Originally posted by SunRazer
lol That's not what I accused you of. However, TK and Drain are completely different powers, hence your comparisons of Choke and Drain are irrelevant.
You didn't understand my intended point then. I will give it a try again.
My argument is that just because Vitiate didn't choke an opponent in a documented confrontation, doesn't means that he cannot do so. Similarly, just because Vitiate haven't attacked an opponent with his Force Drain powers in a documented confrontation, doesn't means he cannot do so. No rocket science here.
A Force-user, who is arguably the greatest master of the dark side, cannot perform choke or drain his opponents in a confrontation? Makes no sense, IMO.
The word confrontation itself is meaningless, ability (strength) and talent (skill) to perform an action, are the real determinants of the ability to perform an action.
Originally posted by SunRazer
It's just backstory - that they revived and used it. To have used it, though, they would have to have been immune to its effect, since it harvests anything in its vicinity.
But they were not
immune:
"I can teach to harness the power of the Force around you, making you immune to the Dark Reaper's effect, for a short time. But this knowledge comes with a risk." (Ulic Qel-Droma to Anakin Skywalker)
It would be better if you pay proper attention to the information that I cite. This would spare us both time and energy in a debate to reach an understanding on the topic.
Originally posted by SunRazer
A limited time is more than sufficient, considering Vitiate never uses Drain in combat, and if he did, he would only use it once - should it fail, I highly doubt he would repeat that same power.
You shouldn't assert with absolute certainty that Vitiate never uses Force Drain powers in confrontations, because Vitiate have history of extensively using Force Drain powers to fuel his strength and satiate his hunger. You are doubting Vitiate's ability to use Force Drain powers in confrontations and this makes no sense.
As I pointed out to you several times in this debate, Vitiate subjected Revan to his Force Drain powers from lightyears distance, a feat which demonstrates that Vitiate have phenomenal command of Force Drain powers. Now you may boast that Revan was vulnerable in his imprisonment but do not forget that Surik's ghost supported him in this situation and Revan was able to draw strength from this ghost to endure Vitiate's torturous attempts. Do you really think that anybody can last 300 years in torturous conditions without external help? Nobody can.
Originally posted by SunRazer
lol Your analogy doesn't work because Drain is a complicated power which is actually difficult to utilize, whereas hurling a rock is something that everybody and their grandmother could do.
Here is a hint: STRENGTH
Vitiate is stronger then Sith Lords who have actively used Force Drain powers in confrontations such as Darth Traya, Darth Nihilus, and Lord Draahg.
Originally posted by SunRazer
lol We can infer how often he would use it based on his track record. In other words, he won't, or extremely rarely, in which case Ulic's technique would counter it.
Vitiate have defeated different opponents using different abilities. Yes, Vitiate have commonly considered telepathic powers and Force Lightning as offensive options in confrontations but this doesn't means he cannot utilize other options in confrontations. Versus topics are not restrained by story elements.
As for Ulic's defenses, he might be able to reduce the effectiveness of Force Drain powers in a confrontation if subjected to it but he is still not strong enough to win in this confrontation. As I stated earlier, Vitiate have large number of options to consider in a confrontation, based on the revelation that he have explored the most sinister and uncharted depths of the dark side and he is likely to have knowledge and command of techniques that Ulic and Exar may never have heard of.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Not necessarily, and there's numerous aspects to each character. For instance, Sadow's Force knowledge outstrips Revan's, as does his use of Sorcery and Alchemy, but Revan is more battle-tested and has techniques like Battle Precognition to afford him the edge in direct combat. That being said, Sadow and Ragnos's hype as swordsmen based on the SWTOR website and Kreia's claim (which Avellone has confirmed to be accurate) makes them roughly equal with him in sheer prowess with a blade - however, a lightsaber is more practical than a Sith warblade (which is more or less directly confirmed by the TOR Encyclopedia), and Revan is just more combat-tested. I doubt Revan's directly more powerful than Sadow or Ragnos, either, but his powers are generally more combat-applicable.
I wouldn't underestimate Revan's knowledge and command of the Force. He have explored both the light and dark aspects of the Force in great depth and just the magnitude of his knowledge of dark aspects left Darth Bane in awe who spent weeks to digest such breath of knowledge but was reluctant to try many of the techniques and rituals that Revan had acquired knowledge of.
Revan's knowledge of the Force exceeded that of even Darth Traya who was highly learned in the ways of the Force and a Jedi Historian to boot.
Some revelations:
Like Revan, the Emperor understood the Force in ways Scourge never would.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
&
It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else she had ever met.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
Originally posted by SunRazer
Tulak's a better swordsman than Revan, though, and just as combat-tested.
Possible.
Tulak became famous for his legendary dueling abilities.
Originally posted by SunRazer
And as I said, they don't compare to Kun or Ulic. At that point in time, at least. And they still lasted a fairly long amount of time - imagine how long Kun and Ulic would last, not to mention that they wouldn't be as strained and would be potentially able to hurl Blasts and the like in retaliation.
Who are 'they'?
Ulic isn't a peer of Exar Kun either. Ulic certainly stalemated Exar once, but the latter became more powerful afterwards.
Vitiate doesn't needs Force Drain powers to strain Ulic and Exar Kun, Vitiate's telepathic powers are sufficient for this purpose. Honestly, Ulic is nearly useless in this confrontation. Exar Kun is the only individual who may put up a decent fight but will eventually loose as well.
Against Vitiate, numbers do not matter much. As an example, Vitiate could solo the trio of Revan, Meetra Surik and Lord Scourge.
Originally posted by SunRazer
He did that, like, once, in the Revan novel.Not sure how well it'd work, though. Kun might be able to break out of the telepathic trauma via Scream like Bane did in DoE, but he could get disoriented.
Yes, you are making progress. Good.
Originally posted by SunRazer
As I said, there's options for both teams to win.
Vitiate is likely to defeat this duo in most situations.
Originally posted by SunRazer
There's a respect thread for Qel-Droma on the Internet, you can find the feat there.
I know.
Originally posted by SunRazer
His Barrier would last against Vitiate's Force Lightning for some time, yes.
Nope.
The Jedi Strike Team attempted to defend themselves from Vitiate's FLS using lightsabers but the Jedi and their weapons failed. Also, Vitiate went easy on this Strike Team. No, I am not kidding; you would know if you have read Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
Originally posted by SunRazer
Sion was immortal, too, but he was still affected by basic powers.
Vitiate have relatively much superior command of the Force as well on top of immortality.