Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma vs. Vitiate.

Originally posted by Selenial
Lol, so your entire argument is that your personal Malak bias is proof that Vitiate can use drain in combat?

Guys, Sidious could drain Natheema without the 8000 Sith because he's totally more powerful than vitiate and I refuse to believe that shitty carbon copy can do better than Sidious. Am I doing this right Neph? 😕

Vitiate's force knowledge far exceeds Malaks. He comes from the empire that Malak is feeding scraps of knowledge from. An Empire where Nihilus' technique freaking originates from and that was known to have great knowledge of draining abilities.

Also Swtor Inquisitors and Sorcerers are stated to be able to use force drain in combat so yeah. 😐

Originally posted by Selenial
Because it was proof that different spheres of a power can sometimes require different times. For Talzin to totally encase her body in a sphere of a barrier took a couple seconds, a forward shield capable of blocking Sidious and Dooku however was instant.

Originally posted by Selenial
Oh, and you really haven't. Anyone else can see that, not sure why you can't.

Malak experienced Malachor, he never learned drain in a conventional way.

And congratulations I guess? There are many variations of drain so I'm not sure what that means, but just because an underling can do it doesn't mean Vitiate can. Or by extension Vitiate apparently has the dread masters power, Atris can use battle meditation or Yoda can use Vapaad.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
While I see your point, I don't see the relevance of it in the matters of Force Drain powers of Vitiate.

So draining Revan means nothing or you (and other critics) mistakenly assume that Revan was a willing subject?

Prove to me that Vitiate didn't have to prepare the draining of Revan, or that it didn't require him to form a link with Revan first.

Originally posted by Selenial
He never learned drain in a conventional way.

Originally posted by Selenial
And congratulations I guess? There are many variations of drain so I'm not sure what that means, but just because an underling can do it doesn't mean Vitiate can. Or by extension Vitiate apparently has the dread masters power, Atris can use battle meditation or Yoda can use Vapaad.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

No idea what the relevance of that is.

I happily said he knew drain, but that he learned it off Malachor, not from some holocron.

Originally posted by Selenial
No idea what the relevance of that is.

I happily said he knew drain, but that he learned it off Malachor, not from some holocron.

Malak would have learned it either from Revan when he plundered the ancient underground city on Malachor V that was destroyed in the Mandalorian Wars, or from Korriban itself.

Originally posted by Selenial
Malak experienced Malachor, he never learned drain in a conventional way.

And congratulations I guess? There are many variations of drain so I'm not sure what that means, but just because an underling can do it doesn't mean Vitiate can. Or by extension Vitiate apparently has the dread masters power, Atris can use battle meditation or Yoda can use Vapaad.

What, you think Malak knew the Traya-Nihilus drain? No. I highly doubt Malak knew that version or he would have insta-pwned Revan. Wouldn't Malak have resisted Malachor's influence? He exhibits none of the symptons that using that version of force drain leads to.

Yes, like I said there are variations of drain. Vitiate can almost certainly use the standard force drain that any Sith bumpkin can learn. But he's not using Nihilus' variant. He'd never surrender his mind in such a manner, the whole point of the Nathema ritual was seemingly to use a similar process in a non-harmful manner, wouldn't you agree?

The only people in Revans empore who knew drain (confirmed anyway) were Malak, Revan and his assassins.

Malaks drain is underrated, he fully restored his own power using it. It appears to be the same power Traya/Surik used in that no other form of Drain has ever been shown to be that prominent.

Not to mention that Revans academy on Malachor was said to be the only method of learning Drain by Traya. If they knew of another source, she wouldn't have said anything of the sort.

Originally posted by Selenial
Prove to me that Vitiate didn't have to prepare the draining of Revan, or that it didn't require him to form a link with Revan first.

It is also not stated or implied in any source that Vitiate's Force Drain powers are dependent upon his telepathic links with targets to materialize.

Except Vitiate's drain is slow and constant, that very much implies a unique form of drain that isn't applicable in combat. And the only people he's drained he has a link with, unless I'm missing someone.

Originally posted by Selenial
The only people in Revans empore who knew drain (confirmed anyway) were Malak, Revan and his assassins.

Malaks drain is underrated, he fully restored his own power using it. It appears to be the same power Traya/Surik used in that no other form of Drain has ever been shown to be that prominent.

Not to mention that Revans academy on Malachor was said to be the only method of learning Drain by Traya. If they knew of another source, she wouldn't have said anything of the sort.

No. Chris confirmed that the drain of Malachor has a major side-effect that the normal doesn't - it strips away your mind and identity, slowly consuming you. That's why Traya rarely used it.

Malak wouldn't have used it so freely on the Star Forge if that was true. We know for a fact Revan got the normal drain lore from Zelashiel the Blasphemer, and that's where Malak probably got it too.

Granted, Revan also knew of the drain Traya knew of, and was the one who originally exploited it by teaching it to the Assassins, but Revan wouldn't have taught Malak it. Plus, Malak would first have to travel to Malachor.

Originally posted by Selenial
The only people in Revans empore who knew drain (confirmed anyway) were Malak, Revan and his assassins.

Malaks drain is underrated, he fully restored his own power using it. It appears to be the same power Traya/Surik used in that no other form of Drain has ever been shown to be that prominent.

Not to mention that Revans academy on Malachor was said to be the only method of learning Drain by Traya. If they knew of another source, she wouldn't have said anything of the sort.

The only method of learning that variant, not standard force drain itself. The common version is, well, common.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No. Chris confirmed that the drain of Malachor has a major side-effect that the normal doesn't - it strips away your mind and identity, slowly consuming you. That's why Traya rarely used it.

Malak wouldn't have used it so freely on the Star Forge if that was true. We know for a fact Revan got the normal drain lore from Zelashiel the Blasphemer, and that's where Malak probably got it too.

Granted, Revan also knew of the drain Traya knew of, and was the one who originally exploited it by teaching it to the Assassins, but Revan wouldn't have taught Malak it. Plus, Malak would first have to travel to Malachor.

I forgot about Zelashiel.

Doesn't bane explicitly state though that it's almost impossible to use in combat? Kinda proves my point, no?

Originally posted by Selenial
I forgot about Zelashiel.

Doesn't bane explicitly state though that it's almost impossible to use in combat? Kinda proves my point, no?

But Swtor mentions Inquisitor's using it on enemies a lot. Even Warriors can use it:

"Protecting their allies and punishing their adversaries, they charge into the thick of any fray, and take the brunt of the assault and are even able to drain the energy of their enemies to further strengthen their resolve."

@Selenial: I didn't read your point in the first place, I merely wanted to correct the Malak part. I'm not trying to argue against or for you.
Well, debatable. Revan's holocron was damaged, so the motion Bane would have understood the full extend of what Revan/Malak did is not true.
And we also know holocron's only give information the user is powerful enough to understand, so perhaps that Bane simply wasn't ready to know how it could be used in combat.

Originally posted by Selenial
Except Vitiate's drain is slow and constant, that very much implies a unique form of drain that isn't applicable in combat. And the only people he's drained he has a link with, unless I'm missing someone.

Vitiate also frequently drained energy of his captives in the Dark Temple. The captives don't sound like willing targets, and I don't think that they lasted long in such conditions.

Revan endured Vitiate's drain by replenishing his energy from Surik's ghost whenever subjected to it. However, Revan's strength eventually began to falter during the course of his imprisonment and this motivated Surik's ghost to orchestrate his freedom. If not for Surik's ghost, I don't see the possibility of Revan to have survive the ordeal.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What, you think Malak knew the Traya-Nihilus drain? No. I highly doubt Malak knew that version or he would have insta-pwned Revan. Wouldn't Malak have resisted Malachor's influence? He exhibits none of the symptons that using that version of force drain leads to.

Yes, like I said there are variations of drain. Vitiate can almost certainly use the standard force drain that any Sith bumpkin can learn. But he's not using Nihilus' variant. He'd never surrender his mind in such a manner, the whole point of the Nathema ritual was seemingly to use a similar process in a non-harmful manner, wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate can almost certainly use a standard Force Drain in combat. Malak could and I refuse the idea that tin-chin could do something Vitiate couldn't. But Vitiate can't use Nihilus and Traya's specific technique.