Lobo vs Kurse

I don't understand why people are being so stringent on the writers point of view? Beta Ray Bill and Stardust had huge wars, Thor and the Surfer had huge wars, and this is before, and after Simonson ever took on the book. I thought that there was a rule of averages? If we stick with low showings Lobo has them as well. Lobo was rocked by a normal human with a sledge hammer to the jaw, this is hardly a guy that should be taking on someone that quadruples Thor in strength. So how about we average it out? Also trying to prove that Thor is weak is pretty silly in my opinion Rao.

Are there any high end feats of Kurse vs iron? Genuine question here, I'm not as familiar with him as I am Lobo.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Are there any high end feats of Kurse vs iron? Genuine question here, I'm not as familiar with him as I am Lobo.

Powers and abilities

Kurse possesses a number of superhuman attributes as a result of his natural dark elf physiology and mystical augmentation. Kurse's main advantage against foes is his strength - while initially a close match for Thor, his strength was first increased to twice, and then four times, that of Thor. Courtesy of enchanted armor that was fused to his skin by the Beyonder, Kurse is now almost totally invulnerable but like all Dark Elves is vulnerable to the element iron (Iron not comic book steel). Kurse also has the ability to sense and track his opponents over distances as great as continents and can see through illusions and disguises. His armor is a living, sentient, and enchanted armor that allows Kurse to see everything around him.

It says that he is vulnerable to Iron, not that it's going to automatically drop him off the charts. With it, that means that Lobo could do him harm, but this does not stop Kurse from doing harm to Lobo as well. It would be like being in a regular fight, as Lobo would be unable to hurt him without iron. How is his iron weakness a well known fact to the general public though?

Let's inspect this iron vulnerability a little bit. If Lobo does not have iron, this means that he would never be able to hurt Kurse, while with it he would be able to put some damage on him. Does Kurse stand there and take assault after assault, or will he fight back? I'm not buying Lobo's hog being able to take Kurse down either. Kurse was beating the life out of Beta Ray Bill, and Thor. Both of these guys can take a hell of a beating. If you look at Bill's fight with Stardust, you see how much abuse he can take. That's just Bill.

Since steel is not iron, Kurse may only take half damage from it, if any at all.

Originally posted by Stoic
Powers and abilities

Kurse possesses a number of superhuman attributes as a result of his natural dark elf physiology and mystical augmentation. Kurse's main advantage against foes is his strength - while initially a close match for Thor, his strength was first increased to twice, and then four times, that of Thor. Courtesy of enchanted armor that was fused to his skin by the Beyonder, Kurse is now almost totally invulnerable but like [b]all Dark Elves is vulnerable to the element iron (Iron not comic book steel). Kurse also has the ability to sense and track his opponents over distances as great as continents and can see through illusions and disguises. His armor is a living, sentient, and enchanted armor that allows Kurse to see everything around him.

It says that he is vulnerable to Iron, not that it's going to automatically drop him off the charts. With it, that means that Lobo could do him harm, but this does not stop Kurse from doing harm to Lobo as well. It would be like being in a regular fight, as Lobo would be unable to hurt him without iron. How is his iron weakness a well known fact to the general public though?

Let's inspect this iron vulnerability a little bit. If Lobo does not have iron, this means that he would never be able to hurt Kurse, while with it he would be able to put some damage on him. Does Kurse stand there and take assault after assault, or will he fight back? I'm not buying Lobo's hog being able to take Kurse down either. Kurse was beating the life out of Beta Ray Bill, and Thor. Both of these guys can take a hell of a beating. If you look at Bill's fight with Stardust, you see how much abuse he can take. That's just Bill.

Since steel is not iron, Kurse may only take half damage from it, if any at all. [/B]

Cars aren't made of iron. But steel.

Kurse was in agony from being bashed by a car. I took that scan, btw not from the Kurse lowballing thread, but from the Kurse RESPECT thread, when I tried to see how steel would affect him. It was also the very incident that Rage brought up to showcase how he could tank iron/steel.

So steel DOES cause him agony.

Then we have Balder agreeing that steel, containing iron, hurts Dark Elves. Balder doesn't really lie.

So I just, in the spirit of fairness, wanted to see some 'high' end showings of Kurse against steel/iron. Kurse hasn't had many showings, much less than Lobo, I'd wager, so any showings would obviously get given more weight.

As for the weakness detection, Lobo Vol 1 #2 shows that Lobo is able to detect weaknesses in his opponents. Here is another scan, showcasing it:

So yeah, he will know ALL about Kurse's weakness to iron. And will exploit it accordingly.

Half damage from being hit by steel? Gotta back that h1a8 factoid up with proof lol.

In addition, do you really think Bill can take as much damage as Lobo?

My Kurse picture from the respect thread didn't actually post, I see.

'Again you seek to bury me! In iron.....AAH...AAAARRGGH! The agony!'

Whilst being hit by a car. Which is made of steel, not iron.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Cars aren't made of iron. But steel.

Kurse was in agony from being bashed by a car. I took that scan, btw not from the Kurse lowballing thread, but from the Kurse RESPECT thread, when I tried to see how steel would affect him. It was also the very incident that Rage brought up to showcase how he could tank iron/steel.

So steel DOES cause him agony.

Then we have Balder agreeing that steel, containing iron, hurts Dark Elves. Balder doesn't really lie.

So I just, in the spirit of fairness, wanted to see some 'high' end showings of Kurse against steel/iron. Kurse hasn't had many showings, much less than Lobo, I'd wager, so any showings would obviously get given more weight.

As for the weakness detection, Lobo Vol 1 #2 shows that Lobo is able to detect weaknesses in his opponents. Here is another scan, showcasing it:

So yeah, he will know ALL about Kurse's weakness to iron. And will exploit it accordingly.

Half damage from being hit by steel? Gotta back that h1a8 factoid up with proof lol.

In addition, do you really think Bill can take as much damage as Lobo?

Car's today don't have much steel in them as far as body panels are concerned. At least this is what I thought. I mean who drives around in 57 Chevy's anymore?

I have the Who's Who comic that that scan came from. Lobo has undergone quite a few changes since those days. Just wanted to point out that writers aren't really that consistent with the character. Like I said, he goes from being visibly stunned from being hit in the face with a sledge hammer to digging out from under 1000 meters of rock, and using 18 wheelers like a baseball player uses a bat.

Looking deeper on this iron vulnerability that Kurse has, it is a vulnerability, and he could fight through it. Lobo could hurt him with it, but let's not pretend that Kurse could not hurt Lobo as well. In one of the scans that you posted up, Lobo is stuck in a barrel filed with cement, which is another example of the inconsistency surrounding him. Do you think that a guy with 4x Thor strength would have been stuck in it for even an instant? Iron does weaken Kurse in a sense, but it does not stop him from being as strong as he is. Superman was able to one shot KO Lobo, and break his chains. What stops Kurse from doing any of that?

So while Lobo could use exploitative tactics on Kurse, this does not mean that he would win, nor does it mean that Kurse could not hit him. Lobo's HF also does not mean that he can not be KO'd.

My point was not about the steel content, but rather, that it was made of steel in the first place.

Not iron.

It was in response to your belief that 'Kurse may only take half damage from it, if any at all'.

We know cars aren't made of iron. But of steel. And it obviously caused him agony, just from having it slammed on by Power Pack.

But like you said youself, writers aren't consistent.

Lobo has way more showings than Kurse, I think we both agree. And therefore, can be more inconsistent (more writers, over a longer period of time etc). Kurse SHOULD be more consistent.

And I haven't seen any high end steel resistance feats to think that the instance Lobo opens up with his guns, or knives, or hook, or chains, or bike, that it wouldn't cause Kurse agony either.

Originally posted by Stoic
Car's today don't have much steel in them as far as body panels are concerned. At least this is what I thought. I mean who drives around in 57 Chevy's anymore?

I have the Who's Who comic that that scan came from. Lobo has undergone quite a few changes since those days. Just wanted to point out that writers aren't really that consistent with the character. Like I said, he goes from being visibly stunned from being hit in the face with a sledge hammer to digging out from under 1000 meters of rock, and using 18 wheelers like a baseball player uses a bat.

Looking deeper on this iron vulnerability that Kurse has, it is a vulnerability, and he could fight through it. Lobo could hurt him with it, but let's not pretend that Kurse could not hurt Lobo as well. In one of the scans that you posted up, Lobo is stuck in a barrel filed with cement, which is another example of the inconsistency surrounding him. Do you think that a guy with 4x Thor strength would have been stuck in it for even an instant? Iron does weaken Kurse in a sense, but it does not stop him from being as strong as he is. Superman was able to one shot KO Lobo, and break his chains. What stops Kurse from doing any of that?

So while Lobo could use exploitative tactics on Kurse, this does not mean that he would win, nor does it mean that Kurse could not hit him. Lobo's HF also does not mean that he can not be KO'd.

BTW, it explicitly says that Lobo would get right onto it as soon as his hangover wore off.

So yeah, it wouldn't hold him for an instance - Lobo just couldn't be bothered, and preferred to stay down there.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
BTW, it explicitly says that Lobo would get right onto it as soon as his hangover wore off.

So yeah, it wouldn't hold him for an instance - Lobo just couldn't be bothered, and preferred to stay down there.

I got you, and understand that. However Kurse still has a large strength advantage over Lobo. Also to answer your question from earlier, Bill can not take as much damage as Lobo, but at the same time, Bill is more durable than Lobo is, so he wouldn't really have to. If Bill fought Lobo they would likely be a good match up, the HF would serve to keep Lobo in the fight because without it he would be pretty ripped up IMO.

Originally posted by JBL
As long as I'm writing the character, he won't be so strong that he makes other characters look foolish. He is just in the same league as the Hulk, Thor, Superman, Sentry, Orion, J'onn J'onzz, etc. He's NOT above them." Interview with creator Kevin Grevioux

He's talking about his creation the Blue Marvel. And he used the word STRONG. Oh yeah, Thor's name is in there. The day you get your nose out of superman's butt and actually look at writers and creators statements and interviews, you would look less like a donkeys rear when you post your love for the house of Els cape wearing Idol. 😮‍💨

No substance.

No logic.

No canon.

In short, a typical JBL post.

I don't think the Thor Corps will answer my challenge for you so I'll wait for you to ACTUALLY do so.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My Kurse picture from the respect thread didn't actually post, I see.

'Again you seek to bury me! In iron.....AAH...AAAARRGGH! The agony!'

Whilst being hit by a car. Which is made of steel, not iron.

meh, that's the 80's for ya. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
your 'average' steel is composed of roughly 95% iron. since kurse is vulnerable to iron, logic dictates that iron-rich alloys would also be able to cause him a degree of harm. although it's worth noting that kurse had the iron framework of a very large multi-story building dropped on his domepiece in the same issue, and was left none the worse for wear(other than being buried, obviously.) granted kurse said that he was in "pain" afterward--but he certainly didn't scream out in agony, like he did when power pack threw a police cruiser on him. i've always found that amusing because a police cruiser weighs maybe 2 tons fully loaded--whereas the aforementioned iron framework would have weighed hundredS of tons.

meh, that's the 80's for ya. 👆

👆

Plus, Hercules has called them out on it before:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
As for steel/iron, let's us all take a knee, and listen to the wise wise words of Hercules:

80s, eh? A crazy time.

Originally posted by Stoic
I don't understand why people are being so stringent on the writers point of view? Beta Ray Bill and Stardust had huge wars, Thor and the Surfer had huge wars, and this is before, and after Simonson ever took on the book. I thought that there was a rule of averages? If we stick with low showings Lobo has them as well. Lobo was rocked by a normal human with a sledge hammer to the jaw, this is hardly a guy that should be taking on someone that quadruples Thor in strength. So how about we average it out? Also trying to prove that Thor is weak is pretty silly in my opinion Rao.

Look at his "average" feats of strength that you can find in his respect thread and compare those feats of strength with those of Hulk.

I will probably get a lot of heat for this, but Thor's average strength feats are so measly compared to Superman's average strength feats, that if I were to make a respect thread for Superman I will not even consider those feats worth mentioning.

There is a reason why Marvel/DC listed Thor with "Super human strength" and Hulk and Superman with "VAST Super human strength"

Now take a look at the second showing of Kurse and you tell me who look better vs Thor if Kurse or a handicapped Professor Hulk.

Honestly I don't see what is the big deal with Kurse, I find Hulk more intimidating than Kurse, but We are all entitled to our own opinion.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆

Plus, Hercules has called them out on it before:

80s, eh? A crazy time.

lol classic herc. luvs him i tells ya!

I thought it had to be cold iron?

Good fight. Kurse 6/10

The only way Lobo could beat Kurse is using the iron weakness, without that as an option, Lobo gets beat down in the end.

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
I thought it had to be cold iron?

Nah.

A car has caused him agony before.

Hercules and Balder both agree that steel would do.

All it has to do, it seems, is contain iron. Steel is pretty much iron, anyway - just with added carbon (about 2%?)

Lobo will beat Kurse without iron pretty easily. Healing factor and superior strength.

Originally posted by sernyak
Lobo will beat Kurse without iron pretty easily. Healing factor and superior strength.