Zeus (Marvel) vs HP Doomsday

Originally posted by Juntai
Explain how it helps Zues then. Is he written stronger now than 15 years ago but, but when they revisit the old story, he was always that strong?

Because I fail to see how explaining power scaling in relation to early 90s Superman to you, helps Zues at all in this debate.

Well you have the Hulk on one side of the fence, and Superman on the other. Zeus wrecked house with the Hulk, but not just any Hulk, he did this to a Hulk capable of ramping up instantly to what was seen during the Heart of the Monster, and do so while remaining in a relatively calm state. As opposed to Doomsday wrecking house on Superman, and the rest of the characters that he dominated convincingly during Hunter Prey. Power scaling works on both sides of the fence in this case, because Zeus did not actually have any feats to to date that placed him at the level of power shown when he tore into the Hulk. A lot of people if asked who would win between Zeus and the Green Scar (WB Hulk) would have said, what feats does Zeus actually have to say that he would win, until he did win to the point of it being ugly.

This brings us back to the what strength feats does Zeus have to make claim that he would last an instant against Doomsday, and in reply, one would only need say what strength feats does Doomsday have? did he lift a planet, blow up a dimension with a punch? What did he actually do other than beating up on Darkseid that may or may not have been the true Darkseid. What made people automatically jump to the conclusion that Superman was written to be as strong as Zeus? It really all comes down to opinion. However I was a lot more impressed with Wb Hulk's upper level feats than Doomsday's.

WWH strength fts are far better than Doomsdays...his punching fts are as well. Lol...Hulk punched Onslaught so hard that it knocked the reality warping power out of him. True story.

Scans

Originally posted by Stoic
Well you have the Hulk on one side of the fence, and Superman on the other. Zeus wrecked house with the Hulk, but not just any Hulk, he did this to a Hulk capable of ramping up instantly to what was seen during the Heart of the Monster, and do so while remaining in a relatively calm state. As opposed to Doomsday wrecking house on Superman, and the rest of the characters that he dominated convincingly during Hunter Prey. Power scaling works on both sides of the fence in this case, because Zeus did not actually have any feats to to date that placed him at the level of power shown when he tore into the Hulk. A lot of people if asked who would win between Zeus and the Green Scar (WB Hulk) would have said, what feats does Zeus actually have to say that he would win, until he did win to the point of it being ugly.

This brings us back to the what strength feats does Zeus have to make claim that he would last an instant against Doomsday, and in reply, one would only need say what strength feats does Doomsday have? did he lift a planet, blow up a dimension with a punch? What did he actually do other than beating up on Darkseid that may or may not have been the true Darkseid. What made people automatically jump to the conclusion that Superman was written to be as strong as Zeus? It really all comes down to opinion. However I was a lot more impressed with Wb Hulk's upper level feats than Doomsday's.

Are you that lost?

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm not talking about ABC. I was talking about power scaling.

Are you that lost?

Do I have to go back and quote you when you jumped in without a clue? H1 asked what strength feats did Zeus actually have to make a claim that he could beat HP DD (as if this were limited to a brawl). I then asked the same question of him. You then jump in with power scaling, and I'm telling you that it works the same on the other side of the fence, less you forget that Zeus had no feats to date that would have suggested that he would have beaten the Green Scar as badly as he did with his fists. In fact many people would have thought the reverse until it actually happened on panel.

Zeus' best H2H showing to date was against Thor, and then we didn't hear too much more about him aside from run ins with the Avengers that couldn't hold a candle to the Green Scar. All of the rest that you mentioned about Superman and Doomsday shaking the planet with their blows instead of blowing out windows for miles were more of a retcon than a scaling IMO. However I have seen Superman scale up in power, but the same could be said of Thor when he came back from the dead, only to receive his fair share of lumps later.

As it stands, I'm not the one on trial here, Zeus went above any showing that he had previously achieved against mortal characters when he soundly defeated the Hulk. This was clearly power scaling at its best. If you saw my last post as ABC logic, you're clearly the only one mixed up in the game. So let's go back since you weren't able or willing to read the thread. H1 said that Zeus had to become a giant in order to lift a mountain, and even then he was struggling due to seeing his teeth. I then posted a scan of Superman actually grunting to lift a pyramid which obviously got you heated up enough to throw in a strawman that had nothing to do with anything.

To drill this in a little deeper, Zeus easily beat up on a guy that had the power to make planets, and surrounding moons explode from indirectly colliding with another of equal strength, yet he was claimed to only possess the strength to pick up a mountain while struggling to do so. Now, since you missed/ignored the reason why I posted the scan of Superman straining to lift a pyramid, perhaps now you know. If not, it seems that I will have to explain it in terms that you will understand. Would you like for me to do so? Just ask.

Originally posted by Stoic
Do I have to go back and quote you when you jumped in without a clue? H1 asked what strength feats did Zeus actually have to make a claim that he could beat HP DD (as if this were limited to a brawl). I then asked the same question of him. You then jump in with power scaling, and I'm telling you that it works the same on the other side of the fence, less you forget that Zeus had no feats to date that would have suggested that he would have beaten the Green Scar as badly as he did with his fists. In fact many people would have thought the reverse until it actually happened on panel.

Zeus' best H2H showing to date was against Thor, and then we didn't hear too much more about him aside from run ins with the Avengers that couldn't hold a candle to the Green Scar. All of the rest that you mentioned about Superman and Doomsday shaking the planet with their blows instead of blowing out windows for miles were more of a retcon than a scaling IMO. However I have seen Superman scale up in power, but the same could be said of Thor when he came back from the dead, only to receive his fair share of lumps later.

As it stands, I'm not the one on trial here, Zeus went above any showing that he had previously achieved against mortal characters when he soundly defeated the Hulk. This was clearly power scaling at its best. If you saw my last post as ABC logic, you're clearly the only one mixed up in the game. So let's go back since you weren't able or willing to read the thread. H1 said that Zeus had to become a giant in order to lift a mountain, and even then he was struggling due to seeing his teeth. I then posted a scan of Superman actually grunting to lift a pyramid which obviously got you heated up enough to throw in a strawman that had nothing to do with anything.

To drill this in a little deeper, Zeus easily beat up on a guy that had the power to make planets, and surrounding moons explode from indirectly colliding with another of equal strength, yet he was claimed to only possess the strength to pick up a mountain while struggling to do so. Now, since you missed/ignored the reason why I posted the scan of Superman straining to lift a pyramid, perhaps now you know. If not, it seems that I will have to explain it in terms that you will understand. Would you like for me to do so? Just ask.

Also, my posts have nothing to do with H1's.

Originally posted by Juntai
Yeah, you're still not comprehending power scaling.

Also, my posts have nothing to do with H1's.

Or power scaling can take on more than one form outside of your definition of the term. Again with heart this time. Power Scaling had very little to do with anything until you decided to go off course and bring it up. Do you want to argue in circles over the irrelevant, or did you actually have a point that you wanted to make clear?

Originally posted by Stoic
Or power scaling can take on more than one form outside of your definition of the term. Again with heart this time. Power Scaling had very little to do with anything until you decided to go off course and bring it up. Do you want to argue in circles over the irrelevant, or did you actually have a point that you wanted to make clear?

But since you want to play the who beat who game, Doomsday was above Guardians and above Darkseid on panel, having beat both of them. Soundly. Easily.

Darkseid is above Lords of Order and Chaos, and panthon gods like Odin and Zues in DC. and above Guardians as well. [Darkseid conquered olympus once, Odin admitted Darkseid was stronger, and Guardians sacrificed a lantern to him so he wouldn't retatiate to them]

DC's Odin is universal level on panel, as Panthergod explained, he showed the ability to create a reality in Sandman [which was carried over from the JSA 1 shot that moved them out of New Earth for a time] .. Zues is stronger than him, Earths highest pantheon god.
Guardians were considered powerful as the power battery. [Universal level.] And thought they never showed a true universal feat, their power is mentioned in narration in comparison to the power battery several times, and proven in that one actually replaced the battery as the source of power for the GLC for a time.

But Marvel Zues beat up Hulk.

OK.

I guess he wins.

Lords of Order and Chaos have actually recreated entire creation after destroying it.

In the same series, they were scared shitless of Darkseid.

Originally posted by carver9
So you're telling me that if Thor threw Mjlonir at Martian Manhunter and Manhunter caught it, he can hold on to it as long as he wants? If the hammer is on the ground or on something, that's when the enchantment goes into effect? What new brand of coccaine are you inhaling?

If the hammer is in Thor freaking hand then the enchantment isn't in effect. OMG.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here's a good example.

Originally posted by Juntai
But since you want to play the who beat who game, Doomsday was above Guardians and above Darkseid on panel, having beat both of them. Soundly. Easily.

Darkseid is above Lords of Order and Chaos, and panthon gods like Odin and Zues in DC. and above Guardians as well. [Darkseid conquered olympus once, Odin admitted Darkseid was stronger, and Guardians sacrificed a lantern to him so he wouldn't retatiate to them]

DC's Odin is universal level on panel, as Panthergod explained, he showed the ability to create a reality in Sandman [which was carried over from the JSA 1 shot that moved them out of New Earth for a time] .. Zues is stronger than him, Earths highest pantheon god.
Guardians were considered powerful as the power battery. [Universal level.] And thought they never showed a true universal feat, their power is mentioned in narration in comparison to the power battery several times, and proven in that one actually replaced the battery as the source of power for the GLC for a time.

But Marvel Zues beat up Hulk.

OK.

I guess he wins.

And yet none of this has anything to do with the point that I was making. Even at this moment H1 has formed an argument against the very people that write the books. Now what does Doomsday have to do with the feats that were accomplished by others? How do you know for a fact that it was Darkseid that DD beat up and not another one of his Avatar's? If Doomsday and Superman are actually as powerful as Abstract level Marvel characters (as you've eluded to) I guess Cyborg Superman ranks in as being even higher.

I mean you yourself have made claims that Superman was just that powerful, but while we are at it perhaps we should add Thor to the list of beings that have universal power, because after all, he managed to hurt the Chaos King, and while we're at that let's just toss out his other showings which happen to be the majority not unlike Superman, and go with a character's once in a lifetime feats over their average? Mind you, not that any of this had anything whatsoever to do with why I posted Superman struggling to lift a pyramid. So while you would like to attempt to lessen the feats that the Hulk achieved during HOTM, I have yet to actually see DD pull off a power stunt as grandiose as was witnessed in that particular arc. I mean since this is all about feats and not the hype that you spilled out all over this page and all.

Originally posted by h1a8
The enchantment prevents lifting it, not holding it.

Originally posted by Mindset
lol

× 2

Originally posted by h1a8
No, if the enchantment prevents holding it in the air (above the ground) then it should crush anything above the ground that it rests on. Do you understand?
Wrong! Thors hammer does not crush. That's a writer's error. Just like Rulk using Mjolnir in zero gravity. It contradicts what will really happen. For example, if Thor laid his hammer on top of Rulk's head while Rulk is standing then what will happen? Exactly! nothing! Rulk's head will simply be holding Thors hammer. The hammer will not crush Rulk or anything that it rests on. The enchantment prevents lifting it, not holding it.

So when Doomsday is written to be faster than the Flash, we go by writer's intent.

But when the hammer is written to be enchanted (and the artist draws it so), it is writer's error.

Here's another example. Completely different writer.

Originally posted by h1a8
The enchantment prevents lifting it, not holding it.

Please quote the enchantment. What does it say on the hammer?

Originally posted by Juntai
But since you want to play the who beat who game, Doomsday was above Guardians and above Darkseid on panel, having beat both of them. Soundly. Easily.

Darkseid is above Lords of Order and Chaos, and panthon gods like Odin and Zues in DC. and above Guardians as well. [Darkseid conquered olympus once, Odin admitted Darkseid was stronger, and Guardians sacrificed a lantern to him so he wouldn't retatiate to them]

DC's Odin is universal level on panel, as Panthergod explained, he showed the ability to create a reality in Sandman [which was carried over from the JSA 1 shot that moved them out of New Earth for a time] .. Zues is stronger than him, Earths highest pantheon god.
Guardians were considered powerful as the power battery. [Universal level.] And thought they never showed a true universal feat, their power is mentioned in narration in comparison to the power battery several times, and proven in that one actually replaced the battery as the source of power for the GLC for a time.

But Marvel Zues beat up Hulk.

OK.

I guess he wins.

👆

This made me 😆

Originally posted by h1a8
No, if the enchantment prevents holding it in the air (above the ground) then it should crush anything above the ground that it rests on. Do you understand?
Wrong! Thors hammer does not crush. That's a writer's error. Just like Rulk using Mjolnir in zero gravity. It contradicts what will really happen. For example, if Thor laid his hammer on top of Rulk's head while Rulk is standing then what will happen? Exactly! nothing! Rulk's head will simply be holding Thors hammer. The hammer will not crush Rulk or anything that it rests on. The enchantment prevents lifting it, not holding it.

H1...stop trolling before I report you.

Originally posted by Juntai
But since you want to play the who beat who game, Doomsday was above Guardians and above Darkseid on panel, having beat both of them. Soundly. Easily.

Darkseid is above Lords of Order and Chaos, and panthon gods like Odin and Zues in DC. and above Guardians as well. [Darkseid conquered olympus once, Odin admitted Darkseid was stronger, and Guardians sacrificed a lantern to him so he wouldn't retatiate to them]

DC's Odin is universal level on panel, as Panthergod explained, he showed the ability to create a reality in Sandman [which was carried over from the JSA 1 shot that moved them out of New Earth for a time] .. Zues is stronger than him, Earths highest pantheon god.
Guardians were considered powerful as the power battery. [Universal level.] And thought they never showed a true universal feat, their power is mentioned in narration in comparison to the power battery several times, and proven in that one actually replaced the battery as the source of power for the GLC for a time.

But Marvel Zues beat up Hulk.

OK.

I guess he wins.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So when Doomsday is written to be faster than the Flash, we go by writer's intent.

But when the hammer is written to be enchanted (and the artist draws it so), it is writer's error.

Here's another example. Completely different writer.

Please quote the enchantment. What does it say on the hammer?

Wasn't it ruled that the Rulk incident writer's error?

But you are not understanding. There is a contradiction in comics? In another instance Thor can place his hammer on someone and it not crush them by dropping completely to the ground. Why is this? How do we reconcile the contradiction? If the hammer always fall unless the worthy is holding then why does it not fall when being held by someone's head or chest?

If Thor gently laid the hammer down on top of Hulks head then what will happen?
Will the hammer fall, crushing Hulk into a pancake? Or will the hammer just rest atop of Hulks head?

Originally posted by h1a8
Wasn't it ruled that the Rulk incident writer's error?

But you are not understanding. There is a contradiction in comics? In another instance Thor can place his hammer on someone and it not crush them by dropping completely to the ground. Why is this? How do we reconcile the contradiction? If the hammer always fall unless the worthy is holding then why does it not fall when being held by someone's head or chest?

If Thor gently laid the hammer down on top of Hulks head then what will happen?
Will the hammer fall, crushing Hulk into a pancake? Or will the hammer just rest atop of Hulks head?

There was no ruling. Caveated by, that I know of. Proof?

Post scans of him laying it on someone, then we'll see.

Also, please quote the enchantment on the hammer. You say it is on lifting, not holding. So please quote it.