Originally posted by Selenial
That Thundering Blast doesn't look like conventional lightning, more like a weird TK/lightning conbo. Either way it's weird.Oh and he conjured it "casually" against weakened Jedi who had fought an entire station, and after a large amount of prep time given HoT and Scourge fought to a standstill.
Also, where is evidence of prep? Don't make stuff up.
The Emperor is more than a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side.
From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopeda)
Originally posted by Selenial
I won't call Nexus, but Nyriss' example is a special case in terms of her incineration through a barrier. She was doing exactly what Xedrix did in that she built up all her power into one attack, she was in a force rage etc. While incineration is swell and all, I don't think her barrier would have done anything given how little energy she would have had left, which really makes the fact it killed her less impressive. As for Vitiate's. Yes, Nexus, but I won't bother going into that since you ignore Nexus' (So you can wank him harder).Sidious in turn:
Turned a Sithspawn to ashes with Lightning
Turned 3 Prophets of the Dark Side to mere bones,
Fatally wounds a droid body that can exist on the hottest world in the galaxy,
Lightning overpowered even Yoda,
Created Lightning storms that ravaged Coruscant,I could go on.
Speaking of Coruscant, Sidious wiped the minds of over a trillion people in an instance. I respect Vitiates feats in the area, but Surik and Scourge had absolutely no trouble resisting him, which suggests his best feats take time. Like the children, the Voicd, the hand, and others.
As for Emperor's lightning, it is hot enough to superheat metal and melt bodies of even powerful Force-users. It is stated to be infinitely more intensive then that of Nyriss's lightning which would have incinerated both Scourge and Exile. Revan managed to deflect Nyriss' lightning but he failed to do so against Emperor's and would have melted if T3-M4 had not interfered and saved him. Keep in mind that the entire confrontation between Revan and Emperor lasted few seconds, they were so fast in their actions. So just imagine what Emperor can do with his lightning in a prolonged duration.
In addition, Emperor created lightning storms that ravaged Dromund Kaas on consistent basis with his sorcery.
Now you may claim that Emperor's lightning did not incinerate the Jedi Strike Team but it is important to pay attention to the context as well: Emperor decided to not kill these Jedi, he decided to use them as his puppets. In-fact, Emperor tasked these Jedi to do his bidding and tasked Tol Braga in particular to fuel his super-ritual. The Encyclopedia also reveals that Emperor went easy on the Strike Team.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I want to disregard that? No.Disney may do it though.
You keep saying this as if Disney has declared DE Non-Canon but all TOR era stuff Canon.
It's all ignored by the new Official Canon dude. It's ALL classified as LEGENDS.
The Only Official EU under Disney right now is Animation: TCW, Rebels, Novels: A New Dawn, Tarkin Comics: Son of Dathomir and anything new that comes in any medium (not under the Legends Banner).
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You keep saying this as if Disney has declared DE Non-Canon but all TOR era stuff Canon.It's all ignored by the new Official Canon dude. It's ALL classified as LEGENDS.
The Only Official EU under Disney right now is Animation: TCW, Rebels, Novels: A New Dawn, Tarkin Comics: Son of Dathomir and anything new that comes in any medium (not under the Legends Banner).
Originally posted by psmith81992
His drain is unknown. You said he did it for a number of years, performing random experiments. That doesn't tell us much. Also, there is no mention of his drain shortening anyone's lifespan, so I'm not sure it's a drain in the conventional sense.
That, I think, is the point: Sidious used Byss's population to create and sustain an energy pool for his dark side experiments. A slow, measured drain from a vast but constantly-replenishing source would be pretty economical.
Originally posted by psmith81992
At any rate, I find a 10 day ritual, millions upon millions of death, and immortality, all to be slightly more impressive than whatever it is Sidious accomplished with his drain.
Fair enough.
I personally find the singlehanded telepathic enslavement and measured draining of a much substantially larger population to be more impressive.
Originally posted by Nephthys
As for telepathy, well he's stated to be the greatest telepath up to that point in time, apparently making the Dread Masters look like amateur's in comparison. It's his greatest strength and practically unblockable without proper knowledge of it. And I mean, who even rivals him?
The aforementioned Dread Masters, UnuThul, and Palpatine all have feats to rival his.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Plus people have admitted to underrating Vitiate just to piss me and Legend off so those results probably aren't accurate.
These things are not mutually exclusive.
S_W_LeGenD
Sidious did not mentally enslave them.
Byss and the Deep Core
Slowly but steadily, he used his dark Force powers to enslave the people on the world and drain their life energies to fuel his own vile experiments.
Byss and the Deep Core
Almost mindless under the oppression of the Emperor's dark side influence, the people of Byss find their life energies constantly leeched off during the Emperor's evil machinations.
That, I think, is the point: Sidious used Byss's population to create and sustain an energy pool for his dark side experiments. A slow, measured drain from a vast but constantly-replenishing source would be pretty economical.
I personally find the singlehanded telepathic enslavement and measured draining of a much substantially larger population to be more impressive.
Originally posted by psmith81992
It's not as impressive because we don't know what it did. We don't know what dark side experiments were performed. We have no proof that any inhabitants had a shorter lifespan as a result of the drain.
We don't have to know what he did with the energy to be impressed with how he got it and on what scale, Beefy.
Originally posted by psmith81992
I mean, if you want to use the "aid" argument, Vitiate performed his own dark side experiments in the Dark Temple without the "aid" of a population of 20 billion.
To borrow your line, that's not comparable at all. The 8,000 Sith Lords were participants in Vitiate's ritual, not strictly fodder like the population of Byss.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Not if it involved years/decades and not if those inhabitants experienced the same lifespan.
Perhaps to you. But to me, what Sidious did was much more impressive. He mentally enslaved and drained a population vastly larger than the one Vitiate dealt with on Nathema and didn't have 8,000 Sith Lords aiding him in his efforts.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ok, thanks for elaboration.I think that "room for exploration of abilities" would be better statement.
Cannot say much in this regard but:
The Emperor is more than a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side.
From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)
He was a living embodiment of the dark side of the Force who delighted in destroying the minds and spirits of those Jedi who came too close to him.
From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)
Emperor Vitiate have the best combat feats actually.
Emperor smoked 3 Strike Teams of powerful Force-users. One on a space station.
Firstly, Vitiate having the best feats made me giggle, so thanks for that I guess.
Secondly:
"the Emperor had become the Dark Side's most powerful expression."
"And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness."
"the Emperor is no longer defined by his physical form, but has become a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine"
"Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure."
One does not simply out hype Sidious.
We don't have to know what he did with the energy to be impressed with how he got it and on what scale, Beefy.
To borrow your line, that's not comparable at all. The 8,000 Sith Lords were participants in Vitiate's ritual, not strictly fodder like the population of Byss.
Perhaps to you. But to me, what Sidious did was much more impressive. He mentally enslaved and drained a population vastly larger than the one Vitiate dealt with on Nathema and didn't have 8,000 Sith Lords aiding him in his efforts.
Vitiate either mind raped 8,000 sith lords (unparalleled), or somehow convinced 8,000 sith lords (also impressive) to aid him in the ritual. It's impressive either way, given the effect of the drain and the timeframe.
Originally posted by Selenial
Firstly, Vitiate having the best feats made me giggle, so thanks for that I guess.Secondly:
"the Emperor had become the Dark Side's most powerful expression.""And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness."
"the Emperor is no longer defined by his physical form, but has become a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine"
"Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure."
One does not simply out hype Sidious.
One does not out hype Sidious based on those quotes? You'll have to use better ones if that's your argument. I can use just one that says Vitiate was a godlike avatar of the dark side. And your last quote has been dismissed as hyperbole for years.
Originally posted by psmith81992
We're not talking about impressed. You call it more impressive than what Vitiate did. I agree that we should be impressed with the feat, but to compare to another feat requires context.
You're coming at this from an entirely different angle than the rest of us.
You're more impressed with what Vitiate accomplished with his feat than with what Sidious accomplished with his. That's perfectly reasonable and something no one here has contested.
Myself and others are more impressed with Sidious's feat because of its scale and the fact that he achieved it unaided.
Originally posted by psmith81992
What's your point? 8,000 sith lords, or 20 billion regulars (although we don't know if any of those were force users). It still doesn't ignore the fact that Vitiate performed his experiments without any aid, causing force storms and whatever else to Dromund Kaas.
My point is that Byss's population was fodder. That's it. They weren't actively participating or aiding Sidious in his ritual anymore than a lab rat participates or aids a scientist in a conventional experiment.
In contrast, the assembled Sith Lords on Nathema were participants {that's why Vitiate summoned them there to begin with} and then fodder.
Sidious performed his experiments too without aid, so I'm not sure why you're even bringing it up.
Originally posted by psmith81992
You keep saying drained but the byss inhabitants didn't seem to suffer longevity.
According to whom?
Originally posted by psmith81992
Vitiate either mind raped 8,000 sith lords (unparalleled), or somehow convinced 8,000 sith lords (also impressive) to aid him in the ritual. It's impressive either way, given the effect of the drain and the timeframe.
No one denied that Vitiate's ritual was impressive. But myself and others find planetary Force manipulations to be more impressive when they are the product of a single Force user, as is the case with Sidious and Byss.
Originally posted by psmith81992
One does not out hype Sidious based on those quotes? You'll have to use better ones if that's your argument. I can use just one that says Vitiate was a godlike avatar of the dark side. And your last quote has been dismissed as hyperbole for years.
😐
Do you have LeGenD on ignore or are you skipping his posts on purpose? Those quotes are easily on par with anything attributable to Vitiate which was what Selennial's point to LeGenD was. {Again, LeGenD, not Selennial, started this.}
And no, the last quote has not been dismissed as hyperbole. What has been dismissed as hyperbole is the notion that Sidious knows everything and can do anything, which is not what the quote says.
You're coming at this from an entirely different angle than the rest of us.You're more impressed with what Vitiate accomplished with his feat than with what Sidious accomplished with his. That's perfectly reasonable and something no one here has contested.
Myself and others are more impressed with Sidious's feat because of its scale and the fact that he achieved it unaided.
My point is that Byss's population was fodder. That's it. They weren't actively participating or aiding Sidious in his ritual anymore than a lab rat participates or aids a scientist in a conventional experiment.In contrast, the assembled Sith Lords on Nathema were participants {that's why Vitiate summoned them there to begin with} and then fodder.
Sidious performed his experiments too without aid, so I'm not sure why you're even bringing it up.
According to whom?
No one denied that Vitiate's ritual was impressive. But myself and others find planetary Force manipulations to be more impressive when they are the product of a single Force user, as is the case with Sidious and Byss.
Do you have LeGenD on ignore or are you skipping his posts on purpose? Those quotes are easily on par with anything attributable to Vitiate which was what Selennial's point to LeGenD was. {Again, LeGenD, not Selennial, started this.}And no, the last quote has not been dismissed as hyperbole. What has been dismissed as hyperbole is the notion that Sidious knows everything and can do anything, which is not what the quote says.
Originally posted by Selenial
Firstly, Vitiate having the best feats made me giggle, so thanks for that I guess.
Both have awesome feats holistically.
Originally posted by Selenial
Secondly:
"the Emperor had become the Dark Side's most powerful expression.""And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness."
"the Emperor is no longer defined by his physical form, but has become a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine"
"Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure."
One does not simply out hype Sidious.
Well, both have excellent hype.
Originally posted by Nephthys
People routinely suggest that people like Sidious, Yoda, Caedus, Plagueis and even Talzin can stomp him. He's underrated by many. I don't know how you think I should establish that without extensively quoting past posts.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Which is certainly fair. But then we're not arguing the same things anymore.
We apparently never were. The question is, then, why you so aggressively oppose these remarks when no one ever contested your opinion.
Originally posted by psmith81992
1. It becomes irrelevant when you compare 10 days to years/decades
Or twenty billion to a few million?
Originally posted by psmith81992
2. Using 20 billion inhabitants constitutes as aid.
Like when you tell your wife you'll cook her dinner tonight, what you really mean to say is that you and the power company and the farmers who provided the food and the retailers who distributed it and all the various individuals and agents involved are going to cook your wife dinner?
They only count as aid if you want to be petty with semantics. Now that's acceptable, since I'm the undisputed master of that game, but that's always something you've historically disliked. And you should know that it will inevitably poison our honest conversation since I'll be compelled to respond in kind with Vitiate.
And it still won't win Vitiate the argument on aid.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Vitiate used none to perform his experiments.
Are you sure?
Originally posted by psmith81992
Does it state anywhere that it did?
All that's said is that the life energies of Byss's citizens were "constantly leeched off."
Originally posted by psmith81992
Some of you do, others think Vitiate's was more impressive.
That's why I said "others" and not "all others", though there is no question as to which Sith Lord is favored more here.
We apparently never were. The question is, then, why you so aggressively oppose these remarks when no one ever contested your opinion.
Or twenty billion to a few million?
Are you sure?
All that's said is that the life energies of Byss's citizens were "constantly leeched off."
@The_Tempest
OP is possibly referring to following experiments or sorcery:-
Creation of a powerful nexus of the dark side:
Burial place, prison, and reliquary, the Dark Temple was built on the orders of the Emperor to seal away powerful artifacts and the Emperor's enemies, both alive and dead. The temple became a nexus of dark side energy as the Emperor performed rituals within, drawing strength and knowledge from his captives.
Corrupting the atmosphere of Dromund Kaas:
Power hungry, the Emperor spent great energy discovering and perfecting esoteric rites of darkness – rituals that wrecked the atmosphere of Dromund Kaas, transforming the ionosphere into a swirling electric storm.
Possessing hosts:
The Emperor created his first Voice after the legendary Jedi named Revan attempted to assassinate him on Dromund Kaas. Though Revan's plot failed, he approached within striking distance of the Emperor. To guard against further vulnerability, the Emperor created the Voice to deliver his orders while distancing himself from the forces that conspired against him. Centuries later, this very safeguard would save the Emperor once more.
Transforming individuals into unwitting pwns:
By drawing on his incredible dark powers, the Emperor imprinted his consciousness onto unwitting pawns who would serve as vessels for carrying out his will. Through the eyes and ears of these "children," he would uncover threats in both the Empire and Republic while they were still nothing but whispers. And should the need arise, the Emperor could seize control of his children and instruct them to crush any plot that dared defy his will.
Quotes taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia.
All of the aforementioned experiments are Emperor's exclusive.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Because you said one was more impressive than the other.
And as we discussed, the way in which you find the feat more impressive {Vitiate achieving physical immortality, Sidious performing unknown experiments, i.e. the outcome} was never contested.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Few million in 10 days to 20 billion in years/decades?
Few million in 10 days with the aid of 8,000 Sith Lords versus 20 billion in years/decades with the aid of none?
I'm still confident in my assessment.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Pretty sure
Not if we adopt the rather conservative definition of aid you ascribe to my arguments.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Not very definitive.
I saw your original response here. I have more quotes if you object to the word "leech."