Originally posted by carver9
@YungzLet's use your way then (and my bad, it was times 4 when he used it against Vegeta, not 3). Vegeta is hit dead on with Goku's planet busting blast, this is what Yungz is asking for but here, the blast doesn't explode. Did Vegeta tank a planet busting attack Yungz?
no because vegeta took damage
Originally posted by carver9
Gohan would blow that same Vegeta up with a single hit who is more durable than a planet.
again how does that equate to gohan being able to blow up a planet with a punch.....
unless your trying to tell me that thier punches are equally as strong as their ki blasts which would make ki blasts irrelavent
ki blasts are not the same as physical strength
Guys, physical attacks=/=energy attacks. The amount of destruction a character can cause with an energy beam does NOT denote the amount of destruction that same character can cause with a physical punch.
Example: Roshi's Kamehameha can bust a moon. A physical punch from Roshi, however, most certainly cannot. 🙂
Originally posted by eaebiakuyaNo character in the history of DB has ever come remotely close to physically destroying a planet with a single punch. They're simply not that strong... Not by a long shot.
There is my question to Galan 😄
One example(of many) is when Perfect Cell bulked up and went full berserker rage on SSJ2 Gohan. Gohan dodged Cell's initial attack, leaving Cell to strike nothing but the earth with his ALL-OUT punch. What did said punch leave in its wake? A very small crater, is all:
http://i.imgur.com/wb8F4wx.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xEAdXph.gif
http://i.imgur.com/c2UdNwN.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xnn8H16.gif
Multiply the damage that punch caused by a million(even the difference between SSJ4 Goku and Cell was astronomically less than that), and you'd still only be talking about city-level destruction at the *most*. Frankly, planet-level destruction by purely physical means isn't even conceivable for DB characters.
Heck, it wasn't until SSJ2 Goku fought SSJ2 Majin Vegeta in the Buu saga that we saw nearby mountains/hills being devastated by the shockwaves generated by their punches(granted, it seemed to happen all the time in every saga of the anime, but that was almost always non-canon filler)... But even that is still infinitely less than planetary force. Heck, even an all-out punch from post-Buu saga SSJ3 Goku failed to destroy the entirety of King Kai's planet. Granted, he blew a hole completely through it, but that's not the same as completely destroying/busting/pulverizing it... And King Kai's world is insignificantly tiny when compared to a planet the size of earth. At the *most* punches from DB characters *might* be capable of busting very small moons/asteroids--but even that would require peak SSJ4-level power, imo.
Point: enduring punches from characters in the DBU=/=tanking planet-busting forces. 🙂
Originally posted by yungz22
again how does that equate to gohan being able to blow up a planet with a punch.....unless your trying to tell me that thier punches are equally as strong as their ki blasts which would make ki blasts irrelavent
ki blasts are not the same as physical strength
If someone can withstand the force of planetary attacks, it doesn't matter if it's a ki attack or not. If someone can tank a nuclear attack point blank, Spiderman should not be able to hurt them because the output is kinetic as well for the nuclear blast. There's no way to avoid this. If a character survived planetary attacks, then their durability is what? Planetary.
If Gohan can destroy something that is as durable as a planet, that speaks volumes. Example of this is Cell living from a planetary explosion but Gohan punch hitting him in the chest causing more damage than anything he's withstood.
Originally posted by Galan007
Guys, physical attacks=/=energy attacks. The amount of destruction a character can cause with an energy beam does NOT denote the amount of destruction that same character can cause with a physical punch.Example: Roshi's Kamehameha can bust a moon. A physical punch from Roshi, however, most certainly cannot. 🙂
No character in the history of DB has ever come remotely close to physically destroying a planet with a single punch. They're simply not that strong... Not by a long shot.
One example(of many) is when Perfect Cell bulked up and went full berserker rage on SSJ2 Gohan. Gohan dodged Cell's initial attack, leaving Cell to strike nothing but the earth with his ALL-OUT punch. What did said punch leave in its wake? A very small crater, is all:
http://i.imgur.com/wb8F4wx.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xEAdXph.gif
http://i.imgur.com/c2UdNwN.gif
http://i.imgur.com/xnn8H16.gifMultiply the damage that punch caused by a million(even the difference between SSJ4 Goku and Cell was astronomically less than that), and you'd still only be talking about city-level destruction at the *most*. Frankly, planet-level destruction by purely physical means isn't even conceivable for DB characters.
Heck, it wasn't until SSJ2 Goku fought SSJ2 Majin Vegeta in the Buu saga that we saw nearby mountains/hills being devastated by the shockwaves generated by their punches(granted, it seemed to happen all the time in every saga of the anime, but that was almost always non-canon filler)... But even that is still infinitely less than planetary force. Heck, even an all-out punch from post-Buu saga SSJ3 Goku failed to destroy the entirety of King Kai's planet. Granted, he blew a hole completely through it, but that's not the same as completely destroying/busting/pulverizing it... And King Kai's world is insignificantly tiny when compared to a planet the size of earth. At the *most* punches from DB characters *might* be capable of busting very small moons/asteroids--but even that would require peak SSJ4-level power, imo.
Point: enduring punches from characters in the DBU=/=tanking planet-busting forces. 🙂
Thank you for the explanation !
This cover 99% of series, but how could a Cell Jr. be able to withstand a planet explosion, but was unable to survive to Gohan SSJ2 punch ?
His durability against phisical punches is weaker ?
Or he is just not very durable, even having more KI than Freeza ?
Putting in anothers words: while they don't have planetbusting strength, they are obviously able to hurt people who have planet level durability.
How we use this against chars from other universes ?
Originally posted by eaebiakuyaIn the manga, no energy attacks were used against the Cell Juniors, nor did they used any energy attacks against the Z Fighters. Any anime scenes to the contrary are non-canon filler.
Thank you for the explanation !This cover 99% of series, but how could a Cell Jr. be able to withstand a planet explosion, but was unable to survive to Gohan SSJ2 punch ?
His durability against phisical punches is weaker ?
Or he is just not very durable, even having more KI than Freeza ?
Putting in anothers words: while they don't have planetbusting strength, they are obviously able to hurt people who have planet level durability.
How we use this against chars from other universes ?
As for your other question: punches simply affect characters differently than energy attacks. This doesn't just hold true in DB, mind you--case in point: Superboy Prime. The kid can tank universe-busting energies at ground zero, but physical punches from Connor(to name one) can bloody him up... And it goes without saying that Connor's punches do not each pack universe-busting force behind them. 😉
Originally posted by Galan007
What's the question?
OK. I often here people argue that, while DBZ's energy projection is great, their physical strength is far below it, but IIRC, the former is directly dependent on the latter. I'm not really sure, either way. What can truly be said in regards to that?
Originally posted by Galan007
In the manga, no energy attacks were used against the Cell Juniors, nor did they used any energy attacks against the Z Fighters. Any anime scenes to the contrary are non-canon filler.As for your other question: punches simply affect characters differently than energy attacks. This doesn't just hold true in DB, mind you--case in point: Superboy Prime. The kid can tank universe-busting energies at ground zero, but physical punches from Connor(to name one) can bloody him up... And it goes without saying that Connor's punches do not each pack universe-busting force behind them. 😉
Take it a step further:
How could Superman survive two planets crashing into him, or the force of a black hole, but still be bloodied up by Captain Marvel?
How could Captain Marvel survive being turned inside out, but be beaten down by Black Adam?
The only real media that correctly wrote what should happen in a fight, is the old Captain Marvel stories, where Cap and Adam could beat on each other all day and not do any damage. The entire Marvel family ganging up on Adam ended up being a waste of time.
But that makes for fights about as exciting as a regular guy pushing on building, which is why they take extreme liberties with power levels that don't really hold up under scrutiny.
And so board debates have all kinds of strict "feat evidence" based requirements that work off either overall averages or "average high end" showings, and often become convoluted, hotly contested messes even when all evidence is on the table..
