Superman(Reeves) vs MCU, DCCU, Arrowverse, XMCU, Star Wars and Hancock

Started by FrothByte20 pages

Originally posted by juggerman
Please:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t617214.html

Just want to say that even though I don't agree with your stance on this argument, I appreciate how calm you've been throughout the arguments. Wish more people could debate like you.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Why is it giving him too much credit to affect a being which has shown to have a very similar mind to humans (emotions, pain, anger, sadness, etc.)?

Because you are assume he'll have an affect against a mind he has no experience with. Not just Supes' specifically. I mean a mind not like a human's.

Originally posted by Silent Master
This thread is about Superman and not God from Bruce Almighty.

Keeping this on topic, do you believe Superman is immune/resistant to TP from Scarlet Witch or Jedi?

I already stated I believe SW can affect him. Jedi and Sith should be able to as well IMO as they all have showings against alien beings

Originally posted by FrothByte
Just want to say that even though I don't agree with your stance on this argument, I appreciate how calm you've been throughout the arguments. Wish more people could debate like you.

Thank you. 👆

Originally posted by juggerman
I already stated I believe SW can affect him. Jedi and Sith should be able to as well IMO as they all have showings against alien beings

IOW your entire basis for Prof X not being able to effect him boils down to "there are no aliens in the X-men universe".

Originally posted by Silent Master
IOW your entire basis for Prof X not being able to effect him boils down to "there are no aliens in the X-men universe".

Sort of I guess. I mean there are no Kryptonians in the Watchmen verse yet an argument for Superman vs Doc is Doc never showed power over something so durable. Well how was he supposed to? If that stance is fair game there why is it not here? Why is X different?

Originally posted by juggerman
Sort of I guess. I mean there are no Kryptonians in the Watchmen verse yet an argument for Superman vs Doc is Doc never showed power over something so durable. Well how was he supposed to? If that stance is fair game there why is it not here? Why is X different?

You're aware that per feats Prof X's TP is more powerful than Scarlet Witch or the Jedi's, right?

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're aware that per feats Prof X's TP is more powerful than Scarlet Witch or the Jedi's, right?

It's different too

Originally posted by juggerman
It's different too

So you admit that by feats Prof X's TP is more powerful, good.

Now, how is their TP different?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So you admit that by feats Prof X's TP is more powerful, good.

Now, how is their TP different?

Scarlet Witch just gives visions that feed off of fear I think. She doesn't control people. Different

Originally posted by juggerman
Scarlet Witch just gives visions that feed off of fear I think. She doesn't control people. Different

Now you're just splitting hairs, controlling people and giving them visions both require the TP user to effect the target's mind and what about the Jedi, who can control people?

Originally posted by juggerman
Sort of I guess. I mean there are no Kryptonians in the Watchmen verse yet an argument for Superman vs Doc is Doc never showed power over something so durable. Well how was he supposed to? If that stance is fair game there why is it not here? Why is X different?

Becauese one needs to determine if something can affect something with possible resistance to an ability (matter manip vs durability) else it becomes a no limits fallacy.

What possible resistance to TP does Superman have due to his alien biology?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Now you're just splitting hairs, controlling people and giving them visions both require the TP user to effect the target's mind and what about the Jedi, who can control people?

I'm not splitting hairs. I'm not sure I'd call her power TP at all since it doesn't seem like she can read minds or control them. She senses fear and can give visions.

I'm not sure what the explanation of the Jedi/Sith is but yeah it seems like lower level TP.

Originally posted by juggerman
Because you are assume he'll have an affect against a mind he has no experience with. Not just Supes' specifically. I mean a mind not like a human's.

Each mind is unique. Mutants moreso. Since when did Prof X need experience to affect a certain mind?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Becauese one needs to determine if something can affect something with possible resistance to an ability (matter manip vs durability) else it becomes a no limits fallacy.

What possible resistance to TP does Superman have due to his alien biology?

But Superman has never shown a resistance to matter manip. Why assume he can resist?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Becauese one needs to determine if something can affect something with possible resistance to an ability (matter manip vs durability) else it becomes a no limits fallacy.

What possible resistance to TP does Superman have due to his alien biology?

What is interesting is that he has basically admitted that Superman is vulnerable to at least two different and weaker types of TP, but maintains that Superman would be immune to Prof X's TP. because the X-men universe doesn't have aliens. as if they lack of aliens somehow changes the nature of people's abilities.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Each mind is unique. Mutants moreso. Since when did Prof X need experience to affect a certain mind?

And he's had trouble with mutants. Alien minds would be vastly different

I guess experience was the wrong word. He has no feats with other worldly beings

Originally posted by Silent Master
What is interesting is that he has basically admitted that Superman is vulnerable to at least two different and weaker types of TP, but maintains that Superman would be immune to Prof X's TP. because the X-men universe doesn't have aliens. as if they lack of aliens somehow changes the nature of people's abilities.

I never said he was immune.

Originally posted by juggerman
But Superman has never shown a resistance to matter manip. Why assume he can resist?

Durability. In order to manipulate matter, your power has to bypass its natural ability to stay the way it is. It's not explicitly mentioned to be required, but it is a reasonable deduction based on now matter manip should work.

Originally posted by juggerman
I'm not splitting hairs. I'm not sure I'd call her power TP at all since it doesn't seem like she can read minds or control them. She senses fear and can give visions.

I'm not sure what the explanation of the Jedi/Sith is but yeah it seems like lower level TP.

Which means that you're admitting that Superman is vulnerable to TP and other mind attacks, both of which are of a lower power level than Prof X's own mind powers. Yet you're insisting that the X-men universe not having aliens means that all aliens are immune to X-men type TP.