Originally posted by Mindset
He has only been ko'd 2 times from blunt force that I can remember.
He was KO'd by magneto hitting his head on the top of the train. He was KO'd by Sabertooth with the tree... he was KO'd in Origins by Creed again. He was KO'd in the Wolverine by arrows and a tipped in poison arrow. He was KO'd by a bullet when visiting Bobby's family. He was also KO'd in Origins by the adamantium bullet. Phoenix KO'd him. Magneto might have also KO'd him in the forest. He's been KO'd a decent amount of times in the movies.
Originally posted by Silent Master
"My logic" is going by what is in the movie.
Originally posted by Silent Master
That isn't my logic at all, it's says an awful lot about your side that you have to blatantly lie about my stance.My logic is two-fold 1) that the scene showed no evidence of superspeed, thus no superspeed was used and 2) Wolverine has zero feats of fighting at BT speeds, thus he doesn't have BT level speed.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, that isn't my stance all, if it was I'd be saying that Wade wasn't bullet-timing in the beginning of the movie since we can clearly see him.Speaking of Wade's BT scene, even if you remove the bullets from it, you'd still have proof that he was faster than normal since he was moving the blades so fast that they were leaving after-images. in the Wolverine fight there is zero evidence to support that he was moving faster than normal.
Originally posted by Silent Master
I didn't say that the swords leaving after images was proof that he was bullet-timing, I said that it was proof that he was moving faster than normal. him blocking the bullets and cutting one in half is what shows us how much faster than normal he is moving.The Wolverine fight has zero evidence that anybody was moving faster than normal.
Originally posted by Silent Master
He's misrepresenting my stance and then saying that my logic is faulty as that would mean guys that actually have speed feats(unlike Logan)don't have superspeed.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
So did you not read my post properly? I specifically took MoS and Garfield Spiderman, because Supes and Spidey got brought up. I never talked about any other characters. If you got "low end superhuman garbage" from their consistent feats throughout those 3 films, then you need your eyes checked.
I was actually focused only on the "tons of feats" shite. Like I said, most of fiction is unquantifiable, meaning you can't just make an unquantified statement and go either "oh yeah they're definitely that fast because they look fast to me" or "doesn't look impressive to me so it's not".
Like in DBZ for example, you have a few ki blasts and characters with qunatifiably Mach quadruple/quintuple speed feats during the Cell and Buu Sagas, rest of their fights appeared fast, mainly due to the presence of speed lines and afterimages, which is unquantifiable (if you tried to actually quantify most other movements, you'd get shit drastically below Mach 1)
But based on consistent feats throughout 6 films, Logan is not a bullet timer.
By "consistent" you clearly mean "devoid of showings that make him more powerful than I think he should be"
And I find it very hypocritical of you to accuse other people of wanting to throw out one feat because they apparently don't like it, but you want to disregard his showings over nearly 6 entire films because it doesn't suite your argument.
Yeah, taking the best feats of a fictional character and assuming it to be definitive of their abilities, that's how vs debating pretty much works these days for most verses, why does X-Men get more scrutiny?
I mean, Saitama from One Punch Man only caused a massive shockwave on the moon with a punch once, but he doesn't leave petaton level shockwaves every time he punches something, doesn't mean Saitama can't punch that hard, again, it'd be far from the first time a verse was scaled to a single feat, you know (actually, pretty sure this'd be far from an outlier, hell, Magneto's stopped bullets in motion and Shaw, well pretty sure during Hellfire Club's raid on the CIA building he caught bullets when surrounded and fired upon, but don't quote me on that)
And there is a lot more evidence to support the operation affecting Wade negatively, and possibly affecting his combat abilities, than there are for Logan suddenly being a bullet timer. Hell, he needed keyboard commands to even start fighting, and needed kill orders to go for a decap. If you literally need instructions programmed into you to perform certain actions in a fight, you cannot be considered to be fighting at full potential.
How does needing orders from a computer make him any slower, much less an order of magnitude, exactly?
So I will ask you, do you think that all those characters who are more than capable of keeping up with Logan (even normal humans) are bullet timers too? Because by your logic and argument in this thread, they are.
If he was someone like Sabretooth who could match or even exceed him physically, then yeah. I mean, Kenpachi from Bleach has no speed feats personally, but he's physically superior to beings who have speed feats in his verse
As for normal humans hitting him, like I said before, this is a regular thing in fiction for character where super speed isn't their primary power to e hit by far slower things (even for characters like Goku, Yusuke Urameshi, Primarchs, Herald tier beings, etc)
Hell, pretty sure Wolverine in the comic verse who's bullet timed himself had been hit by normal humans before
True, according to him, Wolverine is a bullet-timer because he fought Deadpool, well so did Sabretooth so that means he is also a bullet-timer.
blah blah blah incredulity blah blah blah snide passive aggressive condescension
Nothing of substance here moving on
Guess Blob is now a speedster as well
Aaaand applying real life limitations to this shit, it's like saying the WW2 German Navy could beat the One Piece verse because they're an era of gunpowder and sail technology
Hell, Whitebeard and Blackbeard are much bigger than Blob, and are faster than the X-Men verse by god knows how many Mach numbers. The limits of reality are not the limits of fiction
Originally posted by Werewolf582
And again, Superman and spiderman were fighting as fast as human beings going by that logic.
You're still ignoring the part where Wolverine has zero feats of bullet-time speed.
IOW, Zero feats of bullet-time speed + no evidence of bullet-time speed being used in that scene = Wolverine wasn't fighting at bullet-time speed.
But yeah, I fail to understand why people who believe a bullet timing speed is so hard to believe, whereas for other verses nobody really cared
Hell, if you guys are perturbed by bullet timing movieverse X-Men chars, I honestly can't imagine how you guys'd react to massively hypersonic, continent busting Final Fantasy characters, massively hypersonic small town level Metal Gear characters, etc
Silent believes you need to see nothing at all or blurry stuff in order for speed to be shown. We see Faora move at super speeds and make regular trained soldiers not be able to react to her. Yet, superman is able to react to her and hit her... So how is that him not s using super speed. IT's so weird people mistake the director wanting the audience to see what's is going on so things are slowed down for that purpose. That IS what we want to see.. the action. Yet, somehow this is taken as oohhhh look they have normal speed. LIke in the matrix when we see them dodging bullets... we actually see it.. so it must be less than human speed as it is shown even slower than a human can move... yet me know is much much faster than that.
Originally posted by Silent Master
You're still ignoring the part where Wolverine has zero feats of bullet-time speed.IOW, Zero feats of bullet-time speed + no evidence of bullet-time speed being used in that scene = Wolverine wasn't fighting at bullet-time speed.
And your ignoring the fact that I never said or believed Wolverine had BT speed. I said your logic is faulty cause implying that, Superman never dodged bullets and was by them as well. Even though having feats that shit over BT speed.
Again SR made you butthurt over this, so focus that butthurt towards him and not me.
Originally posted by Werewolf582
And your ignoring the fact that I never said or believed Wolverine had BT speed. I said your logic is faulty cause implying that, Superman never dodged bullets and was by them as well. Even though having feats that shit over BT speed.Again SR made you butthurt over this, so focus that butthurt towards him and not me.
Except my logic isn't faulty, as my logic is that Wolverine doesn't have bullet-time feats, thus he doesn't have bullet time speed.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Silent believes you need to see nothing at all or blurry stuff in order for speed to be shown. We see Faora move at super speeds and make regular trained soldiers not be able to react to her. Yet, superman is able to react to her and hit her... So how is that him not s using super speed. IT's so weird people mistake the director wanting the audience to see what's is going on so things are slowed down for that purpose. That IS what we want to see.. the action. Yet, somehow this is taken as oohhhh look they have normal speed. LIke in the matrix when we see them dodging bullets... we actually see it.. so it must be less than human speed as it is shown even slower than a human can move... yet me know is much much faster than that.
She moves at that speed, But every punch, Kick or anything H2H wise. She wasn't a blur. That's what I'm arguing about. Silent said since no after images or blurs were created, DP wasn't fighting at his normal speed.
Again your using SRs logic on Wolverine being BT speed. Logic Silent disagrees with.
I agree on most of the other stuff.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Except my logic isn't faulty, as my logic is that Wolverine doesn't have bullet-time feats, thus he doesn't have bullet time speed.
And thus, since people like superman don't have feats of dodging bullets, He isn't BT speed. We see DP having a BT speed, but since he didn't show blurs or afterimages in his second fight, you immediately spam the "Oh he lost his speed" BS.
Originally posted by Werewolf582
She moves at that speed, But every punch, Kick or anything H2H wise. She wasn't a blur. That's what I'm arguing about. Silent said since no after images or blurs were created, DP wasn't fighting at his normal speed.Again your using SRs logic on Wolverine being BT speed. Logic Silent disagrees with.
I agree on most of the other stuff.
I'm confused what your position is? Are you saying superman was fighting at human level speed again Faora because no blurry lines or after images created? Or are you saying he was but it just wasn't shown that way. My position Is that sometimes directors want us to see the action for ourselves and that is why they slow it down for us, but that doesn't mean the director thinks they are moving at human level speed. Sometimes people choose to show blurry after images and sometimes they don't. It just really depends. However, when we know people are fast.. they are fast.. period. Wolverine is different as he's shown to be tagged by normal humans without an issue. So his speed is all over the place. Sometimes it's fast... other times doesn't seem so fast. However, this logic that you need to see blurry after images or they are moving at human speed is ridiculous and misses the clear presentation of the movie and the characters.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
SM never made any claims about Supes or Spiderman, so Werewolf trying to make out as though he is suggesting that they fight at human levels is a joke. Even more so, considering latest movie Supes dodges out of the way of the barrage of bullets in the Smallville fight in MoS (as well as keeping up with people who are shown to easily blitz humans or create sonic booms [B]while fighting him), and Garfield Spidey has a feat in ASM1 where he casually dodges 4 bullets at point blank range, while talking trash, as well as his numerous other super reaction feats throughout the films. And that is just taking the latest versions of those 2.And LOL at people waving stuff around quickly == Wade's feats. When a regular person can start turning after a round is fired at their back, yet is still fast enough to complete the turn and slice it in half, then they can compare to pre-upgrade Wade.
I mean really, use some common sense here. Logan has never once in any of the films displayed anything remotely close to bullet timer speed. The other people Werewolf is trying to compare him to have plenty of feats that make it obvious they operate above normal human speeds.
Basically, Werewolf82 is trying to argue that characters with known super speed and tons of feats to back it up, who occasionally have lower showings, is the same thing as a character with zero speed feats across 6 films and 1 fight against someone who performed a bullet timing feat under vastly different circumstances, at another time. [/B]
Agreed.
Originally posted by FrothByte
So... are you saying Wolverine is just as fast combat-wise as Superman and Spiderman?
If I were to use SMs logic, then yes.
His argument is that DP showed no After images or Blurs during his last fight scene, and therefore, did not use Superspeed when fighting.
Again, using that logic, Superman and Spiderman fight just as fast as Wolverine which is total BS.