Not saying he contradicted, but the Dev said:
"Using his immense power in the dark side of the Force, he has dominated the minds of the planet's martial forces--as well as an elite cadre of militaristic Jedi--and has set them against the populace, engaging in a bloody slaughter."
Authorial intent seems that while Vitiate did do it on a nexus, he could probably do it off a nexus as well. At least, that's my speculation.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not saying he contradicted, but the Dev said:"Using his immense power in the dark side of the Force, he has dominated the minds of the planet's martial forces--as well as an elite cadre of militaristic Jedi--and has set them against the populace, engaging in a bloody slaughter."
Right, I read that. Unless there's no contradiction, though, I'm not sure what the fuss is.
There's no discrepancy between the developer's announcement of the patch and Kovach's report. There is certainly a contradiction between your interpretation of each, however, if that interpretation is "Vitiate's feats are solely the product of his own natural energies totally divorced of Ziost's inherent dark side bent."
Otherwise, sounds like it was the product of Vitiate's immense powers... being bolstered by Ziost and the ensuing massacres. No contradiction between the two sources unless you create one and if you do, it's your burden to prove.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not saying he contradicted, but the Dev said:"Using [b]his
immense power in the dark side of the Force, he has dominated the minds of the planet's martial forces--as well as an elite cadre of militaristic Jedi--and has set them against the populace, engaging in a bloody slaughter."Authorial intent seems that while Vitiate did do it on a nexus, he could probably do it off a nexus as well. At least, that's my speculation. [/B]
You do understand the people who right that are community staff right? They don't even write for SWTOR.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Erm, Force spirits are made from Force energy, they are part of the Living Force itself. Midi-chlorians are not the Force, they are a middle man, channeling the Force through midichlorians is not channeling the Force directly, its channeling it indirectly.
Um, I'm pretty sure the whole point of a Sith Spirit is that they don't become part of the Living Force? That's like the entire point and what differentiates them from Jedi ghosts. They may be composed of Force energy, but its contained by their will and unconnected to the Living Force itself.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I mean really this is basically Star Wars knowledge, that when a Force User dies they pass into the Netherworld of the Force, that they become one with the Force. The spirit state is therefore a state of limbo, but its much closer to the Force than any coporeal being could be, who channels the Force through an essential third party.
Like I said, wheres your evidence that they're more closely tied to the Force and thus can channel it easier? A state of limbo means that you're unconnected to both the spiritual and physical planes. That's likely why so many Sith Spirits draw on other sources of energy to do things: Vitiate, Kallig, Kun, Ragnos etc. A Jedi ghost is connected more towards the Force, but is unable to interact with the physical world (Jedi Path), a Sith Spirit can interact with the physical world with the Force but is unconnected to it by their desire to remain independent. Thats my understanding at least.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I also see no evidence to support the notion that spirits tire easily. It took 4,000 years for Exar Kun's powers to be exhausted, and still he was powerful.
Because he didn't do anything or expend any energy. He basically hibernated the whole time. We see in TOR that spirits tire quite easily. Kallig states multiple times that he cannot do much without needing to recover and conserve his energy. The times he interacts with Nox appear to cost him energy quite rapidly. At points he even implies that he'd only capable of certain actions because of Nox's own power.
And Vitiate was explicitly diminished by being forced into a spirit form. He was not capable of recovering on his own and required outside forces to return to a sufficient state. If he were more closely connected to the Force than ever, why couldn't he draw on it to recover just like a normal living Sith Lord?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I've already provided many examples to support my argument, such as mere Sith Lords dominating the minds of other Sith Lords in the Dark Temple, which at the time only the Sith Emperor himself appeared capable of, and Exar Kun invading Luke's mind and sending him into a coma.
And I countered those examples by pointing out that the spirits were capable of that in a temple that puts people under considerable mental strain. And aren't the Sith in the Dark Temple all exceptional, which is why they were worthy of being put in it in the first place? Theres nothing mere about them, that they were even capable of manifesting spirits indicates they're a cut above average. And Kun needed to draw on the power of Yavin and Durron.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'd also remind you of this quote:
Uh, yeah. Kun has a powerful spirit. Doesn't mean he's as powerful as he was in life. And even though he believed he'd be capable of running rampant, as we saw he was very much limited. So that quote doesn't hold up. He was limited in is existence and in his ability to influence the world.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
And to add, some interesting things I found from The Tenebrous Way:I think its made obvious by these sources that when freed from your physical form barriers are broken down.
Wasn't Tenebrous' existence after death unique though? He didn't become a standard Force spirit. We know Vitiate didn't experience anything like that and was basically crazed and impotent in death.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
The Sith Emperor does have a presence, we see it leaving Yavin 4, and that presence needs an anchor, I expect the Emperor was capable of traversing the galaxy for a short while, but eventually he'd need somewhere for his spirit to be housed, and perhaps hand the assistance of the Emperor's Hand in his "escape".Selenial said something about a Temple, so expect upon arriving on Ziost, his presence was housed their, or somewhere on the planet, and it is there he is projecting himself. So yes, I would argue proximity is the issue here, so its not proof he's weaker than his corporeal form, which again never possessed anyone from a far.
Well to this I'd suggest we wait for more information. I doubt he'd need an anchor though, by all accounts Vitiate isn't limited in that capacity like a standard spirit. That's why his existence is also unique and he's "conquered death" in his words. If he was so limited then he really would just be a freaking bog standard spirit no different than Freedon Nadd or something.
You mean he never possessed anyone other than his Children and Voices? 😛
At any rate, I don't see why Lana would be further from his spirit than all the other people he possessed. Across the planet. Your point is entirely speculative. That he was unable to possess her is presented as a question of power and there's no real basis for your argument other than more unsubstantiated arguments.
Originally posted by Nephthys
A Jedi ghost is connected more towards the Force, but is unable to interact with the physical world (Jedi Path),
As we see in TCW this isn't the case. Kinda irrelevant to your whole point though...
Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh, yeah. Kun has a powerful spirit. Doesn't mean he's as powerful as he was in life. And even though he believed he'd be capable of running rampant, as we saw he was very much limited. So that quote doesn't hold up. He was limited in is existence and in his ability to influence the world.
The fact that a Jedi Army imprisoned him with a wall of light could be the reason for that. Just saying...
Originally posted by Nephthys
That he was unable to possess her is presented as a question of power and there's no real basis for your argument other than more unsubstantiated arguments.
As I pointed out earlier, this is likely because he is expanding vast amounts of his power to control thousands if not millions of people/aliens.
All in all, Vitiate in this expansion is portrayed as considerably more powerful then he ever was prior. To say he was more powerful prior to his ritual on Yavin is speculation. That he is more powerful now, however, is backed up by feats.
Originally posted by ares834
As we see in TCW this isn't the case. Kinda irrelevant to your whole point though...
How so? I mean, they can talk to people and do a few more things (Orgus appearing in the Hero's mind for example) but I'm not aware of more than that and I just checked the Jedi Path and it states no interaction.
Originally posted by ares834
The fact that a Jedi Army imprisoned him with a wall of light could be the reason for that. Just saying...
Possibly, but that's a weird thing for it to do. In any case though, were Kun capable of running rampant across the galaxy he would have also been atypical for a spirit since as Beni has pointed out the typically need an anchor. So if he had become incredibly powerful and unlimited in his scope that doesn't say much for the typical state of spirits.
Originally posted by ares834
As I pointed out earlier, this is likely because he is expanding vast amounts of his power to control thousands if not millions of people/aliens.All in all, Vitiate in this expansion is portrayed as considerably more powerful then he ever was prior. To say he was more powerful prior to his ritual on Yavin is speculation. That he is more powerful now, however, is backed up by feats.
Possibly, though Vitiate was gradually growing stronger and was still unable to dominate her. Even after losing control of a great many pawns he couldn't control her.
Not really. He was supposedly so above the Dread Masters that they were insignificant to him and he has a ton of other hype to that effect. All that's changed is that now he's getting the exposure that adds credence to things we already knew.