Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Look at his "average" feats of strength that you can find in his respect thread and compare those feats of strength with those of Hulk.I will probably get a lot of heat for this, but Thor's average strength feats are so measly compared to Superman's average strength feats, that if I were to make a respect thread for Superman I will not even consider those feats worth mentioning.
There is a reason why Marvel/DC listed Thor with "Super human strength" and Hulk and Superman with "VAST Super human strength"
Now take a look at the second showing of Kurse and you tell me who look better vs Thor if Kurse or a handicapped Professor Hulk.
Honestly I don't see what is the big deal with Kurse, I find Hulk more intimidating than Kurse, but We are all entitled to our own opinion.
I don't have any bone in this fight (the whole dick riding of characters like Thor, Superman e.t.c is not just tiring but boring) but statements like these are really problematic.
Superman, Hulk and Thor are in the same strength class.
Hulk isn't much stronger than Thor. Those characters have gone the distance several times and it's clear to everyone that they are easily in the same class. Hulk might be well be stronger but the difference just isn't enough to make a difference in their battles.
I mean, Thor has even battled an amped Hulk to a standstill and with the exception of some strange one-shots (like Hulk: Let the battle begin) those two have always been depicted as equals. Some fans might not like it but that's just the way it is and it doesn't look like Marvel is going to change it anytime soon.
As per feats, these three characters have insane strength feats and ridiculous lows. It's the nature of superhero comics where there are different writers that have different ideas on what extreme power should be (case in point, a guy like Bendis just doesn't write characters to that extreme level, its just his way of writing) that depictions aren't always consistent but we generally have an idea of where each character's power level is.
Thor is uber-strong, Aaron's current run has him performing some ridiculous feats like shattering planets from miles away when cutting loose with mjolnir and lifting massive mountains from Jotunheim. We've seen Superman lift the equivalent weight of the Earth for days and Hulk's strength being described as incalculable. Just looking at these characters feats suggest they are easily at the same level.
Now, when we get to guys like Kurse, these guys are just stronger the aforementioned significantly. Kurse being four (4) times stronger than someone like Thor who possesses at best "planetary" level strength means that guys like Lobo don't stand a chance without some outside help (like the application of iron).
Originally posted by deathlife
I don't have any bone in this fight (the whole dick riding of characters like Thor, Superman e.t.c is not just tiring but boring) but statements like these are really problematic.Superman, Hulk and Thor are in the same strength class.
I disagree
Originally posted by deathlife
Hulk isn't much stronger than Thor. Those characters have gone the distance several times and it's clear to everyone that they are easily in the same class. Hulk might be well be stronger but the difference just isn't enough to make a difference in their battles.I mean, Thor has even battled an amped Hulk to a standstill and with the exception of some strange one-shots (like Hulk: Let the battle begin) those two have always been depicted as equals. Some fans might not like it but that's just the way it is and it doesn't look like Marvel is going to change it anytime soon.
Take away the mallet and how does Thor ends up performing vs The Hulk? Mjolnir makes up the lack of strength.
That is how it has been shown by different writers and many will agree that if you take Mjolnir away from Thor, he is just simply outperformed in the strength dept.
Originally posted by deathlife
As per feats, these three characters have insane strength feats and ridiculous lows. It's the nature of superhero comics where there are different writers that have different ideas on what extreme power should be (case in point, a guy like Bendis just doesn't write characters to that extreme level, its just his way of writing) that depictions aren't always consistent but we generally have an idea of where each character's power level is.
Like you said writers have different ideas, come up with a decent feat of strength made by Thor under Simonson and amp that by 4
Now take a look at how Kurse was treated by another writer, Professor Hulk ended up looking better than Kurse
Originally posted by deathlife
Thor is uber-strong, Aaron's current run has him performing some ridiculous feats like shattering planets from miles away when cutting loose with mjolnir and lifting massive mountains from Jotunheim. We've seen Superman lift the equivalent weight of the Earth for days and Hulk's strength being described as incalculable. Just looking at these characters feats suggest they are easily at the same level.
Aaron's Thor is only ONE depiction of Thor, this does not becomes the standard for Thor, but lets say you are correct and that Thor under Aaron is the average for Thor 1 planetary mass x 4 = 4 planetary masses. IIRC Lobo has stellar mass feats, stellar mass >>>>>>> planetary mass, so Lobo is being portrayed at ridiculous level's of strength compared to thor relatively speaking
Originally posted by deathlife
Now, when we get to guys like Kurse, these guys are just stronger the aforementioned significantly. Kurse being four (4) times stronger than someone like Thor who possesses at best "planetary" level strength means that guys like Lobo don't stand a chance without some outside help (like the application of iron).
Lobo pulls solar mass, solar mass >>>>>>>>>>>>>> planetary mass or planetary mass x 4
Originally posted by Galan007
So basically this is WHY I disagree
Originally posted by Rao Kal El*slow clap*
I disagreeTake away the mallet and how does Thor ends up performing vs The Hulk? Mjolnir makes up the lack of strength.
That is how it has been shown by different writers and many will agree that if you take Mjolnir away from Thor, he is just simply outperformed in the strength dept.
Like you said writers have different ideas, come up with a decent feat of strength made by Thor under Simonson and amp that by 4
Now take a look at how Kurse was treated by another writer, Professor Hulk ended up looking better than Kurse
Aaron's Thor is only ONE depiction of Thor, this does not becomes the standard for Thor, but lets say you are correct and that Thor under Aaron is the average for Thor 1 planetary mass x 4 = 4 planetary masses. IIRC Lobo has stellar mass feats, stellar mass >>>>>>> planetary mass, so Lobo is being portrayed at ridiculous level's of strength compared to thor relatively speaking
Lobo pulls solar mass, solar mass >>>>>>>>>>>>>> planetary mass or planetary mass x 4
So basically this is WHY I disagree
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I disagreeTake away the mallet and how does Thor ends up performing vs The Hulk? Mjolnir makes up the lack of strength.
That is how it has been shown by different writers and many will agree that if you take Mjolnir away from Thor, he is just simply outperformed in the strength dept.
Like you said writers have different ideas, come up with a decent feat of strength made by Thor under Simonson and amp that by 4
Now take a look at how Kurse was treated by another writer, Professor Hulk ended up looking better than Kurse
Aaron's Thor is only ONE depiction of Thor, this does not becomes the standard for Thor, but lets say you are correct and that Thor under Aaron is the average for Thor 1 planetary mass x 4 = 4 planetary masses. IIRC Lobo has stellar mass feats, stellar mass >>>>>>> planetary mass, so Lobo is being portrayed at ridiculous level's of strength compared to thor relatively speaking
Lobo pulls solar mass, solar mass >>>>>>>>>>>>>> planetary mass or planetary mass x 4
So basically this is WHY I disagree
Fair enough.
Without his hammer we've seen Thor and Hulk engage themselves in some form of "grapple" for hours (Defenders/Avengers War) without a clear winner. I can't remember the Thor issue that he threw away his hammer and battled Hulk to a stalemate. Thor has done plenty good without his hammer.
Aaron's depiction of Thor is a cannon depiction of the character and doesn't really contradict anything that's come before and we don't know if the planet shattering was the limit of his strength(he actually had to abandon the fight with Gorr because he was shattering that planet). Not to mention the fact that Thor was destroying planetary mass and not moving it, hence a direct comparison can not be made destroying something and lifting it.
However, if we're going to go by your argument Lobo pulling that stellar mass is ONE depiction of the character and even at that, going by his average, he hasn't been able to out down high heralds in straight battles (which probably counts more than lifting feats) so, I see him in that category.
That's a category that Kurse operates above IMO.
Originally posted by deathlifeLobo has straight up beaten Superman, Green Lantern, Atrocitus, Star Saphire, and Doctor Fate. There are probably more characters that he has beaten but I just can't remember them offhand.
However, if we're going to go by your argument Lobo pulling that stellar mass is ONE depiction of the character and even at that, going by his average, he hasn't been able to out down high heralds in straight battles (which probably counts more than lifting feats) so, I see him in that category.That's a category that Kurse operates above IMO.
Originally posted by deathslash
Lobo has straight up beaten Superman, Green Lantern, Atrocitus, Star Saphire, and Doctor Fate. There are probably more characters that he has beaten but I just can't remember them offhand.
Whoa!
Lobo has beaten Superman? I've seen plenty of battles between them but he's never been able to put down Supes.
I do remember Eclipso infected Superman punching Lobo so hard that he was barely breathing afterwards.
Originally posted by deathlife
Whoa!Lobo has beaten Superman? I've seen plenty of battles between them but he's never been able to put down Supes.
I do remember Eclipso infected Superman punching Lobo so hard that he was barely breathing afterwards.
Originally posted by deathslash
Lobo has straight up beaten Superman, Green Lantern, Atrocitus, Star Saphire, and Doctor Fate. There are probably more characters that he has beaten but I just can't remember them offhand.
Originally posted by deathlife
Whoa!Lobo has beaten Superman? I've seen plenty of battles between them but he's never been able to put down Supes.
I do remember Eclipso infected Superman punching Lobo so hard that he was barely breathing afterwards.
Actually, to my knowledge, Lobo has never beaten Superman. The instance Abhi cited, Lobo did beat the shit out of Superman, but he didn't actually beat him. In the end, Superman out-smarted him. Like Abhi mentioned, Eradicator was influencing Superman, reducing his fighting ability. Every fight I know of after(when Eradicator wasn't influencing him), Lobo either stalemates or loses(including one of each in the same comic under I believe the same writer).
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Take away the mallet and how does Thor ends up performing vs The Hulk? Mjolnir makes up the lack of strength.That is how it has been shown by different writers and many will agree that if you take Mjolnir away from Thor, he is just simply outperformed in the strength dept.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not really.
Shall we remember how hulk outperformed physically thor on a THOR comic when Thor did not have the mallet?
Logic dictates that betwen two guys with EQUAL strength but one having a warriors training and a mystical weapon should beat the crap out of the brute troglodite who only relies on strength, yet it almost never happens.
Maybe they are not as equal as many would like us to think they are.
That on top of the AVERAGE feats of strength between Hulk and Thor.
They might have been equal a loooong time ago, but those times are gone, IMO
Originally posted by Delta1938
Actually, to my knowledge, Lobo has never beaten Superman. The instance Abhi cited, Lobo did beat the shit out of Superman, but he didn't actually beat him. In the end, Superman out-smarted him. Like Abhi mentioned, Eradicator was influencing Superman, reducing his fighting ability. Every fight I know of after(when Eradicator wasn't influencing him), Lobo either stalemates or loses(including one of each in the same comic under I believe the same writer).
Lobo was actually too drunk to complete the contract is what actually happened. Superman was being beaten so badly that he had to climb into one of his battle suits, and he was still getting trashed from what I recall of that particular fight.
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Shall we remember how hulk outperformed physically thor on a THOR comic when Thor did not have the mallet?Logic dictates that betwen two guys with EQUAL strength but one having a warriors training and a mystical weapon should beat the crap out of the brute troglodite who only relies on strength, yet it almost never happens.
Maybe they are not as equal as many would like us to think they are.
That on top of the AVERAGE feats of strength between Hulk and Thor.
They might have been equal a loooong time ago, but those times are gone, IMO
So you believe Hulk is significantly stronger? Not sure what you're trying to get at.
