Originally posted by psmith81992
I didn't say the line didn't exist I was asking for it.
I didn't say you said the line didn't exist; I simply provided it for you.
Originally posted by psmith81992
But the premise doesn't follow the conclusion or have anything to do with it really, which was the point.
Actually, S66's argument is fairly reasonable if not totally conclusive: we know that in Legends and canon, the Force doesn't shift out of balance until around the prequel trilogy. That the Sith order existed (in secret) prior to that without throwing the Force off kilter suggests that not just any Tom, Sith, and Harry can affect it so powerfully.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Fairly reasonable to assume someone's power is unmatched because Anakin brought balance to the force, which remind me, consisted of Yoda, Luke and...?
I believe his argument is that because Palpatine's death balanced the Force and affected it in a way that quite honestly no other Sith Lord has, Palpatine must have been extraordinarily powerful even among powerful Sith Lords.
And Yoda and Luke had nothing to do with the balance on a metaphysical level. It's not a numbers game.
No, that isn't his argument because it would be a redundant argument. We know Palpatine is extraordinarily powerful. He said his power was "unmatched" because he brought balance to the force.. That isn't a valid argument.. You know this..
And I'm really not familiar with the balance to the force issue because it lacks consistency. Has it ever been out of balance? Or was the concept introduced solely for the PT era?
Palpatine spent a great amount of time augmenting his already massive Force sensitivity. I wonder how many people have lifetimes to do these things. The accumulation of thousands of years of teachings, combined with Palpatine's decades of experience and research on his own. I don't imagine many people would be able to.
Originally posted by psmith81992
No, that isn't his argument because it would be a redundant argument. We know Palpatine is extraordinarily powerful. He said his power was "unmatched" because he brought balance to the force.. That isn't a valid argument.. You know this..
Palpatine didn't bring balance to the Force, Anakin did. S66 is arguing that because Palpatine's death brought balance to the Force and not, say, Bane's or any other Sith Lord, Palpatine must have been stronger in the dark side than all of them. That's not conclusive, but it's not unreasonable either.
Originally posted by psmith81992
And I'm really not familiar with the balance to the force issue because it lacks consistency. Has it ever been out of balance? Or was the concept introduced solely for the PT era?
Solely for the PT era for Legends and canon.
Palpatine didn't bring balance to the Force, Anakin did. S66 is arguing that because Palpatine's death brought balance to the Force and not, say, Bane's or any other Sith Lord, Palpatine must have been stronger in the dark side than all of them. That's not conclusive, but it's not unreasonable either.
And again, it's hard for me to reconcile the "Balance of the force" issue when it doesn't exist outside the PT.
Originally posted by psmith81992
(a balance that contained Luke, since Yoda was dead).
Lmao @ this.
As for the rest, Palpatine's death diffusing the dark side throughout the galaxy and bringing balance to the force supported my conclusion: that he was the most powerful sith due to his unity/unique connection to the dark side, which was greater than any sith before or after him. The fact that his death brought balance, suggesting the great effect he had on the force supports the notion perfectly. You're a dumbass. Lmao.
And, yes, what Tempest said. For Palpatine's death to affect the force in such a way, would indeed suggest the level of control he had over the dark side. He was it's main source at the time.
Originally posted by psmith81992
But...Then it would be reasonable to assume Bane is up there with Palpatine because he's the sith'ari, using the same reaching logic.
How so?
Originally posted by psmith81992
And again, it's hard for me to reconcile the "Balance of the force" issue when it doesn't exist outside the PT.
That's just it, I think. S66 is arguing that it doesn't exist outside of the films because without Palpatine in play, the Force's balance isn't threatened.
How so?
How is that different than me saying because of circumstance Y (Bane is the sith'ari), Bane is unmatched. Same logic applies, both are invalid.
That's just it, I think. S66 is arguing that it doesn't exist outside of the films because without Palpatine in play, the Force's balance isn't threatened.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Because of circumstance X (balance of the force), Sidious is "unmatched".How is that different than me saying because of circumstance Y (Bane is the sith'ari), Bane is unmatched. Same logic applies, both are invalid.
?
Only if we take the prophecy of the Sith'ari as absolutely literal, which begs the question how the Sith'ari, a creature of "perfect strength" would ever be defeated and die?
To compare the Sith'ari to Palpatine's cosmological status is to compare apples to oranges. Palpatine's death literally brought the galaxy's supernatural omnipresent energy field back into balance.
Originally posted by psmith81992
But that's a baseless assertion that warrants proof.
That Palpatine's death balances the Force is proof enough.
That Palpatine's death balances the Force is proof enough.
?Only if we take the prophecy of the Sith'ari as absolutely literal, which begs the question how the Sith'ari, a creature of "perfect strength" would ever be defeated and die?
To compare the Sith'ari to Palpatine's cosmological status is to compare apples to oranges. Palpatine's death literally brought the galaxy's supernatural omnipresent energy field back into balance.
Originally posted by psmith81992
No, that's reaching.
...How?
Originally posted by psmith81992
Where does it say that the perfect being cannot die though?
Given that perfection requires the total absence of weakness, frailty, or failure, I'm pretty sure by definition Bane should have never died or been defeated.
How does this relate to the Ones, who were literally the balance of the force? [/B]
No, the Ones were physical manifestations of the Force on Mortis. "Balance" was represented by The Father. But again, all that was relevant only to Mortis.
"Tenebrous' Twi'lek Master had opened a small rend in the fabric of the Force, allowing the dark side to be felt by the Jedi Order for the first time in more than eight hundred years. "
"The question of whether he and Sidious had discovered something new or rediscovered something ancient was beside the point. All that mattered was that, almost a decade earlier, they had succeeded in willing the Force to shift and tip irrevocably to the dark side. Not a mere paradigm shift, but a tangible alteration that could be felt by anyone strong in the Force, and whether or not trained in the Sith or Jedi arts.
The shift had been the outcome of months of intense meditation, during which Plagueis and Sidious had sought to challenge the Force for sovereignty and suffuse the galaxy with the power of the dark side. Brazen and shameless, and at their own mortal peril, they had waged etheric war, anticipating that their own midi-chlorians, the Force’s proxy army, might marshal to boil their blood or stop the beating of their hearts. Risen out of themselves, discorporate and as a single entity, they had brought the power of their will to bear, asserting their sovereignty over the Force. No counterforce had risen against them. In what amounted to a state of rapture they knew that the Force had yielded, as if some deity had been tipped from its throne. On the fulcrum they had fashioned, the light side had dipped and the dark side had ascended."-Star Wars: Darth Plagueis
Seems pretty clear to me.
...How?
That Palpatine's death balances the Force is proof enough.
Given that perfection requires the total absence of weakness, frailty, or failure, I'm pretty sure by definition Bane should have never died or been defeated.
No, the Ones were physical manifestations of the Force on Mortis. "Balance" was represented by The Father. But again, all that was relevant only to Mortis.