Originally posted by Silent Master
No, you're claiming that somehow being an alien protects him from TP, that means the burden is on you.
My initial question was in regards to your claim as well as the claims of others regarding the use of TP against the Kryptonian. All I asked you was if you had proof it would work in such a situation. Then you tried to flip it on me. You claim it will work on a Kryptonian, burden is on you. Hell I don't even need an actual Kryptonian as evidence. Any non earthling will suffice
Originally posted by juggerman
You are claiming it does affect aliens. Burden is on you to back your claim
We have proven that Prof X has TP and that Superman has zero feats of TP resistance, those are the only burdens we have.
You are the one claiming that Superman being an alien magically makes him immune/resistant to Prof X's TP, so again that makes the burden yours.
Scarlet Witch's mental games worked on Thor, who is an alien. And she could also read the thoughts of a robot. Her mental manipulation is far less than Xavier as well.
Since TP and mental manipulation was shown working on an alien, then we have proof it works on Superman. Unless you want to say "there's no evidence it will work since he's a different type of alien"
Originally posted by Silent Master
We have proven that Prof X has TP and that Superman has zero feats of TP resistance, those are the only burdens we have.You are the one claiming that Superman being an alien magically makes him immune/resistant to Prof X's TP, so again that makes the burden yours.
You are claiming Xavier can affect any mind as long as that mind has no resistance feats. This is a fallacy unless you can prove it. All he has done was affect human/mutant minds. He's even had difficulty with some. To assume all minds including alien are susceptible without proof is silly. You clearly have none and are hoping to hide that by pretending I'm claiming Superman has an immunity. Straw manning won't work. Still waiting on you to back your claim that X can TP aliens
Originally posted by KingD19
Scarlet Witch's mental games worked on Thor, who is an alien. And she could also read the thoughts of a robot. Her mental manipulation is far less than Xavier as well.Since TP and mental manipulation was shown working on an alien, then we have proof it works on Superman. Unless you want to say "there's no evidence it will work since he's a different type of alien"
Scarlet Witch's power is not in question. I have no doubt she can affect Superman. Xavier is not Scarlet Witch
Originally posted by juggerman
You are claiming Xavier can affect any mind as long as that mind has no resistance feats. This is a fallacy unless you can prove it. All he has done was affect human/mutant minds. He's even had difficulty with some. To assume all minds including alien are susceptible without proof is silly. You clearly have none and are hoping to hide that by pretending I'm claiming Superman has an immunity. Straw manning won't work. Still waiting on you to back your claim that X can TP aliens
How is it a fallacy to say that someone with no TP resistance feats is vulnerable to TP?
Jeeze can we stop focusing on simply Xavier?
Xavier, Phoenix, Emma Frost, Scarlet Witch, that dream guy in a wheel chair - and everyone else on the team who has psychic powers will all be directing a mental assault at Superman.
Do you really think Superman can withstand an assault like that just because he's "alien"?
That's not even considering that he'll be heavily taxed by trying to physically fight off every other super powered being from the team and so won't be able to keep his mental defenses up (even if he had them).
Bottom line is, Superman loses this match one way or another.
Originally posted by juggerman
You are claiming Xavier can affect any mind as long as that mind has no resistance feats. This is a fallacy unless you can prove it. All he has done was affect human/mutant minds. He's even had difficulty with some. To assume all minds including alien are susceptible without proof is silly. You clearly have none and are hoping to hide that by pretending I'm claiming Superman has an immunity. Straw manning won't work. Still waiting on you to back your claim that X can TP aliens
The problem with your argument is that you are assuming that Xavier's Telepathy affects it's targets as would a PHYSICAL power would, affecting minds only when they are human in biology. Thus, a different alien biology would be immune to it.
The weakness of this theory is 2-fold:
1) Mutants by their nature are aberrants in terms of biology and tend to be distinct from not just humanity, but to other mutants as well. You have some humans that can turn to Jelly some who can change their physical makeup, etc. You CANNOT claim that are similar to human in terms of biology any more. And it seems that Prof X can affect their minds just fine.
2) Prof X was able to transfer his MIND into another body. This is another piece of evidence that Telepathy is less a power that affects physical brains but affects the metaphysical mind.
In order for your theory to fly, you have to prove that Superman's MIND has unique alien characteristics that prevent it from being affected by TP.
Originally posted by Silent Master
How is it a fallacy to say that someone with no TP resistance feats is vulnerable to TP?
Because Xavier has had trouble holding people in the past without TP resistance. Shaw for instance needed a helmet to block Xavier but he still couldn't hold Shaw for long because he was so powerful
Originally posted by FrothByte
Jeeze can we stop focusing on simply Xavier?Xavier, Phoenix, Emma Frost, Scarlet Witch, that dream guy in a wheel chair - and everyone else on the team who has psychic powers will all be directing a mental assault at Superman.
Do you really think Superman can withstand an assault like that just because he's "alien"?
That's not even considering that he'll be heavily taxed by trying to physically fight off every other super powered being from the team and so won't be able to keep his mental defenses up (even if he had them).
Bottom line is, Superman loses this match one way or another.
I don't care that Superman can lose here. I've agreed to that. The only issue I have is people claimed X can do something he hasn't shown the ability to pull off. Superman can be affected by SW and the mind stone imo. X isn't needed
Originally posted by juggerman
Because Xavier has had trouble holding people in the past without TP resistance. Shaw for instance needed a helmet to block Xavier but he still couldn't hold Shaw for long because he was so powerful
I agree with this.
Reeves is astronomically more powerful then Shaw, and X was barely holding Shaw at bay when X was at full power.
Reeves bloodlusted is almost spite here.
I might have gone the other way because I forgot about this.
Originally posted by juggerman
Because Xavier has had trouble holding people in the past without TP resistance. Shaw for instance needed a helmet to block Xavier but he still couldn't hold Shaw for long because he was so powerful
If they were able to resist his TP, then by definition they had TP resistance. does Superman have any feats of TP resistance?
Originally posted by Nibedicus
The problem with your argument is that you are assuming that Xavier's Telepathy affects it's targets as would a PHYSICAL power would, affecting minds only when they are human in biology. Thus, a different alien biology would be immune to it.The weakness of this theory is 2-fold:
1) Mutants by their nature are aberrants in terms of biology and tend to be distinct from not just humanity, but to other mutants as well. You have some humans that can turn to Jelly some who can change their physical makeup, etc. You CANNOT claim that are similar to human in terms of biology any more. And it seems that Prof X can affect their minds just fine.
2) Prof X was able to transfer his MIND into another body. This is another piece of evidence that Telepathy is less a power that affects physical brains but affects the metaphysical mind.
In order for your theory to fly, you have to prove that Superman's MIND has unique alien characteristics that prevent it from being affected by TP.
Mutants are essentially humans with an extra gene. Not a real difference unlike a being from across the cosmos.
X's powers have been physically blocked tho. Helmets are physical. Also he had trouble with Shaw due to his power not due to his mental prowess. Emma Frosy also blocked him not with her mental power but with her hard skin. Without that X mind raped her. Those are all physical means that hinder him
Originally posted by juggerman
Mutants are essentially humans with an extra gene. Not a real difference unlike a being from across the cosmos.X's powers have been physically blocked tho. Helmets are physical. Also he had trouble with Shaw due to his power not due to his mental prowess. Emma Frosy also blocked him not with her mental power but with her hard skin. Without that X mind raped her. Those are all physical means that hinder him
Prof X does NOT affect a person's mind based on a person's DNA as it has nothing to do with DNA. Your entire basis is an argument of biological part of the brain. There is (IMO) as much difference between a mutant that can turn to mush in biology as there is an alien from outer space compared to a normal human.
Her immunity in her diamond form is a unique aspect of her power (in comics) the same way Magnet's helmet is able to protect him as well (not because he is covering his head with a helmet). As there was no clear explanation why she was resistant to telepathy in this form, you are merely speculating. The fact is, Prof X can affect beings with strikingly UNIQUE biological makeup with his telepathy. As far as I am concerned that covers the argument "that his powers only affect specific beings of a biological makeup" (as, it has in fact, affected mutants which can have a wide variety of brain makeups) in terms of evidence.
The burden of proof is now on you to provide evidence of Superman possessing unique characteristics with his mind that will make him immune to Prof X's telepathy.