Zeus (Marvel) vs HP Doomsday

Originally posted by Mister Supreme
Sorry, but you are wrong about Waverider, since Waverider never even tried to stop time around DD after being backlashed, time trick will easily defeat H/P DD, just like it does and it did every other physical brick.
Plus, Waverider's device would teleport DD to the end of time and kill him there or teleport to every single part of the universe-end of H/P DD.

And no, I wasn't wrong about Waverider in any sense.

Originally posted by Juntai
No one claimed Doomsday couldn't be bfr'ed. In fact, its the only hope for most characters.

And no, I wasn't wrong about Waverider in any sense.

Originally posted by h1a8
What Galan is saying that DD possessed the ability to disrupt Waverider's energies. This is equivalent to having a defense to time manipulation. If DD can prevent Waverider from controlling his power then he can possibly do so to someone else. Now either DD instantly evolved to do this or he already had this ability. It makes no sense to already have the ability since DD never found anyone with chronal energy.

This is not true at all, because no physical brick unless he/she has time manipulation can protect from time manipulation:
Examples.you are forgetting the fact that Waverider already touched H/P DD (before Waverider attacked him with nervous system attack) and freezed DD in time to read his past-and that's when H/P DD did not adapt at all!!!

It's all in Galan's posts on Doomsday respect thread.

Second:
Anyone who is controlling and manipulating time like Waverider will beat H/P Doomsday-once, twice, 3 times, 4 times, infinite number of time, because we are talking about time control/manipulation here-wake up, people.
So people claim that H/P DD adapted to Waverider's chronal energies, DD only adapted to energy of nervous system shutdown

Hypothetically speaking (which, of course is not true at all), if H/P DD somehow manages to adapt to Waverider's chronal energies;
all Waverider has to do is to time travel to the past before this happens plus like Waverider has already shown he can and does stop time in an entire area/space around any superhero/supervillain-end of H/P DD, plus Waverider time travels to time just before DD was even created, plus transport H/P DD at any part of time stream that would completely destroy him-feats like these Waverider does on a daily basis-100% irrefutably 100% proven facts.

What's wrong with you people-all of you who absolutely erroneously/mistakenly think otherwise, I gave you examples why H/P DD cannot adapt to time manipulation-this is not about just blasting into DD and DD will stop move, it's a time manipulation of entire areas/spaces in which H/P DD and all other characters are involved, and this is something that Waverider does all the time-always-because Waverider has been shown to do these mentioned time feats all the time on a daily basis-if space and everything inside space is stopped in time-there is nothing what H/P DD, even if hypothetically adapted, cannot do a damn thing-because we are not talking about physical attack at all.

All H/P DD did was a backlash when Waverider tried to shutodwn his nervous system, Waverider lost control because his mental part/nervous system part was supercharged when he tried to shutdown H/P DD's nervous system attack, when before this Waverider stopped time around H/P DD to read his past, H/P was not able to adapt to Waverider's time control/manipulation, what H/P DD was simply messing with Waverider's mental control over his energy body, and not time control/manipulation, what H/P DD has adapted to was simply nervous system shutdown which in scans/tests is 100% irrefutably 100% condifrmed 100% proven-facts.

Deal with facts how it truly happened, not with fanboyism fan fictions.

Personally, I'd love to say that H/P DD (because I'm a H/P DD fanboy, actually I'm a true H/P DD fanatic-and that is the truth, but I cannot ignore facts, neither of you can either, writing that H/P DD adapted to Waverider's chronal energies is one of the biggest lies I have come across because of all the facts I have mentioned above) adapted to Waverider's chronal energies, but I would be 100% lying, just like everyone else, who misread those scans and comics where Waverider and H/P DD met, the real truth is exactly the opposite-H/P DD did not adapt to Waverider's chronal energies because of the facts I mentioned in this newest post that I posted above-I have written those facts in bold texts.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Mister Supreme
This is not true at all, because no physical brick unless he/she has time manipulation can protect from time manipulation:
Examples.you are forgetting the fact that Waverider already touched H/P DD (before Waverider attacked him with nervous system attack) and freezed DD in time to read his past-and that's when H/P DD did not adapt at all!!!

It's all in Galan's posts on Doomsday respect thread.

Second:
Anyone who is controlling and manipulating time like Waverider will beat H/P Doomsday-once, twice, 3 times, 4 times, infinite number of time, because we are talking about time control/manipulation here-wake up, people.
So people claim that H/P DD adapted to Waverider's chronal energies, DD only adapted to energy of nervous system shutdown

Hypothetically speaking (which, of course is not true at all), if H/P DD somehow manages to adapt to Waverider's chronal energies;
[B]all Waverider has to do is to time travel to the past before this happens plus like Waverider has already shown he can and does stop time in an entire area/space around any superhero/supervillain-end of H/P DD, plus Waverider time travels to time just before DD was even created, plus transport H/P DD at any part of time stream that would completely destroy him-feats like these Waverider does on a daily basis-100% irrefutably 100% proven facts.

What's wrong with you people-all of you who absolutely erroneously/mistakenly think otherwise, I gave you examples why H/P DD cannot adapt to time manipulation-this is not about just blasting into DD and DD will stop move, it's a time manipulation of entire areas/spaces in which H/P DD and all other characters are involved, and this is something that Waverider does all the time-always-because Waverider has been shown to do these mentioned time feats all the time on a daily basis-if space and everything inside space is stopped in time-there is nothing what H/P DD, even if hypothetically adapted, cannot do a damn thing-because we are not talking about physical attack at all.

All H/P DD did was a backlash when Waverider tried to shutodwn his nervous system, Waverider lost control because his mental part/nervous system part was supercharged when he tried to shutdown H/P DD's nervous system attack, when before this Waverider stopped time around H/P DD to read his past, H/P was not able to adapt to Waverider's time control/manipulation, what H/P DD was simply messing with Waverider's mental control over his energy body, and not time control/manipulation, what H/P DD has adapted to was simply nervous system shutdown which in scans/tests is 100% irrefutably 100% condifrmed 100% proven-facts.

Deal with facts how it truly happened, not with fanboyism fan fictions.

Personally, I'd love to say that H/P DD (because I'm a H/P DD fanboy, actually I'm a true H/P DD fanatic-and that is the truth, but I cannot ignore facts, neither of you can either, writing that H/P DD adapted to Waverider's chronal energies is one of the biggest lies I have come across because of all the facts I have mentioned above) adapted to Waverider's chronal energies, but I would be 100% lying, just like everyone else, who misread those scans and comics where Waverider and H/P DD met, the real truth is exactly the opposite-H/P DD did not adapt to Waverider's chronal energies because of the facts I mentioned in this newest post that I posted above-I have written those facts in bold texts.

Cheers. [/B]

Second, he didn't touch Doomsday and stop time. He touched Superman and shared Doomsday's history with him after they were away from Doomsday. The time he did finally try to step in, he got his power backlashed at him and proved mostly useless.

However, at a separate time, he went back to the moment of Superman fighting Doomsday in Metropolis, and he stopped time there, but only in reference to himself. His little chronal wristband can't bring an entire universe of time crashing to a halt. Only something akin to the worlogogg can do that.

Tom stated
Odin=Zeus so HP Doomsday loses.

Originally posted by Juntai
First, no one claimed BFR wouldn't work. We were discussing about someone -beating- Doomsday.

And Waverider's time manipulation is one of the ways in beating H/P infinite number of times, since this is the one way physical bricks cannot adapt against at all, not even once.

Second, he didn't touch Doomsday and stop time. He touched Superman and shared Doomsday's history with him after they were away from Doomsday. The time he did finally try to step in, he got his power backlashed at him and proved mostly useless.

I've seen this fight, but if this was Superman than I stand corrected, however I have to check this out once more.

However, at a separate time, he went back to the moment of Superman fighting Doomsday in Metropolis, and he stopped time there, but only in reference to himself. His little chronal wristband can't bring an entire universe of time crashing to a halt. Only something akin to the worlogogg can do that.

Maybe it can't, but Waverider could not really be destroyed, Waverider basically saved all the superheroes, just after Flash tried to do something about that rift, when Flash achieved ultimate speed-or something like that.

About what you wrote above:
Exactly what I'm talking about, Waverider used time manipulation to to back at the moment where Superman fought DD and could prevent H/P DD happening but he didn't want to-yes we are talking about beating H/P DD, and time manipulation is the one thing that H/P DD loses against-something that is naturally within Waverider's abilities.

Plus, Waverider might not freezed H/P DD in time, but he did every other superhero-that is shown in Waverider respect thread.

But Waverider did this many, many times like what he did with the moments and stopped them in time, and pulled them out of the time strem, pulled them in time stream and etc. like in Armageddon 2001 where he erased entire timeline-all these feats that Waverider has done many times would easily defeat H/P DD-this is why I said H/P DD cannot adapt to Waverider's time control/manipulation.
Plus H/P DD could not kill Waverider-if there is a comparison which one between Waverider and H/P DD, the answer is Waverider, however Waverider cannot defeat H/P DD by just blasting him with chronal energy, but he can by using the methods that are described above and those mathods described above were used by Waverider every single time.

Originally posted by Mister Supreme
And Waverider's time manipulation is one of the ways in beating H/P infinite number of times, since this is the one way physical bricks cannot adapt against at all, not even once.

I've seen this fight, but if this was Superman than I stand corrected, however I have to check this out once more.

Maybe it can't, but Waverider could not really be destroyed, Waverider basically saved all the superheroes, just after Flash tried to do something about that rift, when Flash achieved ultimate speed-or something like that.

About what you wrote above:
Exactly what I'm talking about, Waverider used time manipulation to to back at the moment where Superman fought DD and could prevent H/P DD happening but he didn't want to-yes we are talking about beating H/P DD, and time manipulation is the one thing that H/P DD loses against-something that is naturally within Waverider's abilities.

Plus, Waverider might not freezed H/P DD in time, but he did every other superhero-that is shown in Waverider respect thread.

But Waverider did this many, many times like what he did with the moments and stopped them in time, and pulled them out of the time strem, pulled them in time stream and etc. like in Armageddon 2001 where he erased entire timeline-all these feats that Waverider has done many times would easily defeat H/P DD-this is why I said H/P DD cannot adapt to Waverider's time control/manipulation.
Plus H/P DD could not kill Waverider-if there is a comparison which one between Waverider and H/P DD, the answer is Waverider, however Waverider cannot defeat H/P DD by just blasting him with chronal energy, but he can by using the methods that are described above and those mathods described above were used by Waverider every single time.

You were wrong on those points. Let it go.

Waverider already got owned when he tried to stop Doomsday.

But we aren't debating Waverider against Doomsday.

We're debating Zues, who has shown none of those.

Originally posted by Juntai
You were wrong on those points. Let it go.

Waverider already got owned when he tried to stop Doomsday.

But we aren't debating Waverider against Doomsday.

We're debating Zues, who has shown none of those.

Are you blind or a fanatic for Doomsday or what else?????

Why didn't you answer on all those examples-I gave you where it proves where Waverider defeats any DD-why do you simply
No Waverider was not owned-he was owned because he was fighting physically, like I said above, I gave you examples that prove that Waverider's time manipulation
You really are hard-headed please answer me on the following questions-I already gave you examples-how is DD going to stop Waverider from time traveling and nullifying everything.

I'm asking you not to ignore facts about time manipulation-PLEASE ANSWER FOLLOWING QUESTIONS: DD cannot prevent the creation of itself in the past, Waverider can because of the time manipulation, DD cannot adapt in stopping moments in space that are frozen in time, DD cannot destroy Waverider another fact, so what is wrong with you people, DD cannot manipulate just because he has supposedly adapted to Waverider's chronal energies-he can't adapt to whatever Waverider has shown to be able to do with time-all those feats you simply ignore over and over and over again-again I'm asking you why? I'm telling you facts that Waverider could do so much it doesn't matter that H/P DD has adapted to Waverider chronal energies:

Once again, PLEASE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS:
How is H/P DD (H/p DD-who has already, supposedly adapted to Waverider's chronal energies) adapt to:

a)time travel to the past before H/P DD has supposedly adapted to Waverider's chronal energies-and undos this with his time powers?

b)after he has done that, Waverider time travel in the past before H/P DD adapted to his chronal energies than freeze H/P DD in time and than transport H/P DD at the end of time-so YES, WAVERIDER CAN AND DOES BEAT H/P DD infinite number of times, because everything I wrote about Waverider is within his time powers/abilities-because it has been shown so many times, including in Zero Hour event.

c)how is H/P DD adapt to Waverider time travelling to the past just before H/P DD was created and Bertram who created it?

d) you already gave examples about going back in the moment where Superman and DD fought, anbd Waverider could have easily prevent Superman's death in the first place-and once again it proves that Waverider by using thse methods easily defeats H/P infinite number of time as much as it is needed-because we are talking about these methods-THAT YOU SIMPLY IGNORE-SO WHY DO YOU IGNORE THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE?
BECAUSE h/p dd CANNOT ADAPT TO THOSE METHODS I HAVE WRITTEN AND AGAIN, ALL OF THESE MENTIONED ABOVE METHODS ARE WITHIN Waverider's time control/manipulation abilities and Waverider has shown them all doing them multiple times in Zero Hour and elsewhere-and you keep saying that H/P DD still beats Waverider?

WHY? I just want to know why do you ignore facts, that's all.

Cheers and enjoy.

If Zeus has equal powers all the powers and all the abilities as Odin does, than Zeus obviously has those time abilities.

Fights take place in a neutral universe, bro

1. Self-Time travel is self-BFR - autoloss
2. In a neutral universe DD doesn't have an origin to go back to and tamper with
3. A neutral universe doesn't have all-consuming entropy at the end of time. That's DC

PS: I'm not taking sides here on who wins

Originally posted by Mister Supreme
Are you blind or a fanatic for Doomsday or what else?????

Why didn't you answer on all those examples-I gave you where it proves where Waverider defeats any DD-why do you simply
No Waverider was not owned-he was owned because he was fighting physically, like I said above, I gave you examples that prove that Waverider's time manipulation
You really are hard-headed please answer me on the following questions-I already gave you examples-how is DD going to stop Waverider from time traveling and nullifying everything.

[B]I'm asking you not to ignore facts about time manipulation-PLEASE ANSWER FOLLOWING QUESTIONS: DD cannot prevent the creation of itself in the past, Waverider can because of the time manipulation, DD cannot adapt in stopping moments in space that are frozen in time, DD cannot destroy Waverider another fact, so what is wrong with you people, DD cannot manipulate just because he has supposedly adapted to Waverider's chronal energies-he can't adapt to whatever Waverider has shown to be able to do with time-all those feats you simply ignore over and over and over again-again I'm asking you why? I'm telling you facts that Waverider could do so much it doesn't matter that H/P DD has adapted to Waverider chronal energies:

Once again, PLEASE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS:
How is H/P DD (H/p DD-who has already, supposedly adapted to Waverider's chronal energies) adapt to:

a)time travel to the past before H/P DD has supposedly adapted to Waverider's chronal energies-and undos this with his time powers?

b)after he has done that, Waverider time travel in the past before H/P DD adapted to his chronal energies than freeze H/P DD in time and than transport H/P DD at the end of time-so YES, WAVERIDER CAN AND DOES BEAT H/P DD infinite number of times, because everything I wrote about Waverider is within his time powers/abilities-because it has been shown so many times, including in Zero Hour event.

c)how is H/P DD adapt to Waverider time travelling to the past just before H/P DD was created and Bertram who created it?

d) you already gave examples about going back in the moment where Superman and DD fought, anbd Waverider could have easily prevent Superman's death in the first place-and once again it proves that Waverider by using thse methods easily defeats H/P infinite number of time as much as it is needed-because we are talking about these methods-THAT YOU SIMPLY IGNORE-SO WHY DO YOU IGNORE THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE?
BECAUSE h/p dd CANNOT ADAPT TO THOSE METHODS I HAVE WRITTEN AND AGAIN, ALL OF THESE MENTIONED ABOVE METHODS ARE WITHIN Waverider's time control/manipulation abilities and Waverider has shown them all doing them multiple times in Zero Hour and elsewhere-and you keep saying that H/P DD still beats Waverider?

WHY? I just want to know why do you ignore facts, that's all.

Cheers and enjoy.

If Zeus has equal powers all the powers and all the abilities as Odin does, than Zeus obviously has those time abilities. [/B]

It didn't happen. Despite all your hypotheticals Waverider was useless against Doomsday when it mattered.
As Booster Gold found out, moments like that were solidified moments in time and couldn't be changed. Even if Waverider didn't understand it yet.
No one said Doomsday couldn't be BFR'd, we've been discussing finding someone with the ability to put him down.

Odin's feats don't apply to Zues, and Zues has never shown this to be a tactic he would use.

A waverider fanboy? How curious.

Originally posted by Juntai
It didn't happen. Despite all your hypotheticals Waverider was useless against Doomsday when it mattered.
As Booster Gold found out, moments like that were solidified moments in time and couldn't be changed. Even if Waverider didn't understand it yet.
No one said Doomsday couldn't be BFR'd, we've been discussing finding someone with the ability to put him down.

Odin's feats don't apply to Zues, and Zues has never shown this to be a tactic he would use.

Well, that would explain everything, but only if it's true?
Can you confirm that Waverider's time control/manipulation and all those questions and examples on how would Waverider use time manipulation that I gave you in previous posts are also unchangeable-are you saying that Waverider cannot change events/any event whatsoever that happened and that is happening now or in the future; he can only time travel and and cannot change time and and also cannot change any of the events???? Juntai, can you confirm that, please????

If you can, than how it is possible all those feats made by Waverider in Waverider respect thread created by Galan007, like those in Zero Hour events and similar???
Can you please explain these questions?

I mean if Waverider can do all the stuff that he has done in Zero Hour and other time control/manipulation feats as shown in Waverider respect thread here on KMC forums, how exactly H/P DD is going to adapt to that?
Can you help me in understanding this???

I strongly think that first read and see Waverider respect thread on KMC forums, than answer-because I cannot see how can H/P DD do anything against those feats in Waverider respect thread here on KMC forums-based on everything that I saw I cannot actually believe that you think H/P DD will easily beat Waverider-I need more through explanations, please.

Yes, I ADMIT THAT I'M HARD HEADED PERSON, BUT I WANT TO END THIS DEBATE AND KNOW WHO AND WHAT IS WRONG AND WHO AND WHAT IS RIGHT-IF YOU LOOK and read at the KMC forums Waverider respect thread created by Galan007 how many truly very powerful feats Waverider has done, you will understand why I cannot believe why so many people believe that H/P DD would easily beat Waverider-but not kill him, because that's impossible.

However, if there is no other time trick/time manipulation that can actually work on H/P DD, than still the only thing that Waverider can do is to transport H/P DD to the very end of time, which is what actually happened-that's also defeat of H/P DD.

What is true and what is false-BIG THANKS IN ADVANCE.

Originally posted by Mister Supreme
[B]Well, that would explain everything, but only if it's true?
Can you confirm that Waverider's time control/manipulation and all those questions and examples on how would Waverider use time manipulation that I gave you in previous posts are also unchangeable-are you saying that Waverider cannot change events/any event whatsoever that happened and that is happening now or in the future; he can only time travel and and cannot change time and and also cannot change any of the events???? Juntai, can you confirm that, please????

If you can, than how it is possible all those feats made by Waverider in Waverider respect thread created by Galan007, like those in Zero Hour events and similar???
Can you please explain these questions?

I mean if Waverider can do all the stuff that he has done in Zero Hour and other time control/manipulation feats as shown in Waverider respect thread here on KMC forums, how exactly H/P DD is going to adapt to that?
Can you help me in understanding this???

I strongly think that first read and see Waverider respect thread on KMC forums, than answer-because I cannot see how can H/P DD do anything against those feats in Waverider respect thread here on KMC forums-based on everything that I saw I cannot actually believe that you think H/P DD will easily beat Waverider-I need more through explanations, please.

Yes, I ADMIT THAT I'M HARD HEADED PERSON, BUT I WANT TO END THIS DEBATE AND KNOW WHO AND WHAT IS WRONG AND WHO AND WHAT IS RIGHT-IF YOU LOOK and read at the KMC forums Waverider respect thread created by Galan007 how many truly very powerful feats Waverider has done, you will understand why I cannot believe why so many people believe that H/P DD would easily beat Waverider-but not kill him, because that's impossible.

However, if there is no other time trick/time manipulation that can actually work on H/P DD, than still the only thing that Waverider can do is to transport H/P DD to the very end of time, which is what actually happened-that's also defeat of H/P DD.

What is true and what is false-BIG THANKS IN ADVANCE. [/B]

Because here in KMC, we debate in character. CIS is still on.

That is to say, not what you think you'd do in a fight with Waverider's powers - but what Waverider would do with Waverider's powers.

He didn't do any of his big feats as shown in the respect thread when he fought DD. Perhaps he is just that stupid, or he doesn't want to mess with the timestream - but for whatever reason, he did NOT do any of his other feats, opting instead to do what he did against DD.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because here in KMC, we debate in character. CIS is still on.

That is to say, not what you think you'd do in a fight with Waverider's powers - but what Waverider would do with Waverider's powers.

He didn't do any of his big feats as shown in the respect thread when he fought DD. Perhaps he is just that stupid, or he doesn't want to mess with the timestream - but for whatever reason, he did NOT do any of his other feats, opting instead to do what he did against DD.

That only proves my points and my points still stand: it means Waverider could do all those feats, but some for some reason he didn't want to why that is a mystery-but it also means that Waverider could easily defeat H/P DD anytime he wants; it doesn't matter if H/P DD has adapted to his chronal energies or not, because all those feats on Waverider respect thread show his true time powers and what he is capable of, but for some reason Waverider didn't want to use his time powers on H/P DD.

Yeah, that sounds really reaching.

Originally posted by Mister Supreme
That only means Waverider could do all those feats, but some for some reason he didn't want to why that is a mystery-but it also means that Waverider could easily defeat H/P DD anytime he wants, but for some reason he didn't want to.

Yup.

I mean, Flash could easily go lightspeed in every match and vibrate people's hearts out, or timetravel to kill them as babies, or use Infinite Mass Punches, etc etc.

Ok people, here are the finalised rules as regards PIS, CIS, and everything related to it.

PIS is, as always, off unless the thread starter says it's ON.

CIS, as was said before, is now a more diverse term, but is not as vague as before.

While CIS still exists in the form of characters like Rhino (who are just too stupid to know better), it also exists in one other form.

This is known as Character Inhibited Power. This applies to characters that have intelligence, like the Silver Surfer, Superman, and so on and so forth.

As Bada said:

"It's a self imposed limitation in certain circumstances which there is concern for civilians and buildings for the most part. It's not stupidity, it's a limitation set until the threat exceeds a certain threshold."

What this means is that people like the Surfer and Superman and so on will not use the full extent of their powers if it will endanger civilians. It doesn't, though, mean they will fight like idiots. The character's personality is an integral part of the match and dictates how they will perform. This is the crux of the rules we've come up with. It doesn't come down to powers, it comes down to the man or woman that weilds them.

In accordance with this, several factors come in to play in debates:

The Opponent, Basic Information, the Arena and the Character's Personality and Experience

Those four are key.

Example:

If Martian Manhunter fights say, Juggernaut.

MM doesn't personally know Juggernaut (Opponent). So he has Basic Information. This is categorised as being what the general public would know about the Juggernaut. It goes by averages. If that average man or woman on the street knows that Juggernaut is super strong, then MM knows. The average man or woman doesn't know, however, that the Juggernaut is weak against psionics. J'onn would approach with caution, not knowing whether Juggernaut was in his weight class, and not knowing the full extent of the man's powers.

However. If Martian Manhunter went up against Amazo, he would know to go for broke right at the start, because he KNOWS Amazo (Personality and Experience). He will use his speed, his strength, his shapeshifting. This is because if he knows what it takes to bring down Amazo, or he believes his standard attacks won't work. If J'onn was fighting Juggernaut, there would come a point when he would realise that normal attacks won't work, and would up his game. Any character that doesn't suffer from Rhino-esque stupidity is capable of this. Even with this, though, the Arena comes in to play. If civilians are in danger, J'onn won't shapeshift in to a fire breathing dragon. Juggernaut on the other hand doesn't care, so wouldn't hesitate to toss cars and trucks full of civilians at the Martian.

Examples:

Thor knows he can't out-brawl Hulk, so uses exotic powers sooner than he would against the likes of Superman, as Superman is an unknown to him.

Superman would go all out against Doomsday or Despero because he knows how powerful they are. Against the Hulk, he's going to take a few punches before realising he'll have to use something rather than slugging it out. He won't bathe the street in heat vision either, because there are civilians nearby.

It ALL comes down to the CHARACTER, not the POWERSET.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yup.

I mean, Flash could easily go lightspeed in every match and vibrate people's hearts out, or timetravel to kill them as babies, or use Infinite Mass Punches, etc etc.

Yes, your points are 100% correct and thanks for those quotes; we both understand each others now, it's so sad how Flash, Waverider and all other characters are easily forgetting all of their abilities which would enable them to defeat H/P DD very easily.

Originally posted by Mister Supreme
Yes, we both understand each others now, it' said how Flash, Waverider and all other characters are easily forgetting all of their abilities which would enable them to defeat H/P DD very easily.

That's why we have BattleZones - where we take control of each character.

Martian Manhunter is another obvious choice.

I mean, it's like asking why didn't Superman dig a gigantic piece of land out from under Doomsday, and throw him into orbit? By feats, Supes has easily got the speed and strength to do it.

But he didn't.

We argue characters, not powersets. It makes things much more interesting and nuanced, rather than just relying on respect threads and power ratings.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's why we have BattleZones - where we take control of each character.

Martian Manhunter is another obvious choice.

I mean, it's like asking why didn't Superman dig a gigantic piece of land out from under Doomsday, and throw him into orbit? By feats, Supes has easily got the speed and strength to do it.

But he didn't.

We argue characters, not powersets. It makes things much more interesting and nuanced, rather than just relying on respect threads and power ratings.

What about Superman for example where is Superman here, what he has done so far vs. other characters that have done so far (Flash, Waverider, Martian Manhunter and etc.)-who would than win, this is why it's good your brought Martian Manhunter and other superheroes.

Originally posted by Mister Supreme
What about Superman for example where is Superman here, what he has done so far vs. other characters that have done so far-who would than win, this is why it's good your brought Martian Manhunter and other superheroes.

What do you mean?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What do you mean?

I meant based on Superman's highest showings could Flash for example defeat Superman (highest showings of both characters and vice versa) and the question for Waverider and Martian Manhunter?