Originally posted by Galan007That's filler.
In the manga, evildoers don't get to keep their bodies and watch current events on a big screen in Hell when they die. Instead, they are removed from their bodies entirely, and their souls are immediately sent for purification:
http://i.imgur.com/ckXpWKk.jpgThat is also what happened with Pure Buu. When he was killed by the Genki Dama, his soul was immediately purified, and he was reborn as Uub.
You know I realized this only makes it much worse for Frieza.
If Frieza only knew about Goku's SSJ1 form, then he should have been scared sh*tless after their initial battle.
This is because Goku was beating him in his base form, and from Frieza's past experience he will know that if Goku went SSJ1, his power would increase tremendously, far more than Frieza's own Golden form.
SSJ1 transformation = 50x
Golden Transformation is no where near that. I'd say between 2x to 5x.
Originally posted by Time-ImmemorialWhen Golden Freeza what at his peak, he was demonstrably superior to BSSJG Goku. srsly
"demonstrably superior to SSJGSSJ Goku" What? lolGoku was toying with him...
Originally posted by Time-ImmemorialThis, again, means nothing in relation to where Freeza stands in comparison to Beerus. Godly ki cannot be sensed(not even by Goku), therefore Freeza had NO definitive means through which to gauge his power against Beerus'. The reason Freeza was 'afraid' of Beerus was purely psychological--his entire life it had been ingrained in his mind to fear Beerus. It was a natural reaction.
This, he said shaking in his skin "I hope you will not interfere"
Originally posted by PlacidityFreeza went into his battle with Goku knowing that he had killed Majin Buu--so he was at least prepared for Buu-level++ power.
You know I realized this only makes it much worse for Frieza.If Frieza only knew about Goku's SSJ1 form, then he should have been scared sh*tless after their initial battle.
This is because Goku was beating him in his base form, and from Frieza's past experience he will know that if Goku went SSJ1, his power would increase tremendously, far more than Frieza's own Golden form.
SSJ1 transformation = 50x
Originally posted by PlacidityFreeza's Golden form, you mean? Hard to say.
Golden Transformation is no where near that. I'd say between 2x to 5x.
In his 4th form(post-training), Freeza was able to put up a fight against base Goku, but Goku was still in control the entire time. When Freeza began using his Golden form, however, he became superior to even BSSJG Goku(while at full power.)
However, according to the official Jap-dub/translation, BSSJG doesn't really glean a huge power increase over SSJG...
Goku(after transforming): "It's hard to explain, but it's basically a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God."
So it's not necessarily granting loads more power than SSJG--just channeling and using it better(SSJG had a distinct time limit, for example, while BSSJG does not.) But since Goku and Vegeta have been training under Whis since the events of BoG, and the battle itself is touted as "surpassing gods", I'm sure they've become stronger than Goku was as a SSJG in Battle of Gods. I'd have them each around an 8.5, and peak Golden Freeza around a 9.0(relative to Beerus' 10.)
We also know that after Goku absorbed the Godly ki into his person during BoG, his base form was weaker than SSJG, but not by much(as noted by Beerus.) So if SSJG Goku=6, then base Goku would probably be around a 5.5. So yeah, we aren't dealing with huge multipliers here.
It would look like this:
Whis>>Beerus~BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta>Golden Freeza(peak)>BSSJG Goku=BSSJG Vegeta>SSJG Goku>base Goku=base Vegeta>4th form Freeza(post-training)>>>everything before.
OR
Whis=15
Beerus=10
BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta=10
Golden Freeza(peak)=9.0
BSSJG Goku/Vegeta=8.5(each)
SSJG Goku(BoG)=6.0
Base Goku/Vegeta(RoF)=5.5(each)
4th form Freeza(post-training)=4.5
*Some of those are just rough estimates, btw. They are certainly subject to interpretation/change. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
When Golden Freeza what at his peak, he was demonstrably superior to BSSJG Goku. srslyThis, again, means nothing in relation to where Freeza stands in comparison to Beerus. Godly ki cannot be sensed(not even by Goku), therefore Freeza had NO definitive means through which to gauge his power against Beerus'. The reason Freeza was 'afraid' of Beerus was purely psychological--his entire life it had been ingrained in his mind to fear Beerus. It was a natural reaction.
Bro Bills would have trounced freeza like a pile of shit. What gives you any inclination otherwise to think any different?
Let's see Golden Freeza is more of a Super Saiyan mode than any of the SSJG forms seen previously so that means we can reasonably assume it puts a strain on the body, draining Freeza's stamina. Goku and Gohan got around that strain by simply staying SSJ for innocuous things like picnics and rest. If Freeza did something like that with Golden Mode then he would probably come very close to Beerus in power, potentially even surpassing him.
But Freeza is more likely to go the Super Vegeta route rather than Goku's "relax as a SSJ" mode. Freeza probably wouldn't consider staying in the mode for everyone to see and if he did further training it would be the stuff he had done in the 4 months. I'm not sure how strong he'd become in that case but my gut tells me he'd still be below Beerus.
My thoughts and such.
Originally posted by Time-ImmemorialLast time I'm saying this...
I'm not trolling? Why would I troll you? But please report me for asking questions. I like be reprimanded for absolutely nothing.I don't see how Freeza posed any threat to Goku much less Bills.
Again, when Golden Freeza was at his peak, he was demonstrably superior to BSSJG Goku. It was only when the rapid ki-consumption of Freeza's new form began to tax him(because he hadn't yet mastered it) that BSSJG Goku gained the upper hand. However, in this thread we are assuming that Freeza has mastered his Golden form, thus has overcome its stamina issues. ie. Golden Freeza will have no problem maintaining his full-power in this battle.
Again, Whis confirmed that BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta can match Beerus if they fight together. This means they must be quite close to Beerus' level individually, otherwise they'd still get stomped effortlessly(that's how DBZ works.)
Again, we know that BSSJG Goku is fairly close to Beerus' level, but not so close as to match him alone. We also know that full-power Golden Freeza>BSSJG Goku. Thus, logic dictates that Golden Freeza would be really close to Beerus' level by proxy.
Again, Freeza may not win, but saying things like: "Bills would have trounced freeza like a pile of shit" is absolutely idiotic, given what we know. So yeah, if you still choose to ignore said evidence in favor of your baseless opinions, then you are trolling, and you will be reported as such. 🙂
Ah that makes sense, also I have to admit, I did not read this post below.
Originally posted by Galan007
Freeza went into his battle with Goku knowing that he had killed Majin Buu--so he was at least prepared for Buu-level++ power.Freeza's Golden form, you mean? Hard to say.
In his 4th form(post-training), Freeza was able to put up a fight against base Goku, but Goku was still in control the entire time. When Freeza began using his Golden form, however, he became superior to even BSSJG Goku(while at full power.)
However, according to the official Jap-dub/translation, BSSJG doesn't really glean a huge power increase over SSJG...
Goku(after transforming): "It's hard to explain, but it's basically a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God."So it's not necessarily granting loads more power than SSJG--just channeling and using it better(SSJG had a distinct time limit, for example, while BSSJG does not.) But since Goku and Vegeta have been training under Whis since the events of BoG, and the battle itself is touted as "surpassing gods", I'm sure they've become stronger than Goku was as a SSJG in Battle of Gods. I'd have them each around an 8.5, and peak Golden Freeza around a 9.0(relative to Beerus' 10.)
We also know that after Goku absorbed the Godly ki into his person during BoG, his base form was weaker than SSJG, but not by much(as noted by Beerus.) So if SSJG Goku=6, then base Goku would probably be around a 5.5. So yeah, we aren't dealing with huge multipliers here.
It would look like this:
Whis>>Beerus~BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta>Golden Freeza(peak)>BSSJG Goku=BSSJG Vegeta>SSJG Goku>base Goku=base Vegeta>4th form Freeza(post-training)>>>everything before.OR
Whis=15
Beerus=10
BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta=10
Golden Freeza(peak)=9.0
BSSJG Goku/Vegeta=8.5(each)
SSJG Goku(BoG)=6.0
Base Goku/Vegeta(RoF)=5.5(each)
4th form Freeza(post-training)=4.5*Some of those are just rough estimates, btw. They are certainly subject to interpretation/change. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
*Note
According to BoG, Freeza and Beerus had personally met years prior:
Beerus: "All that said, I'm no fan of Freeza's either... If we cross paths again, I'll gladly wipe the entitled bugger out."So that explains how Freeza/Cold knew about Beerus.
Yes... I know. 🤨 But thanks for the info.
Originally posted by Galan007
As for Buu: he has been rampaging across the universe since time immemorial. It only makes sense that he'd gain quite a reputation over that time. Heck, Beerus may have even mentioned Buu to Freeza/Cold at some point. Something like: "What, you think your clan is something special? Ha! You're not even half as strong as that Majin Buu creature the Kaioshin had so much trouble dealing with."srug
I guess its possible. Sounds a little fanfic though.
See I just read the last volume the other week and remember seeing a planet with dead little frieza-like creatures. Its possible Buu is the reason there is only a few of them left. I do like the theory. 😄
Hmm I always thought Goku was superior to Frieza. Frieza just used wayy more of his power at once because he is a noob at his new form. Goku knew this and took advantage by pulling the good ole Muhammad Ali tactic on him.
Just because Frieza seemed superior in the beginning moments does no automatically mean he was stronger. Just more foolish/careless with his power output.
imo
It wasn't just the beginning moments... It was a good chunk of the battle. Aside from that that, Beerus wondered why Goku AND Vegeta didn't just team up and destroy him--which tells us that Goku could NOT have beaten peak Freeza alone. Furthermore, it was never stated that Goku was holding back.
So yeah, per the evidence at hand, peak Freeza was legitimately superior. 👆
Not that I recall. What was stated is that Freeza wasn't yet accustomed to his new form, thus was being rapidly depleted by its ki-consumption.
Anyway, here are a few excerpts from the battle, which tell us that Freeza was solidly commanding the fight while he was at his peak:
"Goku takes his stance and the battle begins once again in earnest, being much more evenly matched than before. Goku rushes at Freeza, but he counters, punching Goku hard in the gut and then sending him crashing into a cliff with a punch. Freeza quickly fires a barrage of ki blasts into the cliff, blowing everything up. Goku slowly rises up out of the smoke without a scratch, and Freeza smirks. Goku again rushes at Freeza, but just as he's about to hit Freeza he vanishes, and then reappears behind him, hammer dropping him straight into the water. Freeza, completely enraged, bursts out of the water and the two exchange a volley of attacks. At points, Freeza appears to be controlling the terms of the battle, as he knocks Goku around repeatedly."[...]
"Freeza is now thoroughly manhandling Goku, who is again sent crashing into the ground. He gets up, his dōgi now in tatters, and tries to catch his breath. "Man, I've had it... I'm kinda gettin' my butt kicked..." He compliments how amazing Freeza is, to have come so far when it took him so long to get this strong. Freeza is tickled by this, but says it won't do him any good to beg for mercy."
Originally posted by Galan007
Whis=15
Beerus=10
BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta=10
Golden Freeza(peak)=9.0
BSSJG Goku/Vegeta=8.5(each)
SSJG Goku(BoG)=6.0
Base Goku/Vegeta(RoF)=5.5(each)
4th form Freeza(post-training)=4.5*Some of those are just rough estimates, btw. They are certainly subject to interpretation/change. 👆
Um... What?
Base Goku and Vegeta are a 5.5 next to Bills's 10, to you?
That would make them both more than half as strong as him. That would literally make Goku capable of beating Bills with Kaioken X2.
The other forms of Goku and Vegeta, and especially Frieza, don't even belong on that scale. Bills is literally thousands of times stronger than them. They don't even come close to him, until the god forms come into play.
Base Goku would be like... a 0.025, if Bills was a 10, lol.
"lol", indeed.
In BoG, Beerus outright told Goku that his power didn't decrease by much when he reverted from SSJG to base--that's why he was still able to put up a damn good fight against 70% Beerus in his base level... And he has obviously become even more powerful since BoG, thanks to his training from Whis.
So yeah, if SSJG Goku was a 6.0 in BoG, there's no reason why base Goku wouldn't be at least a 5.5 by the time of RoF.
It wouldn't hurt for you to actually know something about the material you're commenting on, before you comment on it. 👆
