for 20 seconds.
I still have no idea what the heck you mean here. The Force shields and lightsabers are blocking the same lightning bolts. What does it matter?
Because he was effing around and taking it casual?
Indeed when the Sith Emperor unleashes his final blast, the storm is completely gone. So again, when he's not waving his hand about, he's not channeling power into the storm. That is what I gather.
"Tired" Yoda > HoT, and Revan for that matter. Really if the Sith Emperor is capable of slapping down "tired" Yoda better than Sidious is, he really shouldn't struggle against the HoT or Revan, let alone Tol Braga.
No they are not, the lightning is all around them, you can't block it all with your lightsaber, only frontal assaults would be blockable with the lightsaber. This was a 360 degree onslaught.
And yeah cause he ruled as Emperor for over a thousand years by "effing around and taking it casual." Which, for the record, does not involve conjuring a massive Force Storm, then throwing a Force Blast at them. That is called being keen. If he was capable of just using lightning he wouldn't even need to get off his chair.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You beat me in argument, this is news to me.Regardless, you need to stop trolling and targeting me at personal capacity at various thread. Otherwise, I will collect all evidence and report your actions to the Moderators. Don't test my patience.
I could do exactly the same.
You referencing old threads or long gone discussions to discredit current arguments is against rules and intentional flaming.
Now stop talking to me,
Or replying to me, I'm never going to care what you have to say, the mods have asked us to stop so we will.
Don't reply to me again, I warn you it'll get you banned, and you care about your account more than I do.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDWhatever they may equal clearly the Jedi Strike Team =/= the Sith Emperor.
4 Ventress = Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga (Each one of the strongest and most resolute Jedi of the Order)?4 Ventess may not equal a Yoda but Yoda is not equaling the combined might of Tol Braga and HoT either, forget the entire referred Strike Team.
Yoda = Sidious. Do the math.
Oh I forgot, you think Sidous is lolpwns weak. My bad, forget I said anything.
Originally posted by Selenial
I could do exactly the same.You referencing old threads or long gone discussions to discredit current arguments is against rules and intentional flaming.
Now stop talking to me,
Or replying to me, I'm never going to care what you have to say, the mods have asked us to stop so we will.Don't reply to me again, I warn you it'll get you banned, and you care about your account more than I do.
You worry about your own account because I am sure Mods would like to review your trolling history, should I notify them.
I have no interest talking with you, it is you who came here and started attacking me since day 1 of joining.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are not in the position to warn me after all the trolling you have done.You worry about your own account because I am sure Mods would like to review your trolling history, should I notify them.
I have no interest talking with you, it is you who came here and started attacking me since day 1 of joining.
You have incredible biased views on a lot of things, anyone ever told you that?
I asked you not to reply.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66I'm not one to discredit my own arguments but I'm going to have to disagree with you there. They would have obviously had their Force Barriers up i.e. that which defends against Force-based attacks such as Force choke, which the lightning would have had to break through.
Yes, Yoda most likely surpasses the combined power of four Ventress', if you consider the ridiculous ease in which his equal can manipulate both Maul and Savage (both of whom are more powerful than Ventress) simultaneously with TK alone.You are absolutely correct.
Also, I'm not sure if you follow most of Neph's arguments regarding the lightning attacks of PT era characters, but according to him, Dooku didn't overpower Bulq's power when he blasted him unconscious because there is nothing to indicate that Bulq used the force to try to counter the assault. That same logic can be applied to Vitiate's defeat of the strike team. Only Braga and HoT used their lightsabers as a defense, while the others showed absolutely nothing to indicate they used anything to counter Vitiate's attack, not even the force. So Vitiate didn't overpower their combined power if there is nothing to indicate they used their power in an attempt to block the attack.
No, Neph, I'm not picking on you. I'm just helping Beniboy out, because he seems to have his hands full. Though, he's already winning, and is wasting his time on Ant and LeGenD.
😕
There is more point in having a flame war than having a serious debate with Ant and LeGenD.
Granted lightning seems to be much more effective against Force barriers than TK. And yes they never had a chance to use any kind of Force Deflection.
Side note, I'd definitely say the Sora Bulq, on a mission to confront Count Dooku would have his Force Barriers up. But we should not as a wielder of the Juyo form (he failed to master Vaapad) his Force barriers would be weaker than most as he puts all his power into offense.
But still, Sora Bulq is a powerful Force User.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are not in the position to warn me after all the trolling you have done.You worry about your own account because I am sure Mods would like to review your trolling history, should I notify them.
I have no interest talking with you, it is you who came here and started attacking me since day 1 of joining.
Originally posted by Selenial
You have incredible biased views on a lot of things, anyone ever told you that?I asked you not to reply.
Stop it both of you. I will turn this car around, I swear.
Take this to PM's or drop it completely.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Um, yes it is? Both Braga and Soderu were stopped in their tracks by it, Warren by being hit and Braga by blocking it with his saber. So obviously the lightning is powerful enough that you can't just run through it. If she wasn't resisting it then she would have been stopped by the damage inflicted by being hit, like Soderu was, you obviously can't just keep running while being hit with lightning. Duh.
Ok, so I read this about five times, and I'm not seeing this as evidence that she was using the force to resist anymore than Ventress. Again, I can use that same logic with Ventress, considering it took a far more sustained attack from Dooku, who was using both hands, than it did for him to blast Bulq unconscious, using one hand.
Basically all you did was compare her performance against Vitiate's lightning to the rest of the members of the strike team.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Ok, so I read this about five times, and I'm not seeing this as evidence that she was using the force to resist anymore than Ventress. Again, I can use that same logic with Ventress, considering it took a far more sustained attack from Dooku, who was using both hands, than it did for him to blast Bulq unconscious, using one hand.Basically all you did was compare her performance against Vitiate's lightning to the rest of the members of the strike team.
Ventress wasn't running through it though, she was twisting in agony and shitting her panties over it.
And that's not valid because? If Soderu, the guy with more scars that hairs was pwned istantly by getting hit by the lightning, why was Leeha running through it if not because she was tanking it with the Force.