Golden Freeza vs. Beerus

Originally posted by Galan007
"lol", indeed.

In BoG, Beerus outright told Goku that his power didn't decrease by much when he reverted from SSJG to base--that's why he was still able to put up a damn good fight against 70% Beerus in his base level... And he has obviously become even more powerful since BoG, thanks to his training from Whis.

So yeah, if SSJG Goku was a 6.0 in BoG, there's no reason why base Goku wouldn't be at least a 5.5 by the time of RoF.

It wouldn't hurt for you to actually know something about the material you're commenting on, before you comment on it. 👆

#gottem

Beerus stomps.

Beerus and Whis said Goku + Vegeta could beat Golden Freeza without effort.

Originally posted by Galan007
"lol", indeed.

In BoG, Beerus outright told Goku that his power didn't decrease by much when he reverted from SSJG to base--that's why he was still able to put up a damn good fight against 70% Beerus in his base level... And he has obviously become even more powerful since BoG, thanks to his training from Whis.

So yeah, if SSJG Goku was a 6.0 in BoG, there's no reason why base Goku wouldn't be at least a 5.5 by the time of RoF.

It wouldn't hurt for you to actually know something about the material you're commenting on, before you comment on it. 👆

I don't think you're getting this here.

SSJ1 is a 50X boost to base.

If you took 5.5, and multiplied it by 50, you'd end up with a 275, meaning that Goku was 27.5 times stronger than Bills as a SSJ1, in RoF. This... was clearly not the case. 😕

And all we know is that Bills used a maximum of 70% in his entire fight with Goku. It would be outright silly to assume that he was somehow equally as strong in base as he was in SSJG. That would mean that any of his SSJ forms would stomp Bills.

The only difference was that Goku's body had absorbed some godly ki from his own transformation, which in turn made him capable of fighting Bills in ANY form. It didn't make him any stronger or weaker, just capable of using godly ki, in addition to his regular ki.

While there is that massive whole in your argument though, there is also the one in mine, which has a whole because Goku in base still fought on par with Bills, and didn't just speedblitz him, and one-shot him as a SSJ1.

It's honestly just PIS, which is there because Toriyama probably has Alzheimer's. It's really nothing to argue about in the first place, since the power scaling in the new material is a thousand times worse than GT.

You're assuming the base modifiers apply to someone with godly ki the same way they apply to normal Saiyans.

If it worked the way you're describing then Goku would have only needed to go SSJ2 or 3 to beat Beerus in the last movie since those modifiers applied to Goku's 6 would trump Beerus's 10. That wasn't the case so clearly things work differently with godly ki.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
You're assuming the base modifiers apply to someone with godly ki the same way they apply to normal Saiyans.

If it worked the way you're describing then Goku would have only needed to go SSJ2 or 3 to beat Beerus in the last movie since those modifiers applied to Goku's 6 would trump Beerus's 10. That wasn't the case so clearly things work differently with godly ki.

Agreed, also, I think someones mom was abused by trying to teach her science. Hence why her son has a hard time.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
You're assuming the base modifiers apply to someone with godly ki the same way they apply to normal Saiyans.

If it worked the way you're describing then Goku would have only needed to go SSJ2 or 3 to beat Beerus in the last movie since those modifiers applied to Goku's 6 would trump Beerus's 10. That wasn't the case so clearly things work differently with godly ki.

Again: BSSJG is AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TRANSFORMATION THEN WE'VE EVER SEEN BEFORE. Goku merely likened it to a regular SSJ in order to make it easier to explain to Freeza. However, the previous SSJ multipliers are inconsequential--BSSJG=/=SSJ. srsly

Goku stated that BSSJG simply took him from base, back up to SSJG-level power... And his base already isn't that much weaker than SSJG to begin with. Even accounting for the increase he logically gained by training with Whis, we're still probably dealing with less than a 2x increase.

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly. 👆

Again: BSSJG is AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TRANSFORMATION THEN WE'VE EVER SEEN BEFORE. Goku merely likened it to a regular SSJ in order to make it easier to explain to Freeza. However, the previous SSJ multipliers are inconsequential--BSSJG=/=SSJ. srsly

Goku stated that BSSJG simply took him from base, back up to SSJG-level power... And his base already isn't that much weaker than SSJG to begin with. Even accounting for the increase he logically gained by training with Whis, we're still probably dealing with less than a 2x increase.

Gogeta will never agree with you but clearly Galan>random crap and shit>gogeta.

Beerus will win, rather assuredly.

It is revealed that Goku and Vegata, well into Goku's battle with Gold Freeza, already knew Freeza didn't have proper control over his power. Thus, anything that occurred during this battle could be called into question. So, did Freeza really have the upper hand or was Goku simply making the most of his moment; something he has done time and time again. With this information, there's no definitive reason to place Gold Freeza with full control, over Goku or Vegeta, let alone, close to Beerus. Could he defeat Goku? Maybe. Maybe a battle would occur where Goku, half way through it, didn't already know he was going to win.

It also appears Freeza, in the film, knew Beerus would destroy him, as Beerus tells Freeza and Goku to move their fight further away and they do. Freeza seems to revere Beerus and I doubt control over a form he has already attained will be a big enough to have him engage in a melee with Beerus, where Freeza's demise isn't 100% assured.

Goku: "Man, I've had it... I'm kinda gettin' my butt kicked..." Given that statement, there is no reason to assume that Freeza wasn't legitimately controlling the battle until he began to weaken.

As for Freeza's reaction to Beerus: I mentioned earlier why that doesn't mean anything in regard to the difference in power between them.

Goku also commended Vegeta for beating him up in the Buu Saga.

Obviously, Freeza's reaction to Beerus isn't the only evidence that Freeza will be destroyed. If Freeza's new form is having fits vs Goku and Goku & Vegeta are only 'implied' to be above 70% Beerus, this means Freeza has to make up at least 29%, almost a 3rd of Beerus' power. Given all of this, his reaction is part of a case that he is aware of his inferiority.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
Goku also commended Vegeta for beating him up in the Buu Saga.

Obviously, Freeza's reaction to Beerus isn't the only evidence that Freeza will be destroyed. If Freeza's new form is having fits vs Goku and Goku & Vegeta are only 'implied' to be above 70% Beerus, this means Freeza has to make up at least 29%, almost a 3rd of Beerus' power. Given all of this, his reaction is part of a case that he is aware of his inferiority.

As I've said multiple times: Whis confirmed that BSSJG Goku+BSSJG Vegeta can match 100% Beerus if they fight together. This means they must be fairly close to Beerus' level individually, otherwise they'd still get stomped effortlessly(that's how DBZ works--if you're significantly weaker than your opponent, numbers are inconsequential.) We also know that full-power Golden Freeza>BSSJG Goku. Thus, logic dictates that full-power Golden Freeza would be pretty close to Beerus' level by proxy.

Freeza being 'afraid' of Beerus means absolutely nothing in regard to power. Godly ki cannot be sensed/read(not even by Goku, who actually has Godly ki), therefore Freeza had NO definitive means through which to accurately compare his power to Beerus'. His reaction upon seeing Beerus was purely psychological--his entire life it had been ingrained in his mind to fear Beerus. Seeing him for the first time in decadeS is obviously going to bring back some old memories.

Anyway, based on what we know: Beerus would likely win, but it would logically not be a stomp.

We also know for a fact that Goku & Vegeta had known Freeza’s weakness well into the fight. And what proof is there that Goku was “going all-out”? If I’m not mistaken; Goku, blue haired and all, was caught off guard and injured by a blaster. I don’t think Goku took the fight as seriously as he could have.

Goku was already capable of making Beerus use 70% of his power, supposedly. Adding Vegeta might tip the scales. They are stronger than they were before, but how much stronger is anyone’s guess, maybe they would cause Beerus to use 73% of his power, who really knows? And in Dragon Ball, a slight edge in power is the difference between total victory and absolute failure. Yes, Freeza is stronger than Goku in BoG, but is he close to Beerus or closer to Beerus than Goku was? Goku in BoG was said to be around 70% of Beerus, yet and still, when training with Whis, Goku states Beerus could have destroyed Vegeta and him in a single blast, at the same time. This opens the door to even more speculation about where these characters stand against Beerus and how far these Godly upgrades increase. The way the old DBZ power-ups worked appears to be a thing of the past. There just wasn’t enough in the film to assume so much. Maybe the anime will bring about more details.

Beerus VS Freeza may not be a stomp, but using a considerable amount of his power, he could end Freeza very quickly. I see no reason on why that isn’t the case, considering the amount of ground he would need to make in the game of precentages.

The burden of proof falls on the one claiming Goku was holding back in some manner because nowhere in the fight was it implied he was doing so

I'd think it's rather stupid for Goku to say he's losing to Freeza if he were holding back, and Goku was only off-guard at that particular moment since Freeza was already burned out and beaten

This makes me think that the RSSG was a form beyond BSSG. Beerus was even confused on how Goku managed to stop his final attack.

I still dont understand how that form was a complete body change yet the BSSG does not yield the same look at all?

If BSSG was weaker than RSSG it would make sense why Beerus is not threatened by Frieza/Goku/Vegeta at all

just a thought ha

But the same Whis, stated that Goku + Vegeta would beat Golden Freeza without much effort if they fighted togheter.

I think the hardest it can be for Bills is medium difficulty.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
And what proof is there that Goku was “going all-out”?

The burden of proof falls on YOU to prove that Goku WAS holding back, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Good luck.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
If I’m not mistaken; Goku, blue haired and all, was caught off guard and injured by a blaster. I don’t think Goku took the fight as seriously as he could have.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
Beerus VS Freeza may not be a stomp, but using a considerable amount of his power, he could end Freeza very quickly..

Originally posted by Crimson Dragoon
The burden of proof falls on the one claiming Goku was holding back in some manner because nowhere in the fight was it implied he was doing so

I'd think it's rather stupid for Goku to say he's losing to Freeza if he were holding back, and Goku was only off-guard at that particular moment since Freeza was already burned out and beaten

Wether or not Goku was or wasn't holding back is not the main focus. As no where is it implied that he was or wasn't, this should not be a main point of focus. He simply said that Goku was "going all out" and I simply recall battles were Goku didn't feel like it was okay to let his gaurd down.

Goku never said he was weaker than Freeza, only that to he was "kinda getting his butt kicked" while smiling at that fact. He's had tough stretches in fights before. This is not enough evidence to assume Freeza can beat Goku.

Originally posted by U need Leonard
Goku never said he was weaker than Freeza, only that to he was "kinda getting his butt kicked" while smiling at that fact. He's had tough stretches in fights before. This is not enough evidence to assume Freeza can beat Goku.

Freeza was SHOWN controlling the battle. Goku SAID he was getting beaten by Freeza. We were NEVER given a reason to assume that Goku was using anything but his FULL power.

...Yet that doesn't suffice as evidence that peak Golden Freeza>BSSJG Goku, iyo? You DO know how this whole 'debating thing' works, right?

My above statement can also be applied to the other posts directed at me, as well.