Superman(Reeves) vs MCU, DCCU, Arrowverse, XMCU, Star Wars and Hancock

Started by juggerman20 pages

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Prof X does NOT affect a person's mind based on a person's DNA as it has nothing to do with DNA. Your entire basis is an argument of biological part of the brain. There is (IMO) as much difference between a mutant that can turn to mush in biology as there is an alien from outer space compared to a normal human.

Her immunity in her diamond form is a unique aspect of her power (in comics) the same way Magnet's helmet is able to protect him as well (not because he is covering his head with a helmet). As there was no clear explanation why she was resistant to telepathy in this form, you are merely speculating. The fact is, Prof X can affect beings with strikingly UNIQUE biological makeup with his telepathy. As far as I am concerned that covers the argument "that his powers only affect specific beings of a biological makeup" (as, it has in fact, affected mutants which can have a wide variety of brain makeups) in terms of evidence.

The burden of proof is now on you to provide evidence of Superman possessing unique characteristics with his mind that will make him immune to Prof X's telepathy.

I wasn't saying it was their DNA. I'm saying a being from a different world would likely be different in all sorts of way from humans. Mind is included

In the film it was a physical barrier just like the helmet. I see you left out the Shaw part. X had a hard time holding Shaw because of how powerful Shaw became. Nothing indicates Shaw had TP resistance yet X said he was too strong now. That shows another thing that hinders X.

All I'm trying to do is figure out why X gets the benefit of the doubt here when say Dr. Manhattan has shown the ability to do basically anything but as soon as someone brings up Superman or Silver Surfer it becomes "well what's the strongest thing Doc has trans-mutated or destroyed"

Originally posted by juggerman
I wasn't saying it was their DNA. I'm saying a being from a different world would likely be different in all sorts of way from humans. Mind is included

In the film it was a physical barrier just like the helmet. I see you left out the Shaw part. X had a hard time holding Shaw because of how powerful Shaw became. Nothing indicates Shaw had TP resistance yet X said he was too strong now. That shows another thing that hinders X.

All I'm trying to do is figure out why X gets the benefit of the doubt here when say Dr. Manhattan has shown the ability to do basically anything but as soon as someone brings up Superman or Silver Surfer it becomes "well what's the strongest thing Doc has trans-mutated or destroyed"

Being from a different world doesn't really tell us anything. It is pure speculation. Your argument would have merit if it is a fact that Xavier is limited to a -specific- target's biology (human/human-like). It is not. Now burden is on you to prove that Superman's unique biology offers him some sort of protection.

Shaw's will was strong, yes. And apparently his power enhanced/affected that. What does that have to prove with anything? As with any TP power, a target's will affects how hard it is for Xavier to affect his target. Does Superman have any "feats" of his will being enhanced by his power?

Because he has shown the versatlity to affect different types of biology. Humans are as different from mutants in biology as humans are different from aliens. Yet Xavier can affect both humans and mutants. Which means that it has the ability to affect a wide variety of biological makeup OR (which makes more sense) it affects a target beyond the biological and more on the metaphysical mind (which explains him being able to transfer his mind).

Originally posted by juggerman
I wasn't saying it was their DNA. I'm saying a being from a different world would likely be different in all sorts of way from humans. Mind is included

In the film it was a physical barrier just like the helmet. I see you left out the Shaw part. X had a hard time holding Shaw because of how powerful Shaw became. Nothing indicates Shaw had TP resistance yet X said he was too strong now. That shows another thing that hinders X.

All I'm trying to do is figure out why X gets the benefit of the doubt here when say Dr. Manhattan has shown the ability to do basically anything but as soon as someone brings up Superman or Silver Surfer it becomes "well what's the strongest thing Doc has trans-mutated or destroyed"

Do you actually have any proof that being from a different world makes him immune/resistant to Prof X's TP?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I agree with this.

Reeves is astronomically more powerful then Shaw, and X was barely holding Shaw at bay when X was at full power.

Reeves bloodlusted is almost spite here.

I might have gone the other way because I forgot about this.

Reeve being bloodlusted is nothing compared to the team having 1 week prep. Heck it might even be to his detriment since bloodlusted might make him act foolishly out of anger.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Reeve being bloodlusted is nothing compared to the team having 1 week prep. Heck it might even be to his detriment since bloodlusted might make him act foolishly out of anger.

Especially since his fighting speed is so low.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Being from a different world doesn't really tell us anything. It is pure speculation. Your argument would have merit if it is a fact that Xavier is limited to a -specific- target's biology (human/human-like). It is not. Now burden is on you to prove that Superman's unique biology offers him some sort of protection.

Shaw's will was strong, yes. And apparently his power enhanced/affected that. What does that have to prove with anything? As with any TP power, a target's will affects how hard it is for Xavier to affect his target. Does Superman have any "feats" of his will being enhanced by his power?

Because he has shown the versatlity to affect different types of biology. Humans are as different from mutants in biology as humans are different from aliens. Yet Xavier can affect both humans and mutants. Which means that it has the ability to affect a wide variety of biological makeup OR (which makes more sense) it affects a target beyond the biological and more on the metaphysical mind (which explains him being able to transfer his mind).

Xavier has only affected humans and mutants iirc(Not sure if he ever affected an animal). Mutants are very close to humans in their make up with only one difference(X-Gene). You can't compare that to a completely alien life form that has no common link.

Nothing was ever stated about his will being strong. You're making that up. All we were told was he was too powerful to hold for long. Superman is much more power and therefore should be able to resist Xavier more easily.

Humans are not far from mutants. They are very close seeing as how one comes from the other. Giving X the nod without any proof just seems like wishful thinking to me especially given the scrutiny given to other characters on this forum. You saying it will work is at best an assumption. Notice that I'm not saying it wouldn't work. I'm saying we can't assume it will and therefore cannot use it in a vs debate. The team has other means of victory anyway.

Maybe I should open a thread just for this topic so we don't have to derail this thread.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Do you actually have any proof that being from a different world makes him immune/resistant to Prof X's TP?

Do you actually have any proof that X can affect aliens?

Originally posted by juggerman
Do you actually have any proof that X can affect aliens?

Again, you're the one claiming that being an alien grants Superman some level of resistance if not actual immunity, therefore the burden is on you.

Originally posted by juggerman
Do you actually have any proof that X can affect aliens?

You know if we start using this logic then it will throw into chaos just about every single vs. fight we have here in this forum right?

We'll end up with arguments like:

"Vision's phasing has only been used against robots, therefore we can't assume he can use it against living beings unless he demonstrates it".

"We don't know if Wolverine can heal from an Alien's acid blood since he's never been hit with acid before"

"Thor probably won't be hurt by Superman's punches because Superman has only ever punched other Kryptonians so unless we have proof Superman can harm Asgardians we have to assume he can't".

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, you're the one claiming that being an alien grants Superman some level of resistance if not actual immunity, therefore the burden is on you.

Again, you're claiming it works on aliens so back it up please

Originally posted by FrothByte
You know if we start using this logic then it will throw into chaos just about every single vs. fight we have here in this forum right?

We'll end up with arguments like:

"Vision's phasing has only been used against robots, therefore we can't assume he can use it against living beings unless he demonstrates it".

"We don't know if Wolverine can heal from an Alien's acid blood since he's never been hit with acid before"

"Thor probably won't be hurt by Superman's punches because Superman has only ever punched other Kryptonians so unless we have proof Superman can harm Asgardians we have to assume he can't".

That's different and you know it. But please, let's take this to the thread I made so we don't clutter this anymore

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t617214.html

Originally posted by juggerman
Xavier has only affected humans and mutants iirc(Not sure if he ever affected an animal). Mutants are very close to humans in their make up with only one difference(X-Gene). You can't compare that to a completely alien life form that has no common link.

Nothing was ever stated about his will being strong. You're making that up. All we were told was he was too powerful to hold for long. Superman is much more power and therefore should be able to resist Xavier more easily.

Humans are not far from mutants. They are very close seeing as how one comes from the other. Giving X the nod without any proof just seems like wishful thinking to me especially given the scrutiny given to other characters on this forum. You saying it will work is at best an assumption. Notice that I'm not saying it wouldn't work. I'm saying we can't assume it will and therefore cannot use it in a vs debate. The team has other means of victory anyway.

Maybe I should open a thread just for this topic so we don't have to derail this thread.

It takes a few minor differences in DNA to make a human into a pig. Your argument would have merit if his powers only affected someone based on their DNA. This is not the case. Stop with the DNA argument, it has no bearing here. Zero, zilch, nil.

And the X-Gene might just be ONE thing. But it's one HUGE phucking one thing. The "one thing" that can turn a human into a shapeshifter or turn a human into a being of PURE ice or DIAMOND the one thing that can make a human practically immortal. I will argue that there is more difference between Iceman (a being that can turn to PURE ice) and a normal human than a normal human and a dog (at least a dog still has blood and bone, etc).

The question here is if Xavier can affect beings of a drastically different biological makeups. And mutants, by nature and biology, are so different from humans (and each other) that this question is easily answered.

As with telepathy, a target's will is the resisting factor behind it the same way when we make a physical attack, a target's durability is the resisting factor behind how much damage we inflict. This is an accepted interaction in any works of fiction. I'm sure you are not saying that one's physical power has something to do with how Xavier's telepathy works, as that would not only be stupid, that would be unique to this one fictional instance vs the several many many instances in fiction where this is not the case. If that is the case, you are essentially making asinine arguments that cannot be disproven by evidence for the very reason that they are asinine. Don't be "that guy".

No, me saying it will work is NOT an assumption, it is supported by evidence. You not saying it may not work (and while you never used this wording, the fact that you want to make such a tactic inadmissible at the very least implies this) is the assumption here. You just do not find the evidence acceptable, but that is not my problem.

At the end of the day, you argue that Xavier only affects specific targets based on their biology (alien vs human). While presenting zero evidence of their minds/brains being different.

I present evidence of his powers affecting beings of drastically different biological makeups as well as evidence that seems to point that Xavier's mind works beyond simple biology. That is enough.

End of the day, my evidence > yours.

Originally posted by juggerman
That's different and you know it. But please, let's take this to the thread I made so we don't clutter this anymore

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t617214.html

Nope. If you wanna argue it in a new thread, be my guest.

We'll just stay here and say Xavier freezes Superman in place.

Please:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t617214.html

Originally posted by juggerman
Again, you're claiming it works on aliens so back it up please

I'm claiming that Prof X has working TP and that Superman has no feats of resisting TP. I have backed up both of these claims. you are claiming that being an alien makes Superman resistant or immune to Prof X's TP, so once again the burden is on you.

Originally posted by juggerman
Please:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t617214.html

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Nope. If you wanna argue it in a new thread, be my guest.

We'll just stay here and say Xavier freezes Superman in place.

IYO could Xavier mind rape God from Bruce Almighty?

Originally posted by juggerman
IYO could Xavier mind rape God from Bruce Almighty?

Superman is not God.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Superman is not God.

This isn't about Superman. As I stated earlier I didn't bring this up in defense of Superman. I brought this up because I think people are giving Xavier too much credit. I just want to know where you(and others) would limit him.

Originally posted by juggerman
This isn't about Superman. As I stated earlier I didn't bring this up in defense of Superman. I brought this up because I think people are giving Xavier too much credit. I just want to know where you(and others) would limit him.

Why is it giving him too much credit to affect a being which has shown to have a very similar mind to humans (emotions, pain, anger, sadness, etc.)?

Originally posted by juggerman
This isn't about Superman. As I stated earlier I didn't bring this up in defense of Superman. I brought this up because I think people are giving Xavier too much credit. I just want to know where you(and others) would limit him.

This thread is about Superman and not God from Bruce Almighty.

Keeping this on topic, do you believe Superman is immune/resistant to TP from Scarlet Witch or Jedi?