Captain Marvel VS Kurse

Originally posted by Galan007
^ obviously your levels of butthurtery have reached an all-time high, as evident by this childishness. sorry, next time i'll try not to DESTROY your little theories with incontrovertible on panel evidence. stay mad, though. 👆

also, reported. 👆

except for the fact that we were told EXACTLY when the k-nite ACTUALLY started to pierce earth's atmosphere--and it wasn't until issue #6:

therefore loeb rendered the ambiguous dialogue that took place BEFORE issue #6 entirely obsolete.

If that will be the case, since the words "magic" and "Captain Marvel" are not mentioned after that incident, they are at best ambiguous and obsolete.

But We know that Loeb is emphasizing ideas, for example he emphasizes "magic" and "shade" to give us the idea that Superman in BEING affected by the magic of Shade.

As it is, I don't think you will change my point of view nor I will change yours, so We can just leave it that.

But IMO Loeb was doing this with the idea of emphasizing important elements on the story

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
If that will be the case, since the words "magic" and "Captain Marvel" are not mentioned after that incident, they are at best ambiguous and obsolete.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
But We know that Loeb is emphasizing ideas, for example he emphasizes "magic" and "shade" to give us the idea that Superman in BEING affected by the magic of Shade.

As it is, I don't think you will change my point of view nor I will change yours, so We can just leave it that.

But IMO Loeb was doing this with the idea of emphasizing important elements on the story

issue #6 is when we were flat-out told that the k-nite radiation was just starting to pierce earth's atmosphere. assuming it had already pierced the atmosphere 2 issues prior, is to blatantly ignore established on panel fact, in favor of ambiguous character-hypothesizing. in fact, that line of logic doesn't even make sense, as the most current information=the most canon information. ALWAYS.

there's really no need to contort scenes and ignore evidence just to try and make superman look better. no one is claiming that shazam is more powerful than he, after all.

Originally posted by Galan007
terrible analogy.

nah.

issue #6 is when we were flat-out told that the k-nite radiation was just starting to pierce earth's atmosphere. assuming it had already pierced the atmosphere 2 issues prior, is to blatantly ignore established on panel fact, in favor of ambiguous character-hypothesizing. in fact, that line of logic doesn't even make sense, as the most current information=the most canon information. ALWAYS.

there's really no need to contort scenes and ignore evidence just to try and make superman look better. no one is claiming that shazam is more powerful than he, after all.

Originally posted by Galan007
terrible analogy.

nah.

issue #6 is when we were flat-out told that the k-nite radiation was just starting to pierce earth's atmosphere. assuming it had already pierced the atmosphere 2 issues prior, is to blatantly ignore established on panel fact, in favor of ambiguous character-hypothesizing. in fact, that line of logic doesn't even make sense, as the most current information=the most canon information. ALWAYS.

there's really no need to contort scenes and ignore evidence just to try and make superman look better. no one is claiming that shazam is more powerful than he, after all.

Then explain to me, why the words "magic" and "shade" are being ambiguously highlighted on the story?

Originally posted by Galan007
terrible analogy.

nah.

issue #6 is when we were flat-out told that the k-nite radiation was just starting to pierce earth's atmosphere. assuming it had already pierced the atmosphere 2 issues prior, is to blatantly ignore established on panel fact, in favor of ambiguous character-hypothesizing. in fact, that line of logic doesn't even make sense, as the most current information=the most canon information. ALWAYS.

there's really no need to contort scenes and ignore evidence just to try and make superman look better. no one is claiming that shazam is more powerful than he, after all.

Well then, let's take a look at what happened in #4 just prior to Captain Marvel's attack.

Superman asks Power Girl if she feels anything. Power Girl says no and asks him. He says it's just been a long night. BUT Superman's narration states that's weird, I'd say the way it's written shows confusion, then he immediately brings-up that she recently reacted to Kryptonite. So, if it wasn't effecting him, why exactly would he ask her if she feels anything, then in narration find it strange she doesn't feel anything, before bringing-up that she recently reacted to Kryptonite?

And let's take a look at the actual scene you cite, not just Batman's narration.

SUPERMAN: "We HAVE to--go--NOW." TOYMAN: Hey, you okay? You look like you're going to PUKE." SUPERMAN: "I'm fine." THEN we get Batman's narration.

So, Batman says it's penetrating Earth's atmosphere when Superman is doing poorly enough to the point that Bruce is sure that Clark is effected, and Toyman notices Supes isn't well. But he still claims he's fin

So, in #4, we have Superman, after being told he was slow, ask Power Girl if she feels anything, is surprised she doesn't, and brings-up PeeGee reacting to Kryptonite recently. Yes, Superman says he was trying to avoid Toyman's RADAR, and says "long night" when Power Girl asks if he feels anything, but also when Toyman says Supes looks like he's going to puke, Superman says he's fine.

So, we have a couple possibilities here. One: Superman was fine before Captain Marvel attacked and for some reason unrelated to Kryptonite, just decided to ask PeeGee if she felt anything, said it was weird she didn't feel anything and brought-up her reacting no Kryptonite for no particular reason, Superman told the truth to PeeGee, Katana and Bruce about feeling fine, but lies to Toyman, and you're correct in your interpretation that Batman's narration is when the Kryptonite actually penetrates Earth's atmosphere. Or, Superman was not fine, was lying about trying to fly under Toyman's RADAR and that it was simply a long night, and Batman was simply sure that the Kryptonite was penetrating Earth's atmosphere, but it doesn't mean it WAS the point it started. After all, Loeb had already established things before #4.

Saying it's "ambiguous" wouldn't be grasping at straws if Loeb didn't keep bringing it up.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Well then, let's take a look at what happened in #4 just prior to Captain Marvel's attack.

Superman asks Power Girl if she feels anything. Power Girl says no and asks him. He says it's just been a long night. BUT Superman's narration states that's weird, I'd say the way it's written shows confusion, then he immediately brings-up that she recently reacted to Kryptonite. So, if it wasn't effecting him, why exactly would he ask her if she feels anything, then in narration find it strange she doesn't feel anything, before bringing-up that she recently reacted to Kryptonite?

And let's take a look at the actual scene you cite, not just Batman's narration.

SUPERMAN: "We HAVE to--go--NOW." TOYMAN: Hey, you okay? You look like you're going to PUKE." SUPERMAN: "I'm fine." THEN we get Batman's narration.

So, Batman says it's penetrating Earth's atmosphere when Superman is doing poorly enough to the point that Bruce is sure that Clark is effected, and Toyman notices Supes isn't well. But he still claims he's fin

So, in #4, we have Superman, after being told he was slow, ask Power Girl if she feels anything, is surprised she doesn't, and brings-up PeeGee reacting to Kryptonite recently. Yes, Superman says he was trying to avoid Toyman's RADAR, and says "long night" when Power Girl asks if he feels anything, but also when Toyman says Supes looks like he's going to puke, Superman says he's fine.

So, we have a couple possibilities here. One: Superman was fine before Captain Marvel attacked and for some reason unrelated to Kryptonite, just decided to ask PeeGee if she felt anything, said it was weird she didn't feel anything and brought-up her reacting no Kryptonite for no particular reason, Superman told the truth to PeeGee, Katana and Bruce about feeling fine, but lies to Toyman, and you're correct in your interpretation that Batman's narration is when the Kryptonite actually penetrates Earth's atmosphere. Or, Superman was not fine, was lying about trying to fly under Toyman's RADAR and that it was simply a long night, and Batman was simply sure that the Kryptonite was penetrating Earth's atmosphere, but it doesn't mean it WAS the point it started. After all, Loeb had already established things before #4.

Saying it's "ambiguous" wouldn't be grasping at straws if Loeb didn't keep bringing it up.

👆

You convinced me.

Originally posted by Delta1938

as was explicitly stated: the k-nite radiation didn't start to pierce earth's atmosphere until issue #6. therefore ambiguous dialogue from previous issues is entirely inconsequential. simple facts are simple. 🙂

The comic blatantly says it's weird that Power Girl doesn't feel the kryptonite. That means the kryptonite IS PRESENT.

The expression, "is starting to" can mean many things in general. It can mean, it has already happened but not so long ago. For example, when Lebron James was getting a lot better years ago, it was stated many times that he's starting to get good. But he was already got good before they said this, otherwise they wouldn't have seen it.

Originally posted by Galan007
...none of which changes the fact that the dialogue in issue #4 was ambiguous, whereas this statement from issue #6 was absolutely NOT:

as was explicitly stated: the k-nite radiation didn't start to pierce earth's atmosphere until issue #6. therefore ambiguous dialogue from previous issues is entirely inconsequential. simple facts are simple. 🙂

The comic blatantly says it's weird that Power Girl doesn't feel the kryptonite. That means the kryptonite IS PRESENT.
In other words, the kryptonite radiation is starting to pierce the atmosphere CAN mean that it already has, but started not so long ago.

"Starting" implies present tense or what's happening now. That means it first STARTED IN THE PAST.

Kryptonite hitting the Earth's atmosphere at 10:02 can be said to be starting to pierce the atmosphere even at 10:30 (or any time before that's within the context of things).

Originally posted by Galan007
...none of which changes the fact that the dialogue in issue #4 was ambiguous, whereas this statement from issue #6 was absolutely NOT:

as was explicitly stated: the k-nite radiation didn't start to pierce earth's atmosphere until issue #6. therefore ambiguous dialogue from previous issues is entirely inconsequential. simple facts are simple. 🙂

Gotcha. You're still grasping at straws, and it's official that you posted that narration out of context to be misleading. Unless you simply missed such an obvious scene.

👆 Good day ma'am.

Originally posted by h1a8
The comic blatantly says it's weird that Power Girl doesn't feel the kryptonite. That means the kryptonite IS PRESENT.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Gotcha. You're still grasping at straws, and it's official that you posted that narration out of context to be misleading. Unless you simply missed such an obvious scene.

👆 Good day ma'am.

Originally posted by Galan007
terrible analogy.

nah.

issue #6 is when we were flat-out told that the k-nite radiation was just starting to pierce earth's atmosphere. assuming it had already pierced the atmosphere 2 issues prior, is to blatantly ignore established on panel fact, in favor of ambiguous character-hypothesizing. in fact, that line of logic doesn't even make sense, as the most current information=the most canon information. ALWAYS.

there's really no need to contort scenes and ignore evidence just to try and make superman look better. no one is claiming that shazam is more powerful than he, after all.

👆

Reporting people for disagreeing? Honestly, Batman can be wrong, piercing the atmosphere might even mean that it is everywhere now. From what was presented it makes perfect sense that Superman was affected and wondered why PG isn't. Is this really such a big deal?

Also when Batman states it Superman is already sick, so it had to be there else it wouldn't make sense. Also the words of a char != narrator.

Originally posted by Galan007
no, it absolutely does NOT say that.

reported. 👆

Yes it does. Why in the hell would the comic say "That's weird!"? What the phuck is "weird"? It's clear as day.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Reporting people for disagreeing? Honestly, Batman can be wrong, piercing the atmosphere might even mean that it is everywhere now. From what was presented it makes perfect sense that Superman was affected and wondered why PG isn't. Is this really such a big deal?

Also when Batman states it Superman is already sick, so it had to be there else it wouldn't make sense. Also the words of a char != narrator.

👆

"Starting" implies present tense or what's happening now. That means the event actually STARTED IN THE PAST (before the comment is said).

Kryptonite piercing the Earth's atmosphere at 10:02 can be said to be "starting to" pierce the atmosphere even at 10:04 without being incorrect (or any time before that, as long as it's within the context of things).

It didn't start affecting him until issue 6. He was perfectly ok before hand then once the Kryptonite was close enough for him to feel the radiation, it affected him like it always does. Was there anything hinted on Superman being weakened during and before facing Captain Marvel. H1, do not reply to me because I don't care what you say.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Reporting people for disagreeing?

Originally posted by carver9
It didn't start affecting him until issue 6. He was perfectly ok before hand then once the Kryptonite was close enough for him to feel the radiation, it affected him like it always does. Was there anything hinted on Superman being weakened during and before facing Captain Marvel. H1, do not reply to me because I don't care what you say.

issue #1:
a scientist states the radiation "COULD" start affecting earth once it reaches saturn. "COULD" implies uncertainty. "WILL" implies fact:

ie. ambiguous

issue #4:
superman is asked why it took him so long to fly to a specific location, and responds that it was intentional:

ie. ambiguous

batman then hypothesizes that the k-nite radiation may already be affecting him. HOWEVER, he premises that assertion with "I CANNOT BE CERTAIN.":

ie. ambiguous

and say what you will about this scene, but absolutely NOTHING in it states that superman was yet "weakened" by the k-nite, as the superman faction is baselessly trying to claim:

ie. ambiguous

fast-forward to issue #6, and we are explicitly TOLD, with no ambiguity to be had, that the k-nite has "STARTED TO" pierce the atmosphere and affect supes:

ie. unambiguous

ergo, the k-nite didn't officially get through the atmosphere until issue #6. simple. 🙂

So you take, against everything presented before and even Batmans doubts before, Batmans one statement as a fact? Seriously, that's all you base you argument on?

Galan, is it hard for you to admit when you are wrong?

Still, piercing the atmosphere might mean that it becomes omnipresent, and leaves still the possibility that it was already there with a smaller degree, which would fit to everything else that was presented.

Agree to disagree.

Stop hating btw and don't try to save face by accusing others of bias. That's just lulzworthy. I expected better from you tbh.

Edit: Report me as much as you want. My trolling is as much a fact as your stance in this thread and i won't get a warning for something that is only in YOUR head. Grow up man and behave, what happened to you?

Originally posted by Galan007
reported for trollng, actually. would you like me to repost some of his childishness? i'd be more than happy to. 🙂

exactly, carver. the superman faction is simply putting their own twist on the scene, as usual. i'll break things down again(though it'll ultimately be a pointless endeavor, i'm sure)...

issue #1:
a scientist states the radiation "COULD" start affecting earth once it reaches saturn. "COULD" implies uncertainty. "WILL" implies fact:

ie. ambiguous

issue #4:
superman is asked why it took him so long to fly to a specific location, and responds that it was intentional:

ie. ambiguous

batman then hypothesizes that the k-nite radiation may already be affecting him. HOWEVER, he premises that assertion with "I CANNOT BE CERTAIN.":

ie. ambiguous

and say what you will about this scene, but absolutely NOTHING in it states that superman was yet "weakened" by the k-nite, as the superman faction is baselessly trying to claim:

ie. ambiguous

fast-forward to issue #6, and we are explicitly TOLD, with no ambiguity to be had, that the k-nite has "STARTED TO" pierce the atmosphere and affect supes:

ie. unambiguous

ergo, k-nite hadn't retroactively pierced the atmosphere prior to issue #6. that 'logic' makes no sense at all, actually. and again: the most recent info=the most canon.

You are changing the words of the comic. It says "starting to", not "started to"

"Starting" implies present tense or what's happening now. That means the event actually STARTED IN THE PAST (before the comment is said).

Kryptonite piercing the Earth's atmosphere at 10:02 can be said to be "starting to" pierce the atmosphere even at 10:04 without being incorrect (or any time before that, as long as it's within the context of things).

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
So you take, against everything presented before and even Batmans doubts before, Batmans one statement as a fact? Seriously, that's all you base you argument on?

Galan, is it hard for you to admit when you are wrong?

Still, piercing the atmosphere might mean that it becomes omnipresent, and leaves still the possibility that it was already there with a smaller degree, which would fit to everything else that was presented.

Agree to disagree.

Stop hating btw and don't try to save face by accusing others of bias. That's just lulzworthy. I expected better from you tbh.

we weren't explictly told that the radiation had pierced the atmosphere until issue #6. before that all we were given were ambiguous hypotheses. simple logic is simple.

yet I'M the one who can't admit when they're wrong. lol. 🙂

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Edit: Report me as much as you want. My trolling is as much a fact as your stance in this thread and i won't get a warning for something that is only in YOUR head. Grow up man and behave, what happened to you?