Originally posted by WildBantha88
You made one fatal mistake, and that was to dare indulge my superior intellect. MwahahahhahahaActually being able to be impaled, shot in the head at point blank range, be mauled by a pack of wild animals, tank grenade explosions, ect and keep on fighting is a huge factor. On the one side you have a character that can take pain sure but if you hit him on the head with a metal beam he will be knocked out, on the other side you have a character who can take the same amount of pain but if you hit him on the head with a metal beam he will give you a dull look right before killing you (metaphor) Physical endurance matters a lot. And Vader can push through a hell of a lot of damage, where as Maul would be dead before he tanked half of what Vader can.
How Maul cant compete in the Force? well lets see. He is only the 4th person to choke out Kenobi. Dooku, Savage, and Ventress all need to be awarded that same medal. Mauls force scream ability is very impressive but (having never seen the material that contains this feat I may be wrong) I feel like it was most likely in a moment of extreme emotional rage or hatred or something along that line, seeing as how he has , as far as I know, never used the force scream ability again. And if we are counting moments like this then boy are you in for a treat because Vader goes HAM every time he thinks about padme.
Next pulling the shuttle off the cliff is an Okay feat, but it isn't nearly as impressive as it is made out to be. I bet you have heard the argument before that Maul did it out of desperation but I am par for the course on that one. He and his brother were injured and he was desperate. But then lets look at the feat itself, All that Maul actually did was move the shuttle a few feet, he didn't pick it up or throw it, or move it very fast even (all things that would have impressed me.) as you can see, the landing gear was bending because it was grinding along the ground and Maul only pushed it so that half of it was over the cliff and then let gravity do the work.
Also I am not one to be impressed by collapsing caves, they are made of rock, sure, but lets be honest, caves aren't the most stable structures around, they are subject to cave in by themselves without anyone doing anything and even loud noises can sometime cause a cave in. Moving a few stones has a high chance of causing a cave in. I mean C'mon
Blowing away dozens of people on TWO occasions? I am curious about the second, but I know on one of those occasions Maul did it as a joined effort with his brother. You cant really give that feat to either of them because you don't know how much was maul and how much was oppress. But I would like to see the other occasion. Any who Vader has done the exact same thing, by himself, no assistance. So feats kind of cancel each other out.
Now let me make some points as to why Maul is a lot inferior to Vader in the Force. (I think im just going to make one point for now and debate a few others later)
Vader has more Force powers at his disposal. Maul is lacking in both tutminus and saber throws and the powers that Maul does have, Vader can do better. Offensive telepathy? Maul can probe minds and use the basic mind trick, where as Vader can telepathically torture a victim of this said it felt like holes were punched in his brain that drained out all conscious thought.
1. I'm guessing you agree with what I said about strength, since you failed to address that part of my rebuttal.
2. A metal f*cking pole isn't going to knock Maul out. If you want his durability feats look up his respect threads, that's all I'm giving you. Educate yourself on Maul's abilities. I'm all for comparing feats and what not but some of what you're coming out with is pretty abhorrent (no offence, this is just from a debating standpoint).
3. Savage has never choked or ragdolled Kenobi in the Force. He Force pushed him whilst highly enraged, beyond any level of range he's ever exhibited. The same goes with Ventress and her choking of Kenobi and Anakin, although her instance is an inconsistency more than anything, because she has no business Force choking EU Anakin.
4. Here is the Force Scream quote, and again note that Maul was 15 years old at this point in time, and was steadily increasing in power, and then received a monumental power surge twelve years after TPM.
Its circuitous innards exposed, the combat vibroblade rested on a low table, alongside a small tool kit. Electrodriver in hand, Maul was working feverishly on the knife’s ultrasonic vibration generator, intent on overriding the built-in arrestor to supply the blade with greater slashing power. If he wasn’t permitted to use the Force, then he would use everything short of it to satisfy the rage inside him; to gut every living thing he encountered during the coming Gora solo. Bathe in the blood he would shed, feast on warm flesh… Merely imagining it set his fingers trembling, and abruptly the tool slipped from its tenuous hold in the socket and stabbed deeply into the palm of his opposite hand, opening a small wound and bursting the dam of his pent-up emotion. Maul’s clenched right hand slammed down on the table, shattering its surface, and the vibroblade took flight, nearly impaling itself in his head. Straightening, he bared his filed teeth and tensed his body, close to loosing a scream that would have brought the barracks down around him.Source -- Restraint
5. I don't get what you're trying to insinuate with the shuttle feat. I'm telling you exactly what's on the tin. Maul pulled a pretty massive shuttle off of a cliff while he was injured. There was no indication that he was amped at the time or even really strained, only that he was desperate because he was being shot at.
6. Dude, I'm not talking about Maul "caving in" a cave, he caved in a tunnel. The tunnel's integrity was completely solid, it wasn't some mine, it was an underground military complex. Take a look for yourself at the scale of what Maul brought down:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3759312-maul+collapses+massive+tunnel+tk.png
7. The second occasion was when Maul leaped into the middle of the CIS' frontline forces and blew away all the droids around him, in SoD.
8. Tutaminis is irrelevant to this fight because nobody has Lightning or a blaster. Maul is certainly not lacking in his ability to utilise saber throw - it's one of his favourite moves.
He killed Ko Solok with it during their duel, used it to shut a door and destroy a huge droid on Lotho Minor. He threw a spear over hundreds of feet like a missile, impaling a clone that was standing next to Obi-Wan Kenobi. During TPM he used it to take out a speeder engine IIRC. Just look at his respect threads, there are plenty of examples of him using it. Not that it even matters because I doubt either Vader or Maul would throw their only means on winning the fight away...
You also obviously know little about Maul's telepathy, which is a shame, and you also seem to think telepathy would even matter here. But just for reference, Maul used combative telepathy against Obi-Wan during TPM, specifically Cloud Mind, which ****ed with his mind and left him open to counter-attack. He convinced a soldier to suicide bomb dozens of his fellow soldiers against his will. His mental resistance was sufficient to kill an Ikotchi telepath after merely probing Maul's mind, even causing blood to spurt from his mouth. Maul has nonchalantly caused people to lose interest in him against their will. You're wrong that Vader outclasses Maul as a telepath and that this even matters in terms of combat. You're also wrong in thinking that Vader's Force knowledge outclasses Maul's, seeing as Maul has plenty of esoteric powers Vader to my knowledge hasn't used, i.e gravity manipulation, using the Force as a lie detector, Cloud Mind, Force Cloaking, Mechu-Deru ect. Not all are applicable to combat but that's because of Maul's eariler roles in espionage.
So all in all my point still stands. Vader isn't dominating Maul through telekinesis, and he isn't killing him that way either. His main way of defeating Maul would be through Sabers, which I reluctantly give to Vader slightly because it makes life easier not to argue about it on a site where Maul is already lowballed to the high heavens.
