Originally posted by VengeanceGOD
Interesting new idea I had-Sidious/Dooku had nothing to do with ordering the clones, and Syfo-Dias simply ordered them out of a desire to do good for the republic. However, Dooku heard about it and hired Jango to kill him and be the clone model before Syfo-Dias could get back to Coruscant and tell anyone.
Qui-Gon would've, if he'd thought it was necessary. Not to mention that Syfo-Dias was a member of the Jedi Council (according to the Kaminoans, anyway.). However, if he did have authorization, that would explain the look Yoda and Mace gave each other. Perhaps they had given the authorization for the clone troops, and then when Syfo was killed, they assumed the order had not been placed?
the Jedi promote peace. It is completely against their order to have ordered an army. And at the time they were ordered, it wasn't even needed. they had no viable indication for a coming war. that just wouldn't happen. the most plausible is Dooku, buts its not as though Palpatine is not without other agents. If its not Dooku, then it doesn't really matter, it just needs to be explained which of his lackeys it was. Him going on his own isn't impossible, I doubt the Kaminoans keep up on Republic politics. The flaw there is that Palpatine would be gone for a prolonged period of time. And we get the feeling from 1 and 2 that Sidious never leaves Coruscant, obviously because of his alter egos itinerary preventing it. as such I doubt he'd trust it to a hired help, Dooku is the most logical choice.
Does anybody think that Dooku and Qui-Gon were working together? Maybe behind the scenes? The Count seemed to have a liking for Qui-Gon, or at least seemed to think he'd understand some of his motives. If Dooku placed the order for the clone army under an alias did he do it before he left the Jedi or after? If it was after then someone else probably erased the Kamino records from the archives. I don't figure they just let Dooku waltz in and have a go at the place...
Star Wars
I have Watched the movie several times and listened hard. It was Qui-Gonn who ordered it he was using the name "Sypho-Dias" at the time and knew a war was going to happen and therefore ordered the clone army Using the name "Sypho-Dias" and the republic didn't know about his alias and they did'nt give him permission to do such a thing. and it couldn't have been Dooku because Obi-Wan says "Jedi Master Sypho-Dias died almost ten years ago and Dooku and Palpatine are still alive aren't they? Palpatine is also Darth Sidious so why would he order the army? I'm waiting for answers people!
[url]Hurry Up I'm waiting for answers!!!!!!!!!http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/starwars.gif
yeah Jango, that's just plain crazy. Jinn may disagree with the Council now and again, but he's surely not for this sort of chaos that Dooku has brought. He would not side with him. He was way to wise and intelligent. Just cause he likes to follow his own code/rules hardly makes him a possible separatist sympathizer!
As for why Sidious would order the army, let me explain again.
Republics, and democracy, are at their weakest during times of war. For example, look at the USA and the crap that's been allowed to happen in the name of the "War on Terror." (The Patriot Act and all the liberties that trampled on is a GREAT example.) Even everyone's favorite president, Abe Lincoln, abused civil liberties during the Civil War. Sidious wants the galaxy to be at war so they'll look for a strong leader-that way it'll make it that much easier for him to take over.
Re: Star Wars
Originally posted by Jango
I have Watched the movie several times and listened hard. It was Qui-Gonn who ordered it he was using the name "Sypho-Dias" at the time and knew a war was going to happen and therefore ordered the clone army Using the name "Sypho-Dias" and the republic didn't know about his alias and they did'nt give him permission to do such a thing. and it couldn't have been Dooku because Obi-Wan says "Jedi Master Sypho-Dias died almost ten years ago and Dooku and Palpatine are still alive aren't they? Palpatine is also Darth Sidious so why would he order the army? I'm waiting for answers people!
[url]Hurry Up I'm waiting for answers!!!!!!!!!http://www.killermovies.com/forums/images/moresmilies/starwars.gif
and can you please say on what you base yourself? cause with what you write, if I change QGJ to Watto, it can be true as well
Palpatine may not have ordered the clones himself but I bet he was the one who wanted it done. He was WAY too pleased about the whole deal, and seemed to know it was coming, to not have had anything to do with it. When Palpatine takes over completely, and what is now the Republic becomes the Empire, he already has an army. He's way to high profile a figure to just go sneaking around ordering clones and such. Dooku is probably the one who went to Kamino and placed the actual order, with Jango Fett at his side. It stands to reason that, since Fett was working for Dooku during AOTC, and he was the model for the clones themselves, Dooku was the one posing as Sypho-Dias...
of course he was the one who wanted it done! he's the one who wants to rule the universe! he's the phantom menace, he's the sith lord!
well, it would fit if Jango really didn't care about it all, cause he was "recruited by a man named Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden", while the order came from "master syfo-dyas"
here's the simpilest way to put it, Palpatine is laying out events like that kid in ET laid out Resses Pieces. The galaxy needs a conflict for a strong leader to take over like yerrsot said. So he hands them a rebellion in the form of the separatists. they gobble it up, accepting it as a simple uprising thats getting out of hand. they start looking for an army, he hands them an army. they want victory, he hands them victory. he's letting them walk there own path into an Empire. for when the cry of the proles rises in the Senate, demanding something to stop this outrage from ever happening again, he hands them his New Order. when they want to take it out on someone, he'll hand them the jedi, the alleged "guardians" who weren't all that quick to stop Dooku because he was one of there own. That's what all of this is in as simple of terms as i can explain.
Originally posted by finti
why should dooku need to hire Jango to kill him when he could do it himself
Four reasons why I think this:
1) We know Jango is skilled at killing Jedi, as we saw him kill a Jedi at close range during the Battle of Geonosis. He blasted him before the Jedi could even block one blaster bolt, which is not something we've ever seen before.
2) We have never seen Dooku use a blaster, nor does it seem in his character to do so. So if Dooku killed someone, they'd have lightsaber wounds, therefore giving himself away to the council.
3) Dooku doesn't seem the type to ever get his hands dirty. Even in AOTC, he only fought the three Jedi because he was trapped in his hangar with no way out and no way to his ship. Otherwise, he tried to run, had Jango kill people, even tried to turn Obi-wan to his cause rather than just fight him. It seems like he would hire Jango rather than kill Dias himself.
4) Sidious is a megalomaniacal villain. He LOVES to manipulate people. Why on earth would he miss a chance to manipulate Syfo-Dias into ordering the clones? Blaming it on Syfo-Dias seems, again, out of his character. Not to mention the cloners on Kamino, aren't part of the republic. They'd probably take the job from Dooku just as well as from Syfo. So why give them a lie?
And in response to your "it's too complicated" argument, well, the Star Wars universe has NEVER been simple. Simple is "Yeah, Darth Vader killed your father. Now go kill him." Complex is "Darth Vader IS your father, and you have to redeem him instead of taking the easy way and killing him."
That number 1 doesn't track at all- we see other Jedi totally capable of blocking his bolts. That was either a lucky shot or that Jedi simply wasn't much good in combat. Or, more to the point, it was just something the filmmakers did not go into much detail about. The general idea that Jango was some sort of super-Jedi killer is not really shown by that one bit compared to everything else we see.
And Vader being Luke's father wasn't complex; the whole Original Trilogy was very simple indeed and all the better for it.
Always look for a simple answer.