Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Here is a Celestial reacting to the uber weapon that Hulk destroyed
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk243_05b.jpg.htmlThe Deviants are historically accurate with their assessments of the Celestials:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/03etern.jpg.htmlhttp://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/04etern.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/05etern.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/06etern.jpg.htmlThat's from their first appearance. Jesus. Imagine if I looked harder. Like when the Celestials almost made them extinct.
And it's not like we haven't seen actual super weapons before against the Celestials. The Destroyer which is blessed by every God, and was built to straight up kill the Celestials for instance.
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Thor_300-17.jpg.htmlHere it is farther amped by Odin and the life force of every Asgardian getting no sold and stopped mid swing:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Thor_300-28.jpg.htmlI trust I don't have to show it getting destroyed when it was claimed to be indestructible in the same showing?
For contrast, let's see how Hulk does against a vastly weaker version of the Destroyer:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_09b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_10a.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_11a.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_11b.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_14a.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Hulk461_14b.jpg.htmlHulk appears quite a bit weaker, no?
Here a no name Celestials beats the Darkwalker, showing it manhandling him at the end:
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20003-004.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20003-005.jpg.htmlAnd Hulk. Surely Hulk doesn't get backhanded out when it's not even looking at Hulk...
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20005-013.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20005-014.jpg.html
http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bigbran1/media/Cosmic/Savage%20Wolverine%20005-015.jpg.html
Lol...you posted an image of a Celestial walking up to a machine (that is built to destroy them) when Hulk has already destroyed it? Come on Bran. Don't understand why you posted the rest of those scans when it has nothing to do with the thread. Then you use one of Hulk lowest showings within the past 8 to 10 yrs to help your argument. One of the worst books ever. Come on Bran.
Originally posted by carver9Do you not know how to read? Gam watched the full power of the flame rise into the atmosphere after Hulk destroyed it and shrugged at it. This was a flame meant to challenge in your words "The entire Celestial Race" and it wasn't even worth anything to one. That's all.
Lol...you posted an image of a Celestial walking up to a machine (that is built to destroy them) when Hulk has already destroyed it? Come on Bran. Don't understand why you posted the rest of those scans when it has nothing to do with the thread. Then you use one of Hulk lowest showings within the past 8 to 10 yrs to help your argument. One of the worst books ever. Come on Bran.
The rest of the scans have as much to do with the argument as Hulk destroying something built to challenge and withstand "The Entire Celestial Race" does. The Deviants being boastful and getting swiftly put in their place. How is this not relevant to their construction? They simply do not know what it takes to stop a Celestial. This much is evident.
As well as common opponents. I'm not using completely untested against one of them feats. I'm using two opponents who they have in common. This would be the correct way to go about it, no?
Why is that even a low feat though? Do you maintain that Hulk should be a threat to a being that fought a Celestial for 3 days or something? What would your basis be for this I wonder? Surely it wouldn't loop back into "Hulk > the Celestial Race", and thus loop back into my scans?
And if you don't think a much more tried and tested object like the Destroyer is relevant to a random Deviant device with no prior qualifications, then you're out of your mind.
I know you like to simply pretend you can laugh away anything you don't like, but that's not going to work when you've already opened up the floodgates. You used a scan to try and say Hulk > Celestials. I am telling you with proof that that is not the case. "What does that have to do with anything?!" Gee I wonder.
I also like how you ignored DS' question of whether or not you think Hulk > Celestials.
Originally posted by h1a8
That Betty doesn't exist anymore. Hulk always has the potential to go WB.
So you're telling me that Betty will never ever ever become Red She Hulk ever again? Bold words, hehe.
Hulk going WBH was under very specific circumstances. To say that he always has this potential is like me saying Betty can always be rewritten (especially with Secret Wars etc) to do the same.
It amazes me how posters exaggerate to the point of lying with simple words such as 'vastly weaker'. See where Bran is wrong most is when he assumes Hulk has fixed strength. He post scans of Hulk being overpowered when Hulk is clearly not at his strongest. In HOTM it retconned Hulk to always be able to go WB. He doesn't do so because he would endanger many lives. So potentially Hulk is the physically strongest there is.
Originally posted by h1a8
It amazes me how posters exaggerate to the point of lying with simple words such as 'vastly weaker'. See where Bran is wrong most is when he assumes Hulk has fixed strength. He post scans of Hulk being overpowered when Hulk is clearly not at his strongest. In HOTM it retconned Hulk to always be able to go WB. He doesn't do so because he would endanger many lives. So potentially Hulk is the physically strongest there is.
HotM did NOT retcon Hulk to always be able to go WB.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Do you not know how to read? Gam watched the full power of the flame rise into the atmosphere after Hulk destroyed it and shrugged at it. This was a flame meant to challenge in your words "The entire Celestial Race" and it wasn't even worth anything to one. That's all.The rest of the scans have as much to do with the argument as Hulk destroying something built to challenge and withstand "The Entire Celestial Race" does. The Deviants being boastful and getting swiftly put in their place. How is this not relevant to their construction? They simply do not know what it takes to stop a Celestial. This much is evident.
As well as common opponents. I'm not using completely untested against one of them feats. I'm using two opponents who they have in common. This would be the correct way to go about it, no?
Why is that even a low feat though? Do you maintain that Hulk should be a threat to a being that fought a Celestial for 3 days or something? What would your basis be for this I wonder? Surely it wouldn't loop back into "Hulk > the Celestial Race", and thus loop back into my scans?
And if you don't think a much more tried and tested object like the Destroyer is relevant to a random Deviant device with no prior qualifications, then you're out of your mind.
I know you like to simply pretend you can laugh away anything you don't like, but that's not going to work when you've already opened up the floodgates. You used a scan to try and say Hulk > Celestials. I am telling you with proof that that is not the case. "What does that have to do with anything?!" Gee I wonder.
I also like how you ignored DS' question of whether or not you think Hulk > Celestials.
I thought Tyrannus enhanced the machine. Thought he played a part in it as well? Also, I'm not going through a long debate with you again. A freaking ape stalemated Hulk in the same comic he was slapped away in. The writer gave Hulk no favors during that story line. You can use it if you want too. Overall,I disagree with your post and could go pages breaking it down but I just don't feel like doing it today.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Betty was only capable of that feat because of the wish. Even if she became red she Hulk again then she would never be at that level without some specific plot device (a wish). If we don't use potential then Hulk is one of the weakest there is (from Banner to low base Hulk). Hulks strength is variable and not fixed. We should use potential. Lets not ruin the spirit of the thread with semantics. Otherwise this thread wood be a worthless discussion.
So you're telling me that Betty will never ever ever become Red She Hulk ever again? Bold words, hehe.Hulk going WBH was under very specific circumstances. To say that he always has this potential is like me saying Betty can always be rewritten (especially with Secret Wars etc) to do the same.
Ugh... h1 quotes.
Celestials punch a universe into a multiverse though. Curious how he copes with this... actually I'm not. Don't quote him again please
http://imgur.com/HWgswQz
Originally posted by DarkSaint85abstracts have no physical strength since they aren't material beings. Telekinesis is not physical strength. Going by feats then Hulk at his best is physically stronger than any single Celestial and all of Marvel chatacters. Unless you can show me a great that beats the WB feat.
Is Hulk stronger than the entire Celestial race, and is he stronger than a Celestial?Than the abstracts? Is he the strongest one there is in ALL of MArvel?
Y/n? Simple q. No need for long posts.
Originally posted by h1a8
Betty was only capable of that feat because of the wish. Even if she became red she Hulk again then she would never be at that level without some specific plot device (a wish). If we don't use potential then Hulk is one of the weakest there is (from Banner to low base Hulk). Hulks strength is variable and not fixed. We should use potential. Lets not ruin the spirit of the thread with semantics. Otherwise this thread wood be a worthless discussion.
Yes, and WBH was only that strong because of specific plot devices.H He does not become WBH because he stubbed his toe, or because Mjolnir fell on his head, or because Spiderman told one too many 'yo mama' jokes. It took a storyline years in the making, from Planet Hulk through to WWH than to HotM, to establish the Hulk being that angry. Before that, Hulk was never at that level. Since then, he hasn't been at that level, either. Whether in canon, or non-canon stories.
This isn't just worthless semantics, either. At his strongest, he was matched by Betty. Since then, Betty has not been at those levels - but neither has Hulk.
Flash has outraced Death. He has outraced his own shadow. He has outraced himself.
Has Hulk overpowered abstracts? Has he been stronger than himself?
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftThat wasn't a pure physical strength feat. Obviously, the Celestial used some type of cosmic ability to casuate with space (make it tangible), otherwise they would have been punching through emptiness without hitting anything. Thus it was plot device. Anyway, it's possible that they performed the bulk of the feat using their powers (not stength) since 'will' can apply to that as well.
Ugh... h1 quotes.Celestials punch a universe into a multiverse though. Curious how he copes with this... actually I'm not. Don't quote him again please
http://imgur.com/HWgswQz
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Then why did the comic painstakingly talk about Hulk always holding back in comparison to him not now (WB mode)? Why do we see him able to go WB at any given time (straight from Banner) at later times?
Yes, and WBH was only that strong because of specific plot devices.H He does not become WBH because he stubbed his toe, or because Mjolnir fell on his head, or because Spiderman told one too many 'yo mama' jokes. It took a storyline years in the making, from Planet Hulk through to WWH than to HotM, to establish the Hulk being that angry. Before that, Hulk was never at that level. Since then, he hasn't been at that level, either. Whether in canon, or non-canon stories.This isn't just worthless semantics, either. At his strongest, he was matched by Betty. Since then, Betty has not been at those levels - but neither has Hulk.
Flash has outraced Death. He has outraced his own shadow. He has outraced himself.
Has Hulk overpowered abstracts? Has he been stronger than himself?
I'll change my argument to be more clear.
Hulk possess the ability to go WB at any given moment. Anger has nothing to do with it.
Red she Hulk doesn't exist. Semantics are irrelevant since i can say that potentially flash isn't the fastest because a writer can one day create a character even faster or just as fast. That's not constructive to the spirit. Let's focus on the spirit.
Originally posted by carver9
@DarksaintFlash hasn't been at those levels either anymore (before the reboot). Hulk has probably went World Breaker more times than Flash has had showings like that.
Sweet, you deign to cross my blade once more. En garde! I shall climb once more into the Carvbuster. It is not as advanced as Bran's, being a shittier model, but it will do.
A: reboot, preboot, post - it does not matter. OP specifically said all are admissible.
B: Flash did not need any external events making him angrier, or faster. He just ran faster than before. In other words, he doesn't need to see Linda and unborn child killed by a bomb that he believes was planted by the JLA, only to find out it was actually planted by Kyle, then transported to a magical world where he can give in to this and run as fast as he can. No. He just runs.
C: You want to go toe to toe with me on stupid Flash feats vs WBH instances? Sure thing.
D: Even after all this - Betty was his equal. So no, he wouldn't be the strongest one there is, as World Breaker Betty would also be at this level.
Originally posted by carver9Would it matter if Tyrannus did? Tyrannus knows nothing of the Celestials. Any addition from him would be meaningless. Not that I think he added anything. Not that I care to check.
I thought Tyrannus enhanced the machine. Thought he played a part in it as well? Also, I'm not going through a long debate with you again. A freaking ape stalemated Hulk in the same comic he was slapped away in. The writer gave Hulk no favors during that story line. You can use it if you want too. Overall,I disagree with your post and could go pages breaking it down but I just don't feel like doing it today.
What, you mean the same apes that were able to inflict this much damage to Wolverine and his adamantium skeleton and how it impossibly holds together in 5 ish hits?
You could go pages breaking my post down now? You know for a fact you got shit carver. 😬
You thought hey, people are questioning whether Hulk is above Celestials or not... now's my chance to show em all!
And then that fell flat on your face, and you got **** all. I'd take your false concession over your pretending.
