First Hokage and Madara Uchiha vs Yamamoto and Chojiro

Originally posted by socool8520
^ So by your words alone you are kind of saying that most characters in Bleach are too slow to avoid stuff.Or their reflexes suck.

No, they KNOW when they are capable of withstanding a hit and either through arrogance or power take it. The characters known for speed avoid everything. Kenpachi knows for example that almost nothing can cut him and often through taunting simply takes damage. Bleach is about resihi and physical power to withstand. If an insignificant feat is about to hit someone they don't even flinch. What I am saying is that in Naruto Universe, no one has the real durability to really stand their and take any attack. I mean they often avoid even shuriken attacks regardless of their level. Madara DIES to being stabbed by one. 😐

Originally posted by socool8520
I mean from what I have read on Kenpachi (a guy everyone seems to love), he kind of just stands there.

He doesn't train to move because he is a berserker; the more damage he takes and closer to death he gets the more power he can release so it is in his best interest to make a fight harder. His strength is intimidation of his enemy by showing them they are powerless against his level of reishi. They cannot touch him and he can cut anything. His shikai release is literally the ability to cut anything.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
No, they KNOW when they are capable of withstanding a hit and either through arrogance or power take it. The characters known for speed avoid everything. Kenpachi knows for example that almost nothing can cut him and often through taunting simply takes damage. Bleach is about resihi and physical power to withstand. If an insignificant feat is about to hit someone they don't even flinch. What I am saying is that in Naruto Universe, no one has the real durability to really stand their and take any attack. I mean they often avoid even shuriken attacks regardless of their level. Madara DIES to being stabbed by one. 😐

Jiraiya fought with his arm ripped off.
Tsunade tanked being stabbed in the chest on more than one occasion.
Zabuza early in the manga fought while being stabbed with numerous swords.
Hiruzen pulled off a techniques with a sword through his body. Orochimaru has been punched multiple times by Tsunade who crashed an outer village wall casually with no real effect.
A chopped his own hand off.

Just to name a few

Why stand their and take a hit when you can avoid all damage with speed and skill?

Originally posted by socool8520
Jiraiya fought with his arm ripped off.
Tsunade tanked being stabbed in the chest on more than one occasion.
Zabuza early in the manga fought while being stabbed with numerous swords.
Hiruzen pulled off a techniques with a sword through his body. Orochimaru has been punched multiple times by Tsunade who crashed an outer village wall casually with no real effect.
A chopped his own hand off.

Just to name a few

Why stand their and take a hit when you can avoid all damage with speed and skill?

Those are all like normal weapons through them and half those people died from those wounds O.o

I don't think you understand the premise of Bleach from the beginning. Kenpachi explains it VERY well to Ichigo in his first fight. If your spiritual energy is stronger than the other guys, nothing they do can even touch you; literally. There are definetly attacks that will do things if you are equal or the enemy has more spiritual pressure forced into their attack to break through your reishi shield and those are avoided. Ichigo's Bankai is a perfect example of avoiding damage from an equal opponent in the Byakuya fight. But when his enemies attacks are too weak to do anything he just smacks em away with his hand.

In the Naruto Universe if ANYTHING lands there is a possibility of damage inflicted unless it is shielded or their physical prowess is countered with ones own durability or a ninjitsu.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Those are all like normal weapons through them and half those people died from those wounds O.o

The point is they fought for a while longer even though they were heavily injured just like in Bleach. And several of the people in Bleach would have died if not for the intervening of other characters so what's your point?

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
I don't think you understand the premise of Bleach from the beginning. Kenpachi explains it VERY well to Ichigo in his first fight. If your spiritual energy is stronger than the other guys, nothing they do can even touch you; literally. There are definetly attacks that will do things if you are equal or the enemy has more spiritual pressure forced into their attack to break through your reishi shield and those are avoided. Ichigo's Bankai is a perfect example of avoiding damage from an equal opponent in the Byakuya fight. But when his enemies attacks are too weak to do anything he just smacks em away with his hand.

Kenpachi was injured by an attack from Ichigo when they first fought and it excited him I guess, but it was still damage. He was just to arrogant and stupid to move. And then they basically just kept unloading more power on each other until they collapsed iirc. It's a horrible way of fighting imo.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
In the Naruto Universe if ANYTHING lands there is a possibility of damage inflicted unless it is shielded or their physical prowess is countered with ones own durability or a ninjitsu.

Wait.....Isn't this exactly what you just explained above?

Originally posted by socool8520
The point is they fought for a while longer even though they were heavily injured just like in Bleach. And several of the people in Bleach would have died if not for the intervening of other characters so what's your point?

Kenpachi was injured by an attack from Ichigo when they first fought and it excited him I guess, but it was still damage. He was just to arrogant and stupid to move. And then they basically just kept unloading more power on each other until they collapsed iirc. It's a horrible way of fighting imo.

Wait.....Isn't this exactly what you just explained above?

My point is that simple random small things seem to finish off Naruto characters who didn't dodge or shielded another person when compared to things that kill the Bleach characters which are often serious full on strike blows they were not able to avoid or too tired to shield against. I am just trying to say that durability wise the Naruto Universe is more frail in this kind of fight when we versus them.

It took Ichigo to understand that he had to sharpen his Reishi to cut Kenpachi through willpower. It was a fight of willpower and determination. Ichigo could not escape Kenpachi no matter how fast he moved because Kenpachi's soul was too overpowering to run.

Yeah it is. The characters who can shrug off attacks like that are specifically capable of shrugging off those attacks while the vast majority of the characters are incapable of doing that. Madara and the 1st are durable because the 1st can regenerate and Madara has a shield. Yamamoto cannot be touched with his own shield of willpower and fire. We have never seen him use Kido and a lot of that can be used to heal also but we just don't know anything about his ability to use it. We only see him fight and show over all durability to not be touched. Madara has died to normal weak weapons and the 1st has died young it seems also. (black hair when he is resurrected) Yamamoto died to some one as experienced as him utilizing the power of hundreds of people (every quincy who dies gives Jauhbach power) to cut him clear in half after a battle with a person using the ability to mimic the power of the Jauhbach. SO Yamamoto to clarify was killed by a dude as badass as him after having fought and defeating that bad ass.

When did Madara die to normal weapons? I'm not sure what you are talking about. When they fought at the valley of the end, they had basically unleashed a ridiculous amount of techs on each other. Enough to change landscapes. And both people survived.

Originally posted by socool8520
When did Madara die to normal weapons? I'm not sure what you are talking about. When they fought at the valley of the end, they had basically unleashed a ridiculous amount of techs on each other. Enough to change landscapes. And both people survived.

Madara "dies" to the 1st Hokage stabbing him in the back if we go by the anime with a shurken and in the manga sword after some sort of fight we don't really see. (They have a ridiculous number of separate battles) The first eventually dies at some point young, but we don't see that fight; its just implied.

He didn't die. have you read the interaction between madara and Obito? He lost sure and appeared dead kind of like every time Ichigo gets completely wrecked and is laying face first in the dirt. Madara was stabbed sure, after exhausting several techs that changed the landscape. This also happens in Bleach. Ichigo used all his strength and was defeated by a simple hand thrust from the no. 4 Espada for example.

To me it just seems like in Bleach these guys always have their shields (soul power) up when they know they are going into battle. They can be punctured just as easily when they don't.

Originally posted by socool8520
He didn't die. have you read the interaction between madara and Obito? He lost sure and appeared dead kind of like every time Ichigo gets completely wrecked and is laying face first in the dirt. Madara was stabbed sure, after exhausting several techs that changed the landscape. This also happens in Bleach. Ichigo used all his strength and was defeated by a simple hand thrust from the no. 4 Espada for example.

To me it just seems like in Bleach these guys always have their shields (soul power) up when they know they are going into battle. They can be punctured just as easily when they don't.

That's why die is in quotations 🙂

Ichigo's "death" was more of an execution rather than a fight ending. In Bleach the vast majority of deaths/loses are from overpowering attacks, not random weapons finally hitting mark in surprise.

They are always up because it is a part of them. I don't think very many of them have been brought down by any sort of weak attacks like a random weapon finally hitting. They are normally just overpowered finally with a finishing blow. Neji for example fell to some very random thing that normally would not pose a threat except that he for some reason decided to stand and take it rather than try to stop it.

What are you talking about. Ichigo got hand thrusted and pretty much "died". That's a normal attack. Rukia was impaled more than once iirc.

Nejii died to a chakra infused technique from Obito, easily one of the strongest characters in the manga making it no weak showing on his part. No strong character has died or taking much damage from any attack that wasn't chakra infused in a long time in the Naruto manga that I can remember.

His argument has merit though. Naruto characters often have low-end durability showings when it comes to weaponry. Hashirama attempted to kill himself with a kunai to his gut, Base Naruto got scratched by a kunai, Madara gets stabbed.

Of course, low-end & high-end feats and all that. Oonoki tanked two meteorites dropping on his face, Base Naruto's caught a sword in his palms, Tobi's blocked Suigetsu's attack with just his wrist, etc.

Yeah, it's true but Bleach characters have some of the same low end feats. I mean they take damage when punched in the face and things of that nature. If they didn't have their defenses up, they would be just as susceptible to damage imo. If characters can punch through each others body in Bleach, why would they not be able to do the same thing with a sword?

Originally posted by socool8520
What are you talking about. Ichigo got hand thrusted and pretty much "died". That's a normal attack. Rukia was impaled more than once iirc.

Nejii died to a chakra infused technique from Obito, easily one of the strongest characters in the manga making it no weak showing on his part. No strong character has died or taking much damage from any attack that wasn't chakra infused in a long time in the Naruto manga that I can remember.

Ulquiorra literally kills Ichigo twice. The both times so overpoweringly it was an execution.

Neiji dies to AoE It was an area effect attack, not even a direct shot, that killed him.

Originally posted by NemeBro
She can however shatter Madara's Susano'o with a single punch, which has town level durability. Meaning her fist contains the energy of a relatively weak nuke. 👆

Besides, her speed isn't even that impressive, neither does she have flight to keep up with Bleach characters

Originally posted by NemeBro
Pretty sure Gurren Lagann makes light look slow.

Well, yes, at the big scales. Gotta be if you throw galaxies ^^

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
She barely cracked it. That's something even a vice captain like Renji can do with his bankai.

Besides, her speed isn't even that impressive, neither does she have flight to keep up with Bleach characters

*sigh*

When will you learn?

Tsunade almost shattered it before he went fully perfect Susano'o. That, btw, was above a town level feat, considering Madara's partial Susano'o tanked two meteors. Renji can't perform a Kenny level meteor feat. Kenny can't perform a Madara level double meteor feat. It's that simple. Your logic is flawed.

Tsunade's speed is comparable to Raikage's. She was able to keep up with him. Who is faster than the fastest Bleach character that exists so far. Ichigo. Not to mention that full power Madara and Hashirma can throw around and react to/dodge attacks that cross oceans and travel to different continents in a single panel.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
*sigh*

When will you learn?

Tsunade almost shattered it before he went fully perfect Susano'o. That, btw, was above a town level feat, considering Madara's partial Susano'o tanked two meteors. Renji can't perform a Kenny level meteor feat. Kenny can't perform a Madara level double meteor feat. It's that simple. Your logic is flawed.

Tsunade's speed is comparable to Raikage's. She was able to keep up with him. Who is faster than the fastest Bleach character that exists so far. Ichigo. Not to mention that full power Madara and Hashirma can throw around and react to/dodge attacks that cross oceans and travel to different continents in a single panel.

I agree that Renji is not a strong character at all but after he went to the spirit palace we don't know what happened. RUkika and Renji claim to no longer be the same and they appear to have way more power than normal.

YOu can't really comapre speed I would say because Ichigo was literally blocking thousands of attacks from Bayakuya in his very early bankai and since most characters have shown in some cases to be just as fast. Naruto characters often have trouble bloakcing more than 3 things at a time. If they could move that fast why did it take them like 3 chapters to reach the front 😬 THey don't move that fast, they had to use a teleport to send raikage and tsunade.

you're a better man than me. I lost the will the argue this when the claim was made that Naruto characters are lightspeed. lulz, it took Naruto and Bee (two of the fastest characters in the series) a ridiculously long time to run a few thousand miles.

Yoruichi literally covers miles in one step. hilarious.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
*sigh*

When will you learn?

Tsunade almost shattered it before he went fully perfect Susano'o. That, btw, was above a town level feat, considering Madara's partial Susano'o tanked two meteors. Renji can't perform a Kenny level meteor feat. Kenny can't perform a Madara level double meteor feat. It's that simple. Your logic is flawed.

Tsunade's speed is comparable to Raikage's. She was able to keep up with him. Who is faster than the fastest Bleach character that exists so far. Ichigo. Not to mention that full power Madara and Hashirma can throw around and react to/dodge attacks that cross oceans and travel to different continents in a single panel.

Madara didnt tank any meteors if he wasnt edo at the time he wouldve died too