Originally posted by Selenial
Lol using one picture is absolutely ridiculous. We don't see the whole courtyard, you have to watch the scene. There are 5 large obelisks, and 5 small on each side.By your own admission Thats about 30 tonnes.
Total weight of these objects would be around 20 tons, considering size and quantity.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66A Jedi Master who was able with the Wrath's help to contend with and defeat Darth Ekkage.
It was assisted by a Jedi Knight who was defeated by a handful of commandos... it doesn't change the impressiveness. 😬Dooku has nothing on that. ^
Nope. He was ordered by Darth Baras to eliminate everyone there - something confirmed by Captian Eligyn.
You know:
...one of the greatest Sith assassins to ever live...Who was capable of killing a Sith Lord with "a mere flick of my wrist".and
[QUOTE]...was as powerful a weapon as the Sith have ever had...
We don't know the circumstances surrounding this Jedi's defeat at the hands of Sith Commandos (that's an elite soldier), all we know is that their were "quite a lot of them". Fact is though you have to be considerably strong in the Force to, even with an ally, contend and defeat such an extremely deadly individual.
You need to reassess his abilities, I expect his contribution was considerable. On top of that considering the Wrath enlisted its help, the implication is he couldn't achieve this feat single handedly.
P.S. The Barsenthor would have spread the impact over the entire door equally, so of course we can't expect any one part to be disintegrated, however if she concentrated that energy into a door many many times smaller and thinner, it could well be disintegrated.
Anyway I agree with the general sentiment, Dooku's skills with the blade were said to be matched only by Yoda and Windu and in fact has beaten Windu in a duel. Both being regarded as among the most skilled lightsaber duelists in Jedi history, and Yoda arguably the greatest Jedi lightsaber duelist the Order had ever seen.
He has only ever been overwhelmed through strength by Yoda (the most powerful Jedi in history at the time and equal to Sidious) and Anakin (the frikken Chosen One who struck with the force of a meteor).
Dooku even managed to contend with Yoda in a lightsaber duel and prior to ROTS has proven himself Anakin's equal several times over. The Wrath has nothing on this individuals.
No way that the Wrath be able to overwhelm Dooku with strength, skill or speed.
In terms of the Force, Dooku was regarded as one of the most powerful Jedi in galactic history, and as a Sith he grew considerably stronger. And he's demonstrated a greater degree of skill and refinement in TK and in general than the Wrath, which is what counts in a duel. Finally he's a master of Dun Moch, and should have little trouble anaylsing the Wrath's brutish style and mental weaknesses so that he can dismantle them.
The duel will be hard pressed, but Dooku will be the victor.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
*snips*
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDThe guy had no lightsabers, and was outnumbered 20 to 1. Prove the Wrath could beat those odds.
Really?What happened against the gang of some pirates?
Also, defeating an opponent (i.e. Lord Draahg) who can ragdoll and disintegrate a Dark Council member:Darth Vowrawn, self professed to be weak in the Force, and backed up by the fact that Baras sent a bounty hunter to kill him. Ventress/Savage > Vowrawn.>>>>> Any showing of Dooku.
Dooku doesn't even have command of Force abilities like that of Lord Draahg and if Emperor's Wrath can resist such powers, he is going to tank anything Dooku can throw at him.Draahg has nothing on Dooku.
Also, lightsaber combat is Emperor's Wrath forte. I don't see Dooku outdueling someone as powerful and skilled as Emperor's Wrath, not in a thousand years.LOL, and it isn't Dooku's also? Dooku's skill in lightsaber combat was legendary, and he has contended with legendary duelists, the Wrath has no such accolades.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Not sure what your referring to exactly but:
Not at all. Another Lord helped the Wrath defeated Darth Vengean, but he admitted later at the end of the fight the victory would have had not been possible without the Wrath - and it was his victory.
It's like how Theron Shan and the Wookiee can survive in a battle against Revan on Yavin IV. Other opponents are there that are the main bulk, with him being the back up from the corners, you know?
1. Lord Draagh's comments hardly apply to a completely different situation. Regardless, all that tells us is that Vengean > Draagh, I think we are all aware of that.
2. We are talking about a lightsaber duel, up close and personal, if you can't stand the heat, you die, there are no sidelines.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not sure what your referring to exactly but:1. Lord Draagh's comments hardly apply to a completely different situation. Regardless, all that tells us is that Vengean > Draagh, I think we are all aware of that.
2. We are talking about a lightsaber duel, up close and personal, if you can't stand the heat, you die, there are no sidelines.
Draagh gets taken out of the fight halfway through as I recall, via the Force.
Also the Wrath had to fight through Vengeans elite, cherry-picked Sith to get to him. While Vengean was prepping for the fight by communing with the darkside.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I see 4 large and 4 small obelisks on each side in your image and also in the video. Total is 16.Total weight of these objects would be around 20 tons, considering size and quantity.
Lol you have no idea what the density of the metal used there is. Its clearly not standard metal or Savage (who has easily force pushed Shuttle craft) would have no problem lifting it.
Originally posted by NephthysYeah but the point is, its irrelevant.
Draagh gets taken out of the fight halfway through as I recall, via the Force.Also the Wrath had to fight through Vengeans elite, cherry-picked Sith to get to him. While Vengean was prepping for the fight by communing with the darkside.
The duel with Vengean has nothing to do with anything.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not at that state. We've been through this before.That fight doesn't give me anything on The Wraths skills or power as a warrior, as it's an unquantifiable feat. Unless you can tell me how he'd beat Ventress based on that confrontation alone. Lightning? TK? Saber ability? If you're going to make such a conclusion then you might as well say he's more powerful than Vitiate and Makor, which would only hurt the latter two.
The door feat was impressive, though. It was a very thin door evidently. The jedi who helped, what are his TK feats outside of that scenario?
While in that state he performs a feat that's vastly better than Kenobi and Ventress' capabilities. That the Wrath can defeat a being much more powerful than them indicates that he is capable of withstanding power far greater than them or Dooku and defeating a being more powerful than Dooku, Ventress or Kenobi. At the very least this proves that Dooku will have no luck overpowering him with the Force.
I don't need to say he's better than Vitiate or Makor to prove he's better than Dooku, Ventress or Kenobi. Just that he's better than the being who was able to create monsters seemingly out of thin air. That's enough. Based upon that feat, Sel Makor could certainly overpower Ventress and Kenobi via the Force and likely Dooku as well.
The Wrath has other things that establish his TK, force defenses, physical abilities and lightsaber skill, but that feat certainly establishes the kind of power he's capable of dealing with. Which in turn indicates how powerful he is.
The Jedi has no feats outside of that as far as I know.
Originally posted by Selenial
Lol using one picture is absolutely ridiculous. We don't see the whole courtyard, you have to watch the scene. There are 5 large obelisks, and 5 small on each side.By your own admission Thats about 30 tonnes.
There's only 4 small obelisks on each side, so theres 18 I guess.
Originally posted by Raptor22
"The average weight of a sandstone boulder is approximately 150 pounds per cubic foot. Limestone boulders and granite boulders in most cases weigh more. They average about 175 pounds per cubic foot." -Delaware quarries inc.
Metal, particularly space age metal should be denser and heavier than rock. So the Wrath's feat should still be better imo.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol you have no idea what the density of the metal used there is. Its clearly not standard metal or Savage (who has easily force pushed Shuttle craft) would have no problem lifting it.
You're saying characters are inconsistent? Say it ain't so! Plus that shuttle feat was after some training with Dooku, not before. And of course there's a huge difference between pushing something and lifting it.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Just that he's better than the being who was able to create monsters seemingly out of thin air. That's enough. Based upon that feat, Sel Makor could certainly overpower Ventress and Kenobi via the Force and likely Dooku as well.
That's not enough at all TBH.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Metal, particularly space age metal should be denser and heavier than rock. So the Wrath's feat should still be better imo.
Stronger, sure. Denser and heavier? No, not at all. Just look at Titanium.
Originally posted by ares834
You're saying characters are inconsistent? Say it ain't so! Plus that shuttle feat was after some training with Dooku, not before. And of course there's a huge difference between pushing something and lifting it.
Yes that's true, but the gap can't possibly be that much after what? A few weeks of training?
Originally posted by ares834
Stronger, sure. Denser and heavier? No, not at all. Just look at Titanium.
Same difference. It would take more force to obliterate that door than it would to lift those obelisks.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah but the point is, its irrelevant.The duel with Vengean has nothing to do with anything.
Well it kind of establishes that one dude surviving a duel doesn't mean he meaningfully contributed or necessarily takes much away from the feat.
T3 survived Vitiate, the Wraths companions survive his fights etc. Doesn't mean they're all that great.
Originally posted by Raptor22Note before reading this that all units were rounded down and smaller than I feel they actually are, this is a base estimate for Dooku's feat, not an exaggeration. Not to mention that Sith training areas arent likely to use light materials that aren't dense, the Star Wars universe has soil that's apparently as dense as concrete, so.... Anyway.
.
Well, savage is 7 foot 1 inch tall. Using him we can predict the heights and widths of the large and small Orbalisks. They are taller than him by a large stretch, roughly 10 feet tall. They are half as wide as he is tall, so roughly 3.5 feet wide.
They also have a small prism on the bottom to take into account, about 4 feet deep.
The volume of That prism is therefore (3.5^2x10)/3, or 40.833 cubic feet. The small prism on the bottom is (3.5^2x4)/3 or 16.333. Add them together and you get a total volume of 57 cubic feet, which equates to 9975 pounds, or 4.5 tonnes.
The smalls are about 5 feet tall, 1 foot wide. So all put together they're about 1.5 tonnes.
So Yeh, total Dooku's feat is about 46-47 tonnes of pure TK.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
TBH I don't rate Dooku's obelisk feat, regardless of how many obelisks were involved or how heavy they were, the fact is Savage managed it too.However given that, Dooku can probably lift much more.
Savage lifted two with massive difficulty.
Dooku lifted 10 with ease. And some small ones for good measure.