Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"She is as old as the Force. She is the dark side itself."In all seriousness though, why do people hate on the Entity so much when she get's hype on that caliber? ^
Because it ruined her character.
That quote pretty much proves it ain't Traya though, centuries dead could mean millennia tbh.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Selenial: Except we know her Jedi purge was the first, and as Sasukedc said, it was a "she."
@Nephthys: LOL. Wait a minute...
How do we know Traya's was the first Jedi Purge? That's pretty cool.
Either way, sorry I still won't believe it until it's confirmed. They ruined Traya almost as badly as they ruined revan, and unlike you Im not willing to accept the death of my favorite character just so I can wank her power more.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYour point is invalidated by the fact that a comparison cannot be made between taking on 20 odd pirates without a lightsaber a gun point and taking on scores of soldiers armed with a lightsaber and never 20 all at once.
My point is that Dooku cannot handle an army on his own as OP intended to assert.As for Emperor's Wrath; he cut a swath through large number of opponents several times, though he was armed in these confrontations.
Understand that being armed makes a considerable difference as it vastly increases your ability to deflect incoming fire. In the hands of any notably skilled user it makes you practically invulnerable to 10+ shooters.
Vowrawn may be weak by Dark Council standards but he still earned the moniker of [B]Darth and was counted among the most powerful Sith in the galaxy, a title and position that neither Ventress and nor Savage had not proven worthy to earn.Darth Vowrawn is 80 years old, and that codex entry demonstrates that he retained his position on the Dark Council purely through cunning, not physical strength. I'm not about to make assumptions about how he attained the position in the first place, but it is quite obvious that Vowrawn possesses little strength in the Force, and more likely than not that his powers have waned with age.From SWTOR:
Darth Vowrawn is a charming and sophisticated elder statesman who has served on the Dark Council for decades–no small feat in the Empire, where the tenure of new council members is often measured in weeks. His passionate, almost hedonistic pursuit of challenge is well known among his peers, who have learned never to underestimate his cutthroat enthusiasm. Vowrawn revels in the game of conquest and Sith power plays, driven to euphoria by all the rich details of his favorite sport. Many upstart Sith have attempted to best Vowrawn over the years through a variety of strategies, from complex schemes to bluntly direct surprise attacks. Although some scored temporary victories, Vowrawn’s talent for adjusting his strategy on the fly has left him the final victor in all these confrontations.
Vowrawn may not have flawless combat record but he have held his own in all of his confrontations including ambush attempts and survived. He shouldn't be underestimated.[/b]
This is not uncommon for members of the Council. Recall Darth Xedrix:
Xedrix is old and infirm. And he is human–they are a lesser species. Over the decades, the dark side has exacted too great a toll on his body. He is a hollow shell of what he once was. He holds on to his current position only because of his cunning. His followers obey him without question, too frightened of his reputation to see how age has ravaged his flesh and left him weak.So you cannot pretend that any accolades pertaining to a DC members power are at all absolute.―Darth Nyriss to Lord Scourge
For the record, compelling proof that Vowrawn is an inferior Force User to Ventress & Savage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNEAvZFQ6Xw&t=5m13s
"I applaud you. Convey my congratulations to your master for his superior game play. The kill is yours."Not only does Vowrawn accept their is no possibility he could defeat the Wrath, but appears to believe the assassin fully capable of killing him as well. These are not the capabilities of an "embodiment of death" I'm afraid. And I can assure you both Ventress and Savage would have decimated that assassin in a heart beat, and would have at least tried to challenge the Wrath."That assassin had to me dead to rights"
His status as a DC member does not change this, as explained, and is an invalid form of proof. I accept your concession.
From [B]SWTORFirst it says nothing about in history, I refuse to accept your baseless assumptions as valid.But Draahg is not to be underestimated. As the chosen apprentice of both Baras and Vengean, he possesses a breadth of knowledge and a depth of power few others can claim.
&
"Baras held back when training you, but he taught me everything. And Darth Vengean showed me dark side secrets even Baras doesn't know." (Lord Draahg to Emperor's Wrath)
The aforementioned revelations make it obvious that Lord Draahg likely acquired command of the dark side and possessed raw power that few matched and/or exceeded throughout galactic history. More importantly, Draahg had impressive command of Force Drain powers as apparent from his showing against Dark Council member Vowrawn; Draahg trapped Vowrawn in a deadly field with sheer force of will, a power which is extremely difficult to perform in combat situations and significantly accelerates aging process of the target and eventually disintegrates it.
"In minutes, the great Darth Vowrawn will disintegrate." (Lord Draahg)[/B]
Moving on, Dooku was privy to a thousand years of accumulated dark side knowledge and studied at the feet of Darth Sidious himself, the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history with vast knowledge of the Force. Dooku was also regarded as the most learned student in the Jedi Order, and acquired a personal collection of Sith holocrons and artifacts, including the holocron of Darth Anneddu. It is highly unlikely Draagh's knowledge of the Force is equal or superior to Dooku's.
What is important however is the power in the Force they possess, and indeed Dooku has been regarded as:
...one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history...And as a Sith Lord he grew even stronger:--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
This is Dooku, Darth Tyranus, Count of Serenno:You need to educate yourself on these ground realities and realise that Draagh, who has none such accolades, is certainly not more powerful than Count Dooku.Once a great Jedi master, now an even greater Lord of the Sith, Dooku is a dark colossus bestriding the galaxy. Nemesis of the corrupt Republic, oriflamme of the principled Confederacy of Independent Systems, he is the very personification of shock and awe.
--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
Darth Bane, who had superior command of the dark side then Count Dooku, was able to conjure a power of similar nature by drawing on the power of a nexus of dark side energy and still found it to be an extremely challenging application to utilize for long-term use.So your saying that Draahg is more powerful than Bane? Noted.From [B]Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil
Bane extinguished his weapon and stood perfectly still, allowing the
swarming horde to close in on him as he gathered his strength. He called upon the power of the temple itself, feeding on it to bolster his own abilities as he created a deadly field around his body. It began as a tight circle, but quickly spread outward until it extended to a radius of ten meters, with the Sith Lord at the center. The air within the circumference of the field suddenly became darker, as if the light from the red sun above had been
suddenly dimmed.Cloaked in the shadowy gloom, Bane simply held his ground against the enemy assault. The front ranks of onrushing cultists shrieked in agony as they entered the field, their life essence violently sucked out of their bodies, aging them a thousand years in only a few seconds. Muscles and tendons atrophied instantaneously; their skin withered and shrank, pulling tight across their bones. Eyes and tongues shriveled, turning them into mummified husks before their desiccated flesh crumbled away, leaving only skeletal remains and a few strands of hair.
The effort of creating an aura of pure dark side energy would have quickly exhausted even Bane.
However, as his enemies fell he was able to draw their essence into himself, feeding on their energies to revitalize his fading strength and reinforcing the field in preparation for the next wave of victims.[/B]
---
Have a good look at Draahg's performance in combat situation:
Draahg put Vowrawn in a deadly field and still had energy to proceed to confront Emperor's Wrath simultaneously. Do you even realize the raw power and command of the dark side needed to perform these actions simultaneously?
Regardless, your mistaken. Draahg isn't using the power applied by Bane here, which was a particulary potent form of Force drain. Draahg is using a form Force destruction, a power that uses field of dark side energy that can potentially disintegrate anything it comes into contact with.
While taxing, it is not the same ability, nor is Draahg's application nearly as potent. And as others have noted, was sustained by Draahg's cybernetic augmentations:
The death field. Is powered. By the machinery. Of Draagh's.Likely some kind of alchemical device. The point is it is evidently beyond his base powers.--the Entity
So this is not proof Draagh beats Dooku, which leaves you with no ground to stand on. I think the term is baseless fanboyism.
Apart from 'command of the dark side' aspect, let us focus on the raw power and endurance aspects of Draahg.As did Sion, and yet despite that he was defeated by one who could not (the Jedi Exile) and grossly inferior in "raw power" to another who also lacked this power (Darth Traya), and inferior to many other Sith Lords who likewise lacked this ability. Draahg likewise was surpasses by the likes of Baras and Vengean, and the Wrath, all of whom did not possess this power.From Draahg himself:
"I've been gutted, bled dry, jettisoned into space. I survived and grew stronger."
Draahg have survived in situations that few can hope to cope with, throughout galactic history.
Emperor's Wrath literally had to slice off Draahg's head to kill him, nothing else was sufficient.
--
Dooku neither have raw power on par with that of Draahg and nor have the ability to resist Force Drain powers.
It is quite obvious that invincibilty and raw power to not directly correlate, do not pretend otherwise.
You need to admit the realistic possibility that there were other Sith Lords, in the Empire, besides Emperor Vitiate who surpassed Count Dooku in raw power and command of the dark side. Draahg seems to be one such, and so is Emperor's Wrath.On the contrary, you need to accept that not every other "powerful" Force User in the Sith Empire is superior to everyone outside the OR era. Malgus, Baras, Thanaton, Nox, the Wrath and Marr are the heavyweights of the TOR era, not Draagh. Fact is Dooku is one of the most powerful Force Users in galactic history, Draagh is not.
Learn 2 deal.
Wrath's dueling ability is implied to be unparalleled by virtue of Sith Warrior official SWTOR profile: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/sith-warriorThe statement is self contradicting, as if taken literally it would mean every Sith Warrior in the Sith Empire had unrivaled skill. Simply put its hyperbole, and not proof that the Wrath is superior to an individual who ultimately did not exist at the time.A Sith Warrior’s skills with a lightsaber are unrivaled.
Again, educate yourself on the ground realities of Dooku's lightsaber skills, and come back to me when you have comparable feats and accolades.
Originally posted by Selenial👆
How do we know Traya's was the first Jedi Purge? That's pretty cool.Either way, sorry I still won't believe it until it's confirmed. They ruined Traya almost as badly as they ruined revan, and unlike you Im not willing to accept the death of my favorite character just so I can wank her power more.
The Entity isn't worthy of the title Darth Traya. Period.
The worst part is, it probably was BioWare's intentions, and demonstrates how grossly they misunderstood her character.