Originally posted by Nephthys
While in that state he performs a feat that's vastly better than Kenobi and Ventress' capabilities. That the Wrath can defeat a being much more powerful than them indicates that he is capable of withstanding power far greater than them or Dooku and defeating a being more powerful than Dooku, Ventress or Kenobi. At the very least this proves that Dooku will have no luck overpowering him with the Force.I don't need to say he's better than Vitiate or Makor to prove he's better than Dooku, Ventress or Kenobi. Just that he's better than the being who was able to create monsters seemingly out of thin air. That's enough. Based upon that feat, Sel Makor could certainly overpower Ventress and Kenobi via the Force and likely Dooku as well.
The Wrath has other things that establish his TK, force defenses, physical abilities and lightsaber skill, but that feat certainly establishes the kind of power he's capable of dealing with. Which in turn indicates how powerful he is.
The Jedi has no feats outside of that as far as I know.
There's only 4 small obelisks on each side, so theres 18 I guess.
Metal, particularly space age metal should be denser and heavier than rock. So the Wrath's feat should still be better imo.
A weakened Makor can defeat Dooku because he can create monsters? The fact that he was defeated by a regular force user is complete proof that at that state, he's vulnerable to Dooku level force user, considering The Wrath's feats outside of that situation are inferior to Dooku's. Sorry but you can't use an unquantifiable feat to rank a force user where you want. You might as well say he'd beat Sidious and Yoda too (please don't tell me you think he could?). If, however, you do not believe he's capable of defeating Sidious/Yoda, then explain your reasoning why he would be unable to. You're basing your assertion on something The Wrath has done that Ventress hasn't. The same reasoning behind your argument would apply to Yoda/Sidious as well. Sorry but defeating a weakened Makor, who can create monsters, doesn't establish The Wrath's skills and power as a combatant. Not to mention, IIRC, Sidious had a hand who was capable of creating for like monsters called force wraiths or something. Besides, The Wrath only killed the body that was possessed.
The door feat is vastly impressive, but if you're unable to establish how powerful the jedi is in terms of TK, then we don't know how much help he provided. The door was also very thin. I mean, they were talking to each other as if they were in the same room, and the door also required a force field to keep the jedi in. The feat isn't all that more impressive than Savage busting out of a jail cell which was resistant to blaster bolts and lightsabers, and didn't require force fields to keep prisoners, yet Savage, all on his own, reduced the material into perhaps millions of pieces.
Also, I'm not sure the force required to bust through a blast door would be more than to push a star ship a pretty long distance, let alone Dooku's feat of lifting all those obelisks at once. Direct application requires more concentration than force pushes, and Dooku not only directly gripped those stones, but lifted them against the force a gravity. Depending on how durable those doors are, the force required to push a starship should be enough to break open those doors, as well as the force required to lift those stones.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I love how this could be used to disregard like, everything. 🙄
🙄
What I was saying is obvious. Just because Savage was unable to lift them does not mean they were some super dense metal. Hell, it looks like they are stone rather than metal anyway.
Of course Legends math was wrong. 2 tons is probably the minimum not maximum weight of the large pillars, but my point remains.
Originally posted by ares834You appear to be saying that we can cherry pick what we want irregardless of whether they are from the same source...
🙄What I was saying is obvious. Just because Savage was unable to lift them does not mean they were some super dense metal. Hell, it looks like they are stone rather than metal anyway.
Of course Legends math was wrong. 2 tons is probably the minimum not maximum weight of the large pillars, but my point remains.
Savage has pretty impressive TK feats, he can generate Force waves that can blow away dozens of enemies, he's pushed a shuttle of a cliff and he's TK'ed powerful Force Users.
Lifting a pair of medium sized rocks should not be beyond him. I think that implies they are made of an extra dense stone, which would make sense for a Sith training arena designed to be challenging.
Still I don't know about any of these calculations TBH, the Muunturr stones are supposed to way 1 to 5 tonnes each, Yoda can only lift five.
That's like, 25 tonnes max...
He performed those feats after he turned on Dooku, at which point he's clearly much more powerful than he was in that training session. He could also be struggling from the strain of moving so many heavy objects simultaneously, instead of just lashing out like he usually does.
Originally posted by Stigma
Damn... 👆Dooku wins, btw.
You know, that's not actually that heavy.
After his training with Maul, I'm pretty sure he would be capable of lifting them. The databank did state he has grown more powerful since then, and even Dooku implied that his power increases at a very quick rate (nightsister magic I'm sure). But even while working for Dooku, he was powerful enough to kill a padawan with a force push (though it could have been a physical attack, as it only showed the padawan fly), blast through the metal door to King Katuunko's palace, and force push a star ship a pretty far distance. Yet he was still Dooku's inferior by quite a lot, until he went rage mode. The databank states that's when he "found" his power, implying that that's the moment he learned to harness and focus his power much better. Still, though, he was rage amped and straining to keep Dooku and Ventress in his grip, so it's not something he's capable of at any time, and Dooku still has better feats than him, even after his growth in power.
🙄 God forbid a typo!
A minivan sized meteor weighs 75 tons according to NASA - 68 metric tons.
(Of course it varies depending on the type of rock though, but a good estimate).
So, Revan pulling down one of the 30 he pulled down is already better than Dooku.
Failure of logic. Savage drastically improved since then. Even, as S66 said above, the databanks say this.
Ant, the Asteroids were falling already. And accelerating a descent is completely different to lifting them.
Jesus, do your school teach you nothing?
@Beni : As for the Muuntur stones, the issue always seemed to be the number, the imbalance, more than the weight. Dooku's feat shows mastery more than raw power as well. Yoda has TK feats that blow that out the water, but never with so many individual things. *shrug* TCW could of course just have retconned them.
Yoda's stopped an avalanche of free falling huge boulders in midair, then threw them to the side in the first episode of TCW. And in Yoda: DR, he prevented several vehicles and small transports from being sucked into the vacuum of space, or something like that. I'd have to check the passage again. I might be wrong.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yoda's stopped an avalanche of free falling huge boulders in midair, then threw them to the side. And in Yoda: DR, he prevented several vehicles and small transports from being sucked into the vacuum of space, or something like that. I'd have to check the passage again.
Plus there's the whole army of droidekas thing. I guess the stones have just been retconned.