Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah and DD beat two guys that were operating at pyramid lifting strength. Darkseid may not have even been that strong.
Lol! Actually, he stomped an amped Pre-Crisis Supergirl while at weaker and less powerful levels than he was against Doomsday.
If you want to get technical about it.
Oh, and Superman has already moved the Earth-Moon system, though he had to trick himself into believing that it was an inferior feat. But that will be dishonestly nitpicked to death.
Originally posted by panthergod
Lol! Actually, he stomped an amped Pre-Crisis Supergirl while at weaker and less powerful levels than he was against Doomsday.If you want to get technical about it.
Oh, and Superman has already moved the Earth-Moon system, though he had to trick himself into believing that it was an inferior feat. But that will be dishonestly nitpicked to death.
Well if you want to go and pull out the technical card, that would mean one or two things.
1. Doomsday beat up on an Avatar with an unknown power level.
2. Comic book writers constantly ignore continuity.
Zeus manhandled the Hulk, and in that era the Hulk had the ability to ramp up without foaming at the mouth, which was seen during Planet Hulk through the Heart of the Monster arc. This ended when Banner asked doom to perform brain surgery on him as a limiter.
Originally posted by StoicFalse.
Yeah and DD beat two guys that were operating at pyramid lifting strength. Darkseid may not have even been that strong.
B) Even without the scaling, in Man of Steel 30, before Hunter Prey, Superman picked up and threw a ship the size of the moon. Within the year, Simonson and Jurgens [Supes' primary authors of the period] had Superman flying through the sun and escaping black holes, and all the other cosmic stuff. Hunter/Prey was around the time where Superman began to repower-up.
C) In Hunter Prey, Superman was amped.
D) If you were trying to gauge by characters levels back then just in a sad attempt to downplay things -- the Guardians of the Universe, which Doomsday and Darkseid are known mightier than -- each was said to contain power near equal to the Central Power Battery[even the narration reitterated much in the encounter with Doomsday], and while this largely seems as hyperbole--they proved such by supplying the entire corp off of personal energy for a time previously. As we know. The power of the CPB is enough to wipe the universe clean.
Originally posted by Stoic
Well if you want to go and pull out the technical card, that would mean one or two things.1. Doomsday beat up on an Avatar with an unknown power level.
Doomsday was never stated to have fought an avatar, anywhere, and Morrison makes a distinction between their Celestial bodies and the mortal forms they inhabited during Seven Soldiers and Final Crisis.
Their celestial bodies are dimensionally formatted by Boomtubes. Nice try, though.
2. Comic book writers constantly ignore continuity.Zeus manhandled the Hulk, and in that era the Hulk had the ability to ramp up without foaming at the mouth, which was seen during Planet Hulk through the Heart of the Monster arc. This ended when Banner asked doom to perform brain surgery on him as a limiter.
Good for him. None of this has any bearing on Doomsday, who isn't weakened by magick.
Originally posted by StoicSuperman lifted things far heavier than a mountain. Darkseid's power shown in the comic (skyfather or above) was displayed when he vaporized the two missiles at half power. Superman couldn't put a scratch on them using all of his might. That means half of Darkseid's power is astronomically more than Superman's power.
Yeah and DD beat two guys that were operating at pyramid lifting strength. Darkseid may not have even been that strong.
Originally posted by h1a8
good my son, you are learning. But know this. If a scene to gauge power isn't given then we assume average levels. So DD overpowered an amped average Superman. This means DD overpowered an upper echelon Superman.
What level is an average Superman strength wise? What strength fts did he display while fighting Doomsday?
Originally posted by carver9Superman had no strength feats when fighting HP DD. So we take him at his average. I would say on average, that Superman was around mountain lifting. With the mother box amp I would say at least several times that. Years later, Superman's power increased to average levels of at least lunar or planetary level.
What level is an average Superman strength wise? What strength fts did he display while fighting Doomsday?
Imo, the Hulk Zeus fought was operating at low levels since he came as a sacrifice, not to actually win. With that said, DD has more than strength. He has insane speed, instant healing, sharp claws, and adapting abilities.
Originally posted by h1a8
Superman had no strength feats when fighting HP DD. So we take him at his average. I would say on average, that Superman was around mountain lifting. With the mother box amp I would say at least several times that. Years later, Superman's power increased to average levels of at least lunar or planetary level.Imo, the Hulk Zeus fought was operating at low levels since he came as a sacrifice, not to actually win. With that said, DD has more than strength. He has insane speed, instant healing, sharp claws, and adapting abilities.
What about his durability? Where was he durability wise? Think before you answer this. Have you read the story?
Zeus fought the same Hulk fought two beings that was amped a thousand times over Savage Hulk. This same Hulk punched these two beings along with part of a city out of orbit and they were 100's of ft tall. He then pushed a city while calm. Zeus fought the same Hulk who took an amped Rulk out with a thunder clap. Same Hulk who threw a mountain. Before even fighting Zeus, on his way to fighting Zeus, this same Hulk withstood a sun being thrown at him and Zeus and Hulk fight was shaking the landscape. The hero's felt their fight all the way down to the edge of the sea.
Originally posted by carver9Whose durability? Superman's?
What about his durability? Where was he durability wise? Think before you answer this. Have you read the story?Zeus fought the same Hulk fought two beings that was amped a thousand times over Savage Hulk. This same Hulk punched these two beings along with part of a city out of orbit and they were 100's of ft tall. He then pushed a city while calm. Zeus fought the same Hulk who took an amped Rulk out with a thunder clap. Same Hulk who threw a mountain. Before even fighting Zeus, on his way to fighting Zeus, this same Hulk withstood a sun being thrown at him and Zeus and Hulk fight was shaking the landscape. The hero's felt their fight all the way down to the edge of the sea.
I disagree. The Hulk who fought Zeus was at low levels. Why fight at high levels when you are a sacrifice? Hulk could have easily beaten Zeus by amping up to just a fraction of WB levels. But he didn't. He suppressed his power in order to be a sacrifice.
Originally posted by h1a8
Whose durability? Superman's?
Well lifting a mountain requires the durability to withstand the force of pressure. So his durability was at least mountain level without the mother box amp.I disagree. The Hulk who fought Zeus was at low levels. Why fight at high levels when you are a sacrifice? Hulk could have easily beaten Zeus by amping up to just a fraction of WB levels. But he didn't. He suppressed his power in order to be a sacrifice.
So if I show you scans of this Doomsday taking Superman out with less than mountain level power, would you concede?
Everything you said is true about the sacrifice but even if THAT Hulk lowered his power, I don't think it would ever be mountain level. That's impossible.
Originally posted by h1a8
What you don't understand is that DD was making Waverider not able to control his energy by simply being in the vicinity. And speed steal is a process. Either DD would reverse the process (by adapting) or his presence would affect flashes powers.
First it doesn't matter that Waverider was not able to control his energy, I'm talking about time travel and erasing Bertram and prevent DD's creation and or go back in time before DD made Waverider not being able to control his energy and stop time in area/space around DD-thse are all things that Waverider does on daily basis-Waverider can do all thse things without being near DD.
These examples are time related and DD is completely powerless against them-I don't buy the words that Juntai said-that DD event is uneraseable-buecause that's simply not true, it's not uneraseable expecially not by Waverider who manipulates time like it is nothing.
Regarding Flash's speed steal: Sorry but that is simply wrong, speed steal is not a process it is absorption of kinetic energy-again, something that DD cannot do anything against it.
And Flash does not have to be near DD, that's the whole point, DD would not even know when his kinetic energy/speed steal is finishedm DD would simply not be able to move, plus time thing with Flash, you get the point.
Originally posted by Faceeno, he amped himself to his highest levels to face Hulk. We know this because Zeus didn't care if he killed Hulk or not. He had no reason to hold back initially. Plus there was no indication of Zeus holding back. Zeus face was full of might.
So even if that were the case, you don't think Zues can amp himself to an even higher level ?
In comic debating we can only assume based off evidence. There is no evidence to suggest that Zeus can amp higher than what he did against Hulk. If you disagree, then what is your evidence?
Originally posted by carver9I might. Show me a scan of HP DD taking out Superman with less than mountain level power.
So if I show you scans of this Doomsday taking Superman out with less than mountain level power, would you concede?Everything you said is true about the sacrifice but even if THAT Hulk lowered his power, I don't think it would ever be mountain level. That's impossible.
I don't quite understand you. You don't think Hulk lowered his power below mountain level?
Originally posted by Facee
So even if that were the case, you don't think Zues can amp himself to an even higher level ?
Precisely... 👆
If Zeus has even half the power of the Odin Force (and I believe he's far closer to Odin than this based on how they are represented in relation to one another), then his ability to self amp is off the charts and is far beyond what Doomsday demonstrated during Hunter Prey...